MD, PhD, FMedSci, FRSB, FRCP, FRCPEd.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is the son of assassinated Senator Robert. F. Kennedy, and the nephew of President John F. Kennedy. He is famous – or rather infamous – for being outspoken in his opposition to vaccines, including the COVID-19 vaccine. Here is the relevant section from Wikipedia:

During the COVID-19 pandemic, Kennedy promoted multiple conspiracy theories related to COVID-19 including false claims both Anthony Fauci and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation are trying to profit off a vaccine, and suggesting that Bill Gates would cut off access to money of people who do not get vaccinated, allowing them to starve. In August 2020, Kennedy appeared in an hour-long interview with Alec Baldwin on Instagram, where he touted a number of incorrect and misleading claims about vaccines and public health measures related to the COVID-19 pandemic. Baldwin was criticized by public health officials and scientists for allowing Kennedy’s proclamations to go unchallenged. Kennedy has promoted misinformation about the COVID-19 vaccine, falsely suggesting that it contributed to the death of 86-year-old Hank Aaron and others. In February 2021 his Instagram account was blocked for “repeatedly sharing debunked claims about the coronavirus or vaccines.” The Center for Countering Digital Hate identified Kennedy as one of the main propagators of conspiracy theories about Bill Gates and 5G phone technology. His success as a conspiracy theorist increased his social media impact considerably; between the Spring and the Fall of 2020, his Instagram account grew from 121,000 followers to 454,000.

In November 2021, Kennedy’s book The Real Anthony Fauci: Bill Gates, Big Pharma, and the Global War on Democracy and Public Health was published wherein he alleges Fauci sabotaged treatments for AIDS, violated federal laws, and conspired with Bill Gates and social media companies such as Facebook to suppress any information about COVID-19 cures, to leave vaccines as the only options to fight the pandemic.[217][218] In the book, Kennedy calls Fauci “a powerful technocrat who orchestrated and executed the historic 2020 coup against Western democracy”. He claims Fauci and Bill Gates plan to prolong the pandemic and exaggerate its effects, promoting expensive vaccinations for the benefit of “a powerful vaccination cartel”.[219] The Neue Zürcher Zeitung has said of the book “…polemics alternate with chapters that pedantically seek to substantiate Kennedy’s accusations with numerous quotations and studies.”[219]

Kennedy wrote the foreword for Plague of Corruption (2020), a book by former research scientist and anti-vaccine conspiracy theorist Judy Mikovits.[220]

Kennedy appeared as a speaker at the partially violent demonstration in Berlin on August 29, 2020, where populist groups called for an end to restrictions caused by COVID-19.[221][222] His YouTube account was removed in late September 2021 for breaking the company’s new policies on vaccine misinformation

A recent analysis centered on 812,000 anti-vaccine posts shared on Facebook or Twitter between February 1 and March 16, 2021. Two-thirds of the posts were shared by what CCDH calls the “Disinformation Dozen”:

  • Joseph Mercola,
  • Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.,
  • Ty and Charlene Bollinger,
  • Sherri Tenpenny,
  • Rizza Islam,
  • Rashid Buttar,
  • Erin Elizabeth,
  • Sayer Ji,
  • Kelly Brogan,
  • Christiane Northrup,
  • Ben Tapper,
  • Kevin Jenkins.

Last week, Kennedy Jr. has surpassed himself. Addressing an anti-vaccination rally in Washington, DC on Sunday, Kennedy was reported to compare COVID-19 vaccination mandates to the Holocaust, saying that “Even in Hitler’s Germany… you could hide in the attic like Anne Frank did.”

The reaction of the official memorial of Auschwitz, the largest Nazi concentration camp in which more than 1 million people were murdered, was quick and (to my mind) justified: they accused the Kennedy Jr of “moral and intellectual decay

212 Responses to The ‘moral and intellectual decay’ of COVID disinformants

  • Kennedy was reported to compare COVID-19 vaccination mandates to the Holocaust,

    This is a “normal” claim by many anti-vaxers in the USA. If we look around we can find photos of anti-vaxers even wearing yellow stars. Kennedy should know better but he seems to be so far down the rabbit-hole that rational thought eludes him.

    IIRC his family has issued a statement divorcing themselves from his craziness.

    • it might be normal – yet, it makes me sick!

      • Dear Edzard, would you dare to take a closer look at the analyses of Prof. Dr. Kuhbandner from the University of Regensburg?

        He assumes a direct link between currently observed excess mortality and the vaccinations, and the first refined after analyses seem to confirm the link. The work fits so well to the topic of the blog post, doesn’t it?

        https://osf.io/5gu8a/

        • Christof Kuhbandner is known in Germany as a Corona denier. His “studies” ans “explanations” are for teh trash can.

          Go play somewhere else, @DanLucas.

          • Alright, could you pls point me to the major flaws in his work, i am happy to learn from you where he went off track.

          • Dan Lucas,
            Of course there is going to a ‘link’ between vaccinations and excess mortality, but not for the reason you think.

            The ‘link’ is they are happening at the same time but there is no causation. You and that alleged doctor have for the classic Logical Fallacy, post hoc ergo proctor hoc, this then that.

            The vast majority of deaths are those who are not vaccinated, as COVID-19 inevitably sweeps through, so they are reaping what they have sown, by the denial of scientific evidence. That it coincides with the roll-out of vaccinations is also inevitable.

            See, it isn’t that hard after all.

        • DanLucas:

          Dear Edzard, would you dare to take a closer look at the analyses of Prof. Dr. Kuhbandner from the University of Regensburg?

          I’m not Edzard, and the paper is way out of my area, but how about:

          It’s not published in a reputable, peer reviewed journal.

          It’s published in a language that’s not likely to attract a large readership unless it has particularly strong results, in which case it would be probably be published in a reputable peer reviewed journal anyway, and most likely in English.

          Prof. Dr Kuhbander is a psychologist, so epidemiology is probably a bit out of his area, too.
          https://www.uni-regensburg.de/humanwissenschaften/psychologie-vi/lehrstuhl/prof-dr-christof-kuhbandner

          The single paper in his publications list that mentions COVID in its title is:
          Kuhbandner, C., & Homburg, S. (2020). Commentary: Estimating the effects of non-pharmaceutical interventions on COVID-19 in Europe. Frontiers in Medicine, 7: 580361

          The paper that DanLucas linked to, such as it is, is: Prof. Dr. Christof Kuhbandner, “Der Anstieg der Übersterblichkeit im zeitlichen Zusammenhang mit den COVID-Impfungen” (roughly, “The rise in excess mortality in temporal association with COVID vaccinations”).

          • Thanks for your take. You’re right, I would nevertheless be curious to hear what Edzard has to say about these thoughts and the potential weaknesses of his approach. A similar paper by another Prof. was criticized because of the dependency on changing a variable, but the hint went in the same direction as memory serves.

            May you be well.

      • In my opinion, anyone who compares measures to combat a deadly pandemic to the deliberate and highly organized mass murder of millions of Jews, Roma and other groups cannot be considered sane any more. As in: I can’t even begin to imagine what must be going on in these people’s minds.

        If there is any group causing lots of totally unnecessary deaths, it is people like Kennedy and his followers, who try to convince others that they should not protect themselves against a disease that has already killed millions.

        It is most definitely NOT the scientists, doctors and governments around the world who do their stinking best to prevent sickness and death as much as possible.

    • The same is true in Germany. Many Corona deniers and anti-vaxers from the right-wing political spectrum compare the protective measures against Corona with Nazi methods or equate doctors who vaccinate with Joseph Mengele.

      Some people even wore a Jewish badge with “unvaccinated” embroidered on it. However, since these acts are prosecuted by the police and punished by the courts, only a few people dare to do so.

  • EE: Addressing an anti-vaccination rally in Washington, DC on Sunday, Kennedy was reported to compare COVID-19 vaccination mandates to the Holocaust, saying that “Even in Hitler’s Germany… you could hide in the attic like Anne Frank did.”

    Actually, I think he is saying vaccine mandates could be worse because with today’s technology one will not be able to hide from government mandates unlike how some were able to escape Hitler’s “mandates”.

  • You vax-lovers have been a bubble so long, literally and figuratively, that you have forgotten that people can disagree about science and politics. You take every disagreement as some outlandish conspiracy theory or anti-science thought. I recommend that you actually read what RFK, jr has written instead of reading About what he has written.

    • I havent read RFK jr., but i totally agree with your first statement. Great Barrington Declaration!

    • Robert F. Kennedy Jr. promotes conspiracy theories related to COVID-19. He is a despicable loon.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy_Jr.#COVID-19

    • ”You vax-lovers have been a bubble so long, literally and figuratively, that you have forgotten that people can disagree about science and politics.”

      Science is just a method to investigate and understand the world that we live in. You can certainly disagree about the findings of science as much as you want, it doesn’t make you right, nor in line with the evidence.

      As someone once said : ”You can choose to ignore (or in your case, disagree) gravity, you’re still bound by it”.

    • Roger said:

      that you have forgotten that people can disagree about science and politics. You take every disagreement as some outlandish conspiracy theory or anti-science thought.

      @Roger

      Science disagrees with me on this and a lot of other things, but that doesn’t stop me from believing that earth is flat. If one travels far enough, they will reach the edge and I have been trying to do just that since the last 5 years and I haven’t reached the edge of the earth yet. I will be sure to send you a post card when I reach my destination.

  • If anyone on this site has doubts that Covid19, which HAS a 97% or better survival rate and so NOT a ‘deadly disease’, was a planned and executed scare-scam whose purpose was to get people panicked enough about losing their worthless, pitiful material-bound totally selfish lives to willfully get INJECTED with a likewise bio-engineered highly toxic weapon, for which readily available an inexpensive over-the-counter treatments were suppressed, including Ivermectin with a 90 YEAR success/cure rate, and Hydroxychloroquine which YOU can make at home with 3 Grapefruit and 5 Lemons, for which the owner-managers were murdered when their factory was blown up.

    This needless, senseless attack on the global populace has resulted in hundreds of thousands of needless injury and deaths and it has been proven that the jabs are lab-designed deliberate instruments of genocide and control. Go and listen to yesterday’s Congressional hearing held by Senator Ron Johnson. @ https://thehighwire.com, Second Opinion video. After you watch it tell everyone you love and or care a tiny bit, and all of you contact ALL of your/their Congress members and demand they get on board with Senator Johnson in public now or they WILL lose your vote.

    Tens of thousands of our fellow global citizens are STILL being coerced or forced to get jabbed, and dying or becoming harmed for life every day. Stop this Covid19 tyranny and we are well on the way to taking our country back.

    • today we have 5.6 million COVID death worldwide;
      “NOT a deadly disease”???

      • However, i think it is only fair to mention that there are four different coronaviruses known to be rampant among humans and that, worldwide, up to 650,000 people may die from the flu each year. If one then considers that PCR cannot distinguish between complete genome and fragments, between the ability and inability to replicate, one must take into account that the number contains false-positive results, since one probably often did not retest in the lab!!! One should also consider the noteworthy monetary incentives in the operational business of the clinics etc. that may be driving the number additionally, and so on.

        • @DanLucas,
          being a molecular biologist for more than half of my life, I have done hundreds of PCRs/RT-PCRs in the lab (amongst other stuff, of course).
          Let me point out that you use the term “false-positive results” in this context incorrectly. The false-positive rate of the RT-PCT test used for detection of the SARS-CoV-2 virus RNA is close to 0% in a modern lab. Therefore, if your PCR test is positive while the virus is circulating, it is extremely likely that your nose/throat contains the SARS-CoV-2 virus RNA. The so-called Ct-value of the RT-PCR reaction can even indicate the amount of viral RNA genomes that were present in your sample.
          Since only complete viral genomes are replicated within your body (not fragments thereof), a positive PCR test from a modern lab indicates a viral infection with an extremely high likelihood.
          The PCR test does not, however, provide concrete information about the severity of the symptoms that you will encounter.
          But for estimating the number of viral infections in a population, false-positive PCR tests are not relevant.

          If you have further questions regarding PCRs or molecular biology in general, feel free to ask.

          • @Jashak

            As a bioinformatician, I work on post-sequencing analysis of covid-19 positive samples. For majority of samples that test positive in a RT-PCR test, most modern labs can sequence and assemble full SARS-CoV2 genomes. There is an actively maintained database of SARS-CoV2 genomes called GISAID: https://www.gisaid.org/. As of today, there are 7.5 million genomes in GISAID, these were isolated from patients all over the world and these data are used in the surveillance of variants: https://nextstrain.org/ncov/gisaid/global.

          • @R. Daneel:
            thanks for the info, I came across the nextstrain webpage before, indeed cool stuff!

          • Thank you for your answer. However, I also had in mind the possibility that people are treated as false positives after a single PCR, then die due to other circumstances and then still enter the statistics, just as an example, etc. and I also thought of monetary incentives, with at the same time often underfunded clinics and all other beneficiaries who can also capitalize on a crisis.

            I am ceratinly not an expert in the field, but according to what I read, three primers, which describe not sufficient of the genome, can mean too little specificity, which is contrary to the detection of a genuinely infected person and results in false positive results, because the test also reacts to non-infectious viral fragments that are in the body. End primers would be needed and the ORF1 gene. So, reducing to only the E gene was/is apparently common and the WHO standard protocol gives comparatively large leeway, so even the labs would not always look on multiple genes. I think even nowadays you can have 1- 2 millions test a week, say in Germany and there is rather a normal routine that does not always include multiple PCR testing and sequencing.

            Then you also have to consider the usual laboratory tests, not all of which may be used for personal diagnosis, but only for research purposes, and of which the specificity and thus potential false positive results seem unclear. The devices are also not standardized by different manufacturers, as investigations showed and varied between 0% and 10% false positives. Also, the labs seem to work with different standards. So it seems to me that there are sufficient poetntial weaknesses and possibly motivation to generate numbers and one can assume at least a certain percentage of false numbers.

            Thanks for your openness.

          • @DanLucas,
            you bring up several issues. Since I have only limited time, I will stick to the specificity and quality of the RT-PCR tests.
            *The tests used in professional labs today (e.g. in Germany) are of course validated to be specific and only detect the circulating SARS-CoV-2. So don´t worry, the primer pairs used in the RT-PCRs ARE specific.
            *If a PCR result is unexpected (e.g. a problem with the control reactions occured), samples will be re-tested internally by the lab, before the results are handed out.
            *Furthermore, to my knowledge, all professional diagnostic labs in Germany have to prove the quality of their work on a regular basis by having to pass “blinded tests”, which are conducted by a governmental agency.

            So rest assured that the PCR tests are extremely accurate – don´t trust rumours that you come across on the internet that say otherwise.

          • I appreciate your perspective and please don’t get me wrong.I don’t imply anything in principle, and I assume that the laboratories work conscientiously, but I think we have to admit that the test waves are particularly demanding and high standards cannot always be maintained, which, by the way, was also admitted upon request. This was a laboratory in Hamburg, Germany, which performs about 80,000 tests per week (i.e., no multiple gene sites and not always multiple tests after positive results.) Numerous experts have strongly criticized the WHO protocol and criticized the worldwide pair-priming as unusable. The thing is, even as a conscientious laboratory worker, we and our work are always dependent on other factors that we cannot see through, be it the quality of different product batches, the economic interests and potential criminal energy of others that may be involved in the process, etc., in a global crisis management with endless players, we can even see less on the bottom of things. From this point of view, caution is at least understandable, i think.

          • I said no need to send me your paypal so there is your answer.
            Many many doctors are claiming cold showers can boost the immune system
            Many are claiming that mouthwashes and gargles are preventatives.
            Maybe not as good as your tinfoil hat….
            And again, you all that think the vaccine is the holy grail, but, and there is always a but,
            there are other methods plus my money is on doctors like Dr Haiden and Dr Bowden who are either lying or have treated over 6000 patients over Dr Fauci.

          • “you all that think the vaccine is the holy grail”
            this is a remarkably stupid statement!
            nobody thinks vaccines are ‘the holy grail’. but the consensus is that they are our best option.

          • @Jeffrey Bloom

            Yes, you got one thing right for sure. My tinfoil hats are better than suggestions of many many doctors. Thanks to all those right-wing websites you tend to peruse, my hats are selling like gangbusters and that is all the evidence one needs.

            I don’t know who those two doctors are and why you are telling me all that stuff. I have already told you that I don’t care for all that BS, yet you still lump me with rest of the vaccine sheeple. For someone as intelligent as you are, you don’t seem to understand simple concepts.

            You haven’t really answered my question. I will paraphrase for you again: you say you respect other people’s decision to get vaccinate, then why come here, and post right-wing stuff? Unless you have a hidden agenda. Are you trying to project your hatred of Fauci on to other doctors and researchers by coming here and trolling them?

          • the economic interests and potential criminal energy of others that may be involved in the process, etc., in a global crisis management with endless players, we can even see less on the bottom of things. From this point of view, caution is at least understandable, i think.

            Yes, money corrupts everything DanLucas! Economic interests breed endless players with nefarious ideas. I found it the hard way when I purchased my first home in the suburbs of Atlanta. The real estate agent is working for commission, the seller is making a huge profit, the bank is giving you loan on which the shareholders are making money, the mortgage company, the insurance company and so on. All these players are in it for the money and who knows what kinds of criminal energy they are bringing because there are large sums of money being exchanged. Same with buying cars, motorbikes, groceries, medicine etc. There are endless list of people trying to profit off you every where you turn. It is ever worse when it comes to healthcare and science and you know that already.

            Therefore, I said goodbye to this modern world and moved to a forest and established a money and science free commune. People in our commune trade goods and services, no money exchanges hands and those are the rules. Moreover, we don’t believe in science or modern medicine. We have a witch “doctor” that “treats” people with whatever they can find in the forest, including leaves, bark, roots, dirt, animal feces etc. Everything is natural and free of harmful toxins and chemicals. If someone has an untreatable ailment, we put them out to pasture because they will drag rest of the commune down.

            I have been reading your posts and you seem like a great candidate for our budding little commune. You cannot bring anything from the modern world, when you enter our commune, you get to toss away everything including your cell phone, watch, clothes. You enter our commune butt naked, and we will give you a set of clothes made from animal skins. Would you please join our commune, DanLucas? I will guarantee you that you will meet a lot of kindred spirits.

          • @DanLucas,
            again, you bring up several issue and again, I only have limited time to answer.
            😊
            You say : ”Numerous experts have strongly criticized the WHO protocol and criticized the worldwide pair-priming as unusable.”
            Could you please provide a concrete reference? Who are these “experts”?
            The good thing about science is that you do not have to trust (self-proclaimed) experts. I am just a regular molecular biologist, but it is not difficult for me to check for myself if the primers are valid or not, just by looking at the published data. And even if the manufacturer would not provide info about the specific DNA sequence of the primer pairs, it is possible to independently verify if the test works as they should. This is called validation, and as I mentioned, the RT-PCR tests that are used ARE of course validated.

            Next, you say “(…) we and our work are always dependent on other factors that we cannot see through, be it the quality of different product batches, the economic interests and potential criminal energy of others that may be involved in the process, etc., in a global crisis management with endless players, we can even see less on the bottom of things.“

            It is difficult to argue against such claims, because they are not falsifiable. Sounds a bit like a conspiracy theory to me, which I would need evidence for, before I would believe that there is one.
            But even if there was a big conspiracy, this would not mean that batches of the chemicals that we use can not be verified. As I said: the good thing about science is that we can rely on experiments & data, not on any claims. And we would easily find out from the data of our control experiments if batches of the PCR-ingredients would not work.

            May I ask what profession you work in?

          • @Jashak

            sorry, I saw you response just recently.

            As I mentioned I impute nothing in general, but there seems to be some questionable connections and interest conflicts involved. The owner of TIBmolbiol who produces PCR test kits in collaboration with Roche Pharma designed the test protocol together with Dr. Drosten etc. who works for the Charite in Berlin, which works together with a certain profit oriented laboratory doing RT-PCR diagnostics, what seems at least questionable.

            The design of the test-protocol led to an article, which was submitted to and published in “Eurosurveillance”, with an unprecedented speed, unusual or even impossible for peer-review proper. And as it turned out Dr. Drosten himself is part of the editor team of that magazine. So, he and others were criticized. He and TIBmolbiol were apparently already involved and profited in different ways back in the day through PCRs when swine flu was around. And there is much more to it, which I cannot and want not to go into. One can go into patents of the companies involved and into technical details of the “LightMix/Modular SARS/Wuhan CoV e-Gen” tests of which apparently not everyone was suitable for usage, etc.

            Anyhow here is the criticism, which points to major flaws in the design, you’re the professional, I am not:

            https://cormandrostenreview.com/report/

            Here David Crowe raises interesting points on the matter of PCR testing and the fundamental lack of virus purification, etc.:

            https://theinfectiousmyth.com/book/CoronavirusPanic.pdf

            https://theinfectiousmyth.com/coronavirus/FDATestSummary.pdf

            My graduate training focused in particular healthcare management among other things, I studied also PH in part including health care systems, specifics of medicinal law, etc., however, I have a completely different orientation today, but, some affinity and interest still remains.

            All the best.

          • Here David Crowe raises interesting points

            As per David Corwe’s website:

            There is considerable scientific evidence that these diseases do not just have non-infectious co-factors, but that they are environmental in nature, not infectious. In fact, with viruses, it is possible to question their very existence (also in Spanish). The book “The Infectious Myth” will investigate provide the scientific evidence that the normally accepted infectious cause is not, in fact, valid and, in will identify more plausible environmental causes.

            I never heard of David Crowe but browsing his website he appears to be a COVID denialist, HIV denialist and a virus denialist in general and all in all a proponent of terrain theory (aka germ theory denialist) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germ_theory_denialism. Although he has an undergrad degree in biology, he is a telecom consultant and a software developer, according to his obituary page: https://mhfh.com/tribute/details/31155/David-CROWE/obituary.html

            He was well respected as a telecommunications consultant and had been involved in software development since the late 1970s. He had written extensively on these topics and had been called upon numerous times as a telecom expert witness.

            Apparently, he was writing a book denying germ theory since 2006 but unfortunately passed away. In short, David Crowe is like a flat earther in the field of biology.

            @DanLucas The last two links you posted are absolute garbage. You expect us to believe that some random no-name telecommunications guys has the scoop on all things PCR and viruses? As usual you post the absolute worst of the worst bullshit one can find on the internet, you must have some real talent in dredging it up. What are you going to post next, flat earther stuff?

          • @ R. DaneeL

            Dont get ahead of yourself here! This is perhaps technically a bit beyond your capacity?

            You involved in sequencing should actually know better, instead you prefer to bash the person without looking at what he said. He raises correct points, such as that the test is not binary as often presented, what might be trivial to you, but look at that: a world expert on PCR testing, Professor Stephen Bustin together with David Crowe, walks you through the steps, Enjoy!!!

            https://podimo.com/en/shows/5b4e3ddd-cae9-4f09-83fe-0082d000ed11/episode/61d552fa-6da0-4035-991d-161e6b72649f

          • DanLucas says

            Dont get ahead of yourself here! This is perhaps technically a bit beyond your capacity?

            Really, DanLucas? You want me to listen to someone who denies the existence of viruses in 21st century? If this were 17th century, we could debate about the root cause of infectious diseases or the flatness of earth. Unfortunately, for you the year we live in is 2022. If you want to stay willfully ignorant and/or listen to batshit crazy nutjobs who deny overwhelming scientific evidence, that is your choice.

        • @DanLucas

          If one then considers that PCR cannot distinguish between complete genome and fragments, between the ability and inability to replicate, one must take into account that the number contains false-positive results, since one probably often did not retest in the lab!!!

          What you are saying makes absolutely no sense. It is like criticizing cars for not having the capability to fly. Cars are not designed to fly, and PCR is not designed to distinguish between viral genomes. DNA sequencing and subsequent genome assembly process will allow one to detect viral genomes in a sample. SARS-CoV2 genomes are different enough from other coronaviruses (and wildly different from that of flu viruses) that assigning taxonomy to a DNA sequence isolated from a covid-19 patient is a trivial task. If a complete genome is isolated then it is a slam dunk case, even a partial genome fragment (depending on its length) will provide a high degree of certainty w.r.t taxonomic assignment.

          DNA sequencing is expensive than running a PCR test, and PCR is accurate that it is not necessary to sequence every sample to determine if it is positive for SARS-Cov2 or not. A subset of samples are sequenced to detect emerging variants and determine the prevalence of known variants.

          • Regarding your link, you’ve kindly provided: This analysis can be interpreted in a number of ways, as the author acknowledges, and he points to the many possible stumbling variables, while his interpretation is obvious. Nonetheless he states: “While noting the caveat that it is not possible to draw rigorous causal conclusions about vaccine effects on death from these observational data…”

            True, he puts things in perspective providing good angles and cautions against jumping to conclusions, which is definitely important and valuable. It would have been great in his approach to take into account the different types of vaccines used during each roll out etc., which might be crucial to drawing conclusions, also when comparing mortality to subsequent cohorts, as the author does. It would be best to break this down even to the batch number of the different vaccines. Selection bias may be one good reason for the increased mortality of 18-39 year olds > 21 days after second dose vs. unvaccinated, which look pretty bad, but others would be conceivable maybe endurance sports, etc. typical of this cohort in particular myocarditis, which is likely in young men after Pfizer-BioNTech, apparently often mild but sometimes fatal, and the risk increases with each further dose substantially, a factor which could probably drive the vulnerability of this cohort:

            https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2109730

            That AEs increase overall, the more doses one gets is reasonable. Prof. Arne Burkhardt also considers it possible that AEs such as the autoimmune attacks, he has observed in post-mortem cases triggered by the vaccines and often very likely the cause of death, are a regular feature in all vaccinated people, but most people’s immune system down-regulates them and keeps them at bay. So these AEs may occur widely but escape any diagnosis and go unnoticed. The time spans here are still short a cumulative effect may very well occur over time if vaccinations are given repeatedly.That mortality returns after some time to the unvaccinated level one would expect.

            The main problem remains that the safety data to make an informed decision is very poor and should have been available long ago, and the fact that the governments have not ordered cohort studies is scandalous. The author cannot rule out the possibility that vaccination is causing the excess mortality in this cohort. I would appreciate thoughts on Prof. Kuhbandner’s approach.

          • Just so everyone understands, we are talking about this blog post by Prof. Morris: https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/assessing-updated-uk-ons-data-on-covid-19-non-covid-19-deaths-split-by-vaccination-status-and-age where he analyzed UK ONS data.

            Nonetheless he states: “While noting the caveat that it is not possible to draw rigorous causal conclusions about vaccine effects on death from these observational data…”

            Yes, he is acknowledging that one can only go so far at drawing conclusions given the data he is working with is observational in nature. No surprise there.

            It would have been great in his approach to take into account the different types of vaccines used during each roll out etc., …”

            Did you actually think that vaccine type information is available in UK ONS data that Prof. Morris is working with and that he chose to ignore it? He provided a link to the UK ONS raw data set he is working with; did you bother to download it and have look at it? Did you see the vaccination numbers split by the type of vaccine administered?
            If you have bothered to look at the raw data, you would understand that vaccine type information is not available in the dataset, therefore your suggestion that he should have included that in his analysis does not hold water.

            Selection bias may be one good reason for the increased mortality of 18-39 year olds > 21 days after second dose vs. unvaccinated, which look pretty bad, but others would be conceivable maybe endurance sports, etc. . typical of this cohort in particular myocarditis, which is likely in young men after Pfizer-BioNTech,

            Increased mortality of 18-39 year olds > 21 days after second dose is only 1.6x-1.9x higher compared to that of unvaccinated. No, it doesn’t look that bad, if you consider the selection bias and small sample size. As you are already aware of Prof. Morris’s warning that the data is observational in nature and that one cannot draw any causal conclusions. However, that doesn’t stop you from claiming (without providing any evidence) that a small spike in mortality could be due to myocarditis from Pfizer jab. Even if you try to come up with evidence to support your claims, you cannot because the data doesn’t include the type of vaccines administered, and there is no way for you to know how many 18-39 year olds got the Pfizer jab.

            Regarding the NEJM article: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2109730

            Out of 5.1 million that received Pfizer jab, they found 136 cases of myocarditis out of which 129 are mild cases. Among the remaining 7 severe cases, one person dies. That is a very tiny amount of risk. You know what else causes myocarditis at a much higher rates than vaccines? Covid-19 infection!!
            https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.23.21260998v1

            Prof. Arne Burkhardt also considers it possible that AEs such as the autoimmune attacks…..

            I suppose you are talking about this: https://doctors4covidethics.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/end-covax.pdf by Prof. Burkhardt and Prof. Bhakdi. I skimmed the document and found that they mostlu make evidence free claims based on examining just 15 patients. It is outright bonkers that Krisch has been promoting this piece of crap “study” as proof that “93% of deaths that occur after inoculation”. Reuters already debunked that bullshit: https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-coronavirus-vaccines/fact-check-a-four-page-yet-to-be-peer-reviewed-paper-is-not-proof-that-covid-19-vaccines-cause-93-of-deaths-that-occur-after-inoculation-idUSL1N2TN1PP.

            The main problem remains that the safety data to make an informed decision is very poor and should have been available long ago,

            During phase 3 trial, tens of thousands of people get the vaccine and are monitored for AEs. For AEs like myocarditis that occur at a very low frequency, millions of people had to be vaccinated first before anyone can gather safety data. How long do you think it takes to vaccinate millions, DanLucas? It appears that you expect all safety data to be made available as soon as vaccines are rolledout, which is impossible. Now millions of people are vaccinated, and we have the safety data, but that doesn’t satisfy you because all you are seeing is one myocarditis death among 5.1 million vaccinations. You probably take a taxi, bus, train, or flight. Do you think about risk of death before you get on one? If you step out of your house, there is a small chance you may get hit with a lightning or a plane transporting anvils may blow up mid-air and rain anvils that may kill you. Do you think of those possibilities when you step out of the safety of your home?

            and the fact that the governments have not ordered cohort studies is scandalous.

            Of course, there is a conspiracy behind every stone you turn, DanLucas. Maybe you been consuming way too many magic shrooms that you procured from friendly shamans in your neighborhood.

            I would appreciate thoughts on Prof. Kuhbandner’s approach.

            No thanks. I don’t comprehend German, even if I did I will not spend my time reading crap written by unqualified covid deniers: https://edzardernst.com/2022/01/the-moral-and-intellectual-decay-of-covid-disinformants/#comment-136786

          • R. Daneel:

            The main problem remains that the safety data to make an informed decision is very poor and should have been available long ago

            The added risk of myocarditis in young men is recognised in the advice available to everyone who gets a Pfizer COVID vaccine in Australia:

            Myocarditis or pericarditis in young people

            In rare cases, myocarditis (inflammation of the heart) and pericarditis (inflammation of the membrane around the heart) can develop after vaccination with Pfizer.

            Most cases have mild symptoms and recover well.

            The TGA reports that these rare effects on the heart typically occur:
            within 10 days of vaccination
            after the second dose
            more often in men aged under 30.

            https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/approved-vaccines/pfizer#rare-side-effects

            The information for Moderna is similar. The AstraZeneca and Novavax information doesn’t mention myocarditis, because it’s not a known side-effect of those vaccines.

            The day I got my Pfizer booster (my prior two vaccinations were AstraZeneca), I got an email from my doctor’s surgery that contained a link to a federal health department COVID vaccine symptom checker Web site.

            Isn’t similar information provided where you live?

          • DanLucas:

            The main problem remains that the safety data to make an informed decision is very poor and should have been available long ago

            The added risk of myocarditis in young men is recognised in the advice available to everyone who gets a Pfizer COVID vaccine in Australia:

            Myocarditis or pericarditis in young people

            In rare cases, myocarditis (inflammation of the heart) and pericarditis (inflammation of the membrane around the heart) can develop after vaccination with Pfizer.

            Most cases have mild symptoms and recover well.

            The TGA reports that these rare effects on the heart typically occur:
            within 10 days of vaccination
            after the second dose
            more often in men aged under 30.

            https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/approved-vaccines/pfizer#rare-side-effects

            The information for Moderna is similar. The AstraZeneca and Novavax information doesn’t mention myocarditis, because it’s not a known side-effect of those vaccines.

            The day I got my Pfizer booster (my prior two vaccinations were AstraZeneca), I got an email from my doctor’s surgery that contained a link to a federal health department COVID vaccine symptom checker Web site.

            Isn’t similar information provided where you live?

          • @prl

            CDC’s has this page on myocarditis: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html

            If you look in way back machine, the above page has been up since may 2021
            https://web.archive.org/web/20210501000000*/https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html

            If I remember correctly, in USA vaccinations started for certain groups in Jan 2021 and in April or May 2021 they were made available for everyone. Taking into account the fact that myocarditis is a very rare AE, it took some time before the signal was detectable.

          • Alright, be that as it may. I don’t have the time at the moment to work through each of these points. I have not made any claims, only some considerations.

            Regarding the trustworthiness of Pfizer pls take note:

            https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635

            With reference to Prof. Burkhardt and his peer reviewed work it has to be noted that in the meantime more cases have been investigated with reassuring immune histology and other special methods, the link is very likely, the auto-immune reactions very telling. All this is very time consuming and as said these cases would never have been recognized as such if the relatives had not demanded the autopsy. This also requires special skills of pathologists, because the diagnosis is very difficult to make and even experienced pathologists easily overlook it or misdiagnose. That is why many unrecognized cases are assumed, also by Prof. Schirmacher one of the most respected pathologists. According to Burkhardt, he himself has performed about 40,000 post mortems in his career and has examined 500,000 biopsies. It is not my place to criticize someone like that.

            Anyway, I suspect the best mathematicians and statisticians in the insurance industry will soon be looking at the presumed correlation between vaccinations and death anyway. One may be curious. There you go!

            “Money talks, bullshit walks”

            Are Moderna and Pfizer the Next Enrons?

            Former Blackrock and hedge fund guru Edward Dowd paints a grim picture of Big Pharma’s vax kings – while Big Insurance appears to be preparing to go to war with Big Pharma over death benefits

            Dowd: “Let’s talk about Pfizer’s potential revenue if these vaccines are mandated quarterly. Their revenues go from 52 Billion to 350 Billion overnight. If you don’t think that’s enough incentive to bribe government officials, you’re naive”.

            Dowd: “First week of February, the insurance reports are going to come out for death and disability reporting. Aegon insurance American division saw death claims alone go from 31 million in 2020, when Covid was raging by the way, to 111 million by the 3rd quarter 2021, with 4th quarter results coming out in February.

            Money talks bullshit walks, once the numbers come out and the numbers are vertical from the VAERS database, it’s going to get real, and you’re not going to be able to hide a 40% fatality increase and NOT TALK ABOUT THE VACCINE. It’s just not going to happen”

            May you be well!

          • @DanLucas

            Ah…the mighty BMJ article by Paul Thacker, trustworthiness of which has already been assessed by Dr. Gorski. You can read all about it here: https://respectfulinsolence.com/2021/11/15/wtf-happened-to-the-bmj/

            With reference to Prof. Burkhardt and his peer reviewed work

            Oh, please stop with the bullshit, DanLucas. Prof. Burkhardt’s article is not worthy of being called peer review work. Typing up three and half pages of nonsense doesn’t constitute as peer reviewed work. It takes a lot of work to get an article published in a reputable journal. Take it from someone (yours truly) who has published peer reviewed work in scientific journals. Clearly you don’t understand what peer reviewed articles are, so here you go, educate yourself: https://guides.lib.jjay.cuny.edu/c.php?g=288333&p=1922599 or not and continue being ignorant.

            Of course, you don’t have time to go thru my rebuttal, but you do have time to post a bunch of unadulterated grade A bullshit and looney tunes conspiracy theories.

          • What I meant with “peer reviewed” was that his work is backed up by the experienced co-pathologist Prof. Dr. Lang, everything is diagnosed together and a whole team working in the background, there is the possibility for other experts to look at it, also on request. Everything is transparent. Prof. Burkhardt, by the way, has about 150 scientific papers published and is internationally renowned.

            But dont worry, Daneel. I hope you have taken note of the rocketing insurance death rates etc. and the hunch of Edward Dowd and that the correlation will most likely be thoroughly assessed by experts for sure. Lets be patient a bit longer and we might have clearer picture.

            And pls take a quick look, what should suffice, into the commy section of your myocarditis-Corona-study. No Comment! Correct, I havent looked at the data set of Prof. Morris.

            I provided the link to the myocarditis study to show the susceptibility of this cohort. The authors focused on individual patient reports and considered underreporting rather than overreporting of cases plausible. So many may have gone unrecognized or the immune response may simply be at a lower rate, which is reasonable, but not unproblematic. Don’t downplay the finding of myocarditis, this is not a small thing and can also lead to loss of heart muscle, the word “mild” is somewhat misleading here. Also different batch numbers can vary apparently in their efficacy (toxic effect) so numbers may vary as well considerably. And therefore here again a telling current link for you, that also DaneeL understand the justified concerns:

            https://www.hartgroup.org/open-letter-to-the-mhra-regarding-child-death-data/

            Even the BMJ now expresses strong concerns and dismay about the independence and integrity of the pharmaceutical players involved,

            https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o102

            …which is known for a long time anyway to most, and not a conspiracy theory, Daneel. There are also current rumors of bribery of Austrian government officials for the introduction of mandatory vaccination, rope relationships between FDA and Pfizer and three-digit million sums as bribes. And as Dowd noted, if you don’t believe that revenues are enough to bribe government officials then you’re naive, are you?

            The poor efficacy and emerging side effects are now being raised more strongly and doubters are getting louder, be they clinics or even physicians who were previously rather enthusiastic, and, even when for you nothing is changing.

          • I also wanted to share with you a few lines that may sound like conspiracy theory to you, but I think are worth reading. Maybe you have to read a little between the lines. Would you also call John Ioannidis a conspiracy theorist ?

            “It is critical in free, democratic societies that media never become a vessel for a single, state-sanctioned, official narrative at the expense of public debate and freedom of speech. The same applies for social media: Removing content considered “fake” or “false” in order to limit the ability of ordinary people to judge information for themselves only inflames polarization and distrust of the public sphere.

            This is especially important in the realm of scientific debate. Anyone who believes that it’s possible to cleanse “science” of error through brute force censorship has no understanding of how science works or how accurate, unbiased evidence is accumulated in the first place. The idea of arbitrators who select what is correct and dismiss what is incorrect is the most alien possible concept to science. Without the ability to make errors or make (and improve on) inaccurate hypotheses, there is no science. The irony is that scientists understand (or at least should understand) and embrace (or at least should embrace) the fact that we all float in a sea of nonsense; it is the opportunist influencers and pundits, lacking in any understanding of the scientific method, who believe in the possibility of pure, unconflicted “truth.”

            The population at large would benefit more from scientific skepticism (which doesn’t require a Ph.D.) than from the purging of “bias” by spurious information purifiers. Teaching free citizens about the risk of multifarious biases and how to prevent, detect, and avoid them is a job for educational institutions like schools and universities, not for tech companies, billionaires, federal bureaucrats, or online mobs. Being sensitized about bias has nothing to do with conspiracy theories, and may be the best way to diminish the alarming number of followers of conspiracy theorists.”

            https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/saving-democracy-from-pandemic

            Take care.

          • @DanLucas

            What I meant with “peer reviewed” was that his work is backed up by the experienced co-pathologist Prof. Dr. Lang, everything is diagnosed together and a whole team working in the background,

            Having a co-author on the document doesn’t mean the paper is peer reviewed nor having a team in the background. Everyone working on the paper will need to be credited and nothing of that sort is apparent in the document. By the way, you don’t get to redefine what peer reviewed means to get yourself out of the hole you dug for yourself.

            And pls take a quick look, what should suffice, into the commy section of your myocarditis-Corona-study. No Comment! Correct, I havent looked at the data set of Prof. Morris.

            Good for you. Ignore the data but pay attention to the comments made by trolls like you. Sounds like a great strategy.

            Ah..the BMJ again, this time Peter Doshi:
            https://respectfulinsolence.com/2021/01/15/why-is-peter-doshi-still-an-editor-at-the-bmj/

            The population at large would benefit more from scientific skepticism (which doesn’t require a Ph.D.)

            Don’t get confused between conspiracy theories and scientific skepticism. If you are a true skeptic, you would look at Prof. Morris’s data and try to engage in a conversation rather than spew conspiracy theories every chance you get. I don’t have anything else to say on this topic. Have a nice life!

    • You’re not involved with healthcare are you, D.L.

      You have no background in science or medicine.

      All you have is a computer and the ability to make 2+2=wheelbarrow.

      Jam your tinfoil hat on a little tighter and go play with your fellow insignificant and delusional loons.

    • D. L. Rhoades, are you aware that there is more than one country?

    • Ron Johnson promotes conspiracy theories related to COVID-19. He is a despicable loon.

      Johnson used his position as chair of the Senate Homeland Security Committee to invite witnesses to hearings to promote fringe theories about COVID-19. The witnesses promoted unproven drugs, made dubious claims about COVID-19 spread and pushed skepticism about vaccines.

      Johnson peddled misinformation about COVID-19 vaccines during the pandemic.

      In May 2021, Johnson falsely claimed that thousands of deaths were connected to COVID vaccinations. He also falsely stated that there was a risk of death for people previously infected with COVID who received the vaccine.

      After Twitter suspended Alex Berenson for making false claims about the pandemic and vaccines, Johnson praised him as “a courageous voice of reason” and encouraged people to continue reading Berenson’s writing on another site.

      In an interview on Fox News Primetime, Johnson repeated a debunked conspiracy theory that the FDA has not approved a COVID vaccine, claiming that the FDA approved the “Comirnaty version” and alleging that it is not available in the US.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Johnson_(Wisconsin_politician)#COVID-19_pandemic

    • @ D.L. Rhoades

      If anyone on this site has doubts that Covid19, which HAS a 97% or better survival rate and so NOT a ‘deadly disease’,

      Let us do the math using your 97% survival rate, shall we?

      World population: 7.9 billion
      If 3% of world population succumbs to covid infection, that would be 237 million dead people, i.e., 237 followed by six zeros, like so 237,000,000

      US population: 334 million
      If 3% of US population succumbs to covid infection, that would be 10 million dead people just in the US, i.e., 10 followed by six zeros, like so 10,000,000

      Unless you failed kindergarten math, you would understand that a number followed by six zeros is a huge number and that means even at a 97% survival rate, covid can kill a shit ton of folks. So much for a “NOT a deadly disease”.

      • It isn’t about “failed kindergarten math”, it’s about the very real problem of functional innumeracy.

        Numeracy is the ability to reason and to apply simple numerical concepts… A numerically literate person can manage and respond to the mathematical demands of life.

        By contrast, innumeracy (the lack of numeracy) can have a negative impact. Numeracy has an influence on career decisions, may negatively affect economic choices, and distorts risk perception towards health decisions. Greater numeracy has been associated with reduced susceptibility to framing effects, less influence of nonnumerical information such as mood states, and greater sensitivity to different levels of numerical risk.”
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numeracy

        See also:
        “Health literacy”, Wikipedia
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_literacy

        “Basics: Innumeracy”, ScienceBlogs
        https://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2007/04/16/basics-innumeracy

        • Cool, I thought one would learn percentages in kindergarten as a part of basic math. I am too old to recall my kindergarten days. Following sentence from the ScienceBlogs link is spot on. You just need to replace the word “creationist” with “antivaxer” and “evolution” with “vaccines”.

          “When some creationist liar comes along and quotes a bunch of math at you as a “proof” that science is all wrong about evolution, how can you recognize their lies? “

          • @ R. Daneel
            I totally agree with your word replacements.

            I’d like to take this opportunity to thank you for writing your thoughtful comments on this website.

            With best wishes,
            Pete

    • D.L. Rhoades wrote “including Ivermectin with a 90 YEAR success/cure rate”.

      Ivermectin was discovered in 1975 (47 years ago); first use in humans in 1987 (35 years ago).
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin

      BTW, the noun ivermectin is not a proper noun, nor a brand name, nor a trademark.

      • @Pete Attkins

        What you said about ivermectin is true, but according to D.L. Rhoades there was once a “Breaking Bad” version of HCQ 😀

        Hydroxychloroquine which YOU can make at home with 3 Grapefruit and 5 Lemons, for which the owner-managers were murdered when their factory was blown up.

        • I didn’t comment on the “3 Grapefruit and 5 Lemons” part, my reply would’ve been too acidic!

          Let’s see what happens after my experiment using 5 apples, 2 pears, a bunch of loganberries, and a kilo of Brussels sprouts.

          • Of course, that is the recipe for ivermectin, Pete Attkins.

            You would not remember that because big pharma stooges erased your memory: https://youtu.be/XUefRJLZPP8?t=150

            🤣

          • Mr. Pete

            Quinine doesn’t need to be an exact replica of the synthetic version of HCQ, in fact most patients I know would lean toward anything natural vs synthetic. Who cares if it’s not exactly HCQ ? Evidently there is evidence that quinine has benefits fighting covid, this is what’s important to potential covid patients.
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8069458/
            https://www.mynaturaltreatment.com/3-highest-natural-sources-of-quinine/

            Even though the lying mainstream media would attempt to suppress any and all therapeutics for covid-19, the people will still find a way beat covid without media, social media, government agencies and conventional medicine getting in the way.

            That said, curiously the FDA IS now blocking the use of monoclonal antibodies. Why are they blocking use of drugs that were previously sanctioned and approved ? So an option has been removed from MD’s and patients.
            https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-monoclonal-antibodies-omicron-fda-florida/
            So the FDA approved monoclonal antibodies because they were effective, not they say that the antibodies are not effective against Omicron. Why take away an option ? Delta cases haven’t yet evaporated.
            Yet they don’t explain why the FDA hasn’t pulled the use of the VACCINES that are not effective against omicron…. clearly they are not, or the omicron surges in every country of the world would not have occurred with so many vaccinated patients.
            If the vaccines were effective, the Pharma industry would not be frantically re-tooling for fast new vaccines that are effective against Omicron.

            We have people in every country in the world that are pushing back against tyranny. Patients and potential patients that don’t want to join the religious cult the religion of the face masks.

          • @concerned patient

            How come you are still hanging on to HCQ? I thought antivaxer loons moved on from HCQ to horsey pills. I guess the effects of HCQ astroturfing hasn’t worn off: https://respectfulinsolence.com/2020/08/17/astroturfing-promoting-hydroxychloroquine-to-treat-covid-19-continues-apace/. Who cares about all the evidence against HCQ: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/hydroxychloroquine-ebm-sbm/, right?

            I wonder why the blog post (second link in your post) about natural sources of quinine has affiliate links shamelessly embedded within the content of the blog post? Tonic water and quinine extract for $20 each? Are they trying to make money off gullible antivaxers? I don’t know concerned patient, looks like something big pharma would do.

            Apparently quinine poisoning is a thing: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3548270/ and is treated using charcoal hemoperfusion
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC2417512/.
            Just thought you should know in case you end up OD’ing on quinine.

          • Where do you shove the apples/pears/loganberries/sprouts mixture?

          • @DavidB

            Where do you shove the apples/pears/loganberries/sprouts mixture?

            Great question. There are two applications. If you feed the mixture to a horse, it will poop out ivermectin pills. Hence, they are called horsey pills. Some antivaxxers figured out that if they take this mixture via enema, they temporarily acquire immense capabilities of proctophasia: https://edzardernst.com/2021/11/proctophasia-a-nasty-affliction-of-many-proponents-of-so-called-alternative-medicine/

          • Good grief, the aliens have landed on planet Earth! Not from another galaxy; not even from a parallel universe; but from some orthogonal-to-reality and impervious-to-reality domain.

            I’m reminded of The Twilight Zone:
            QUOTE
            Each episode presents a stand-alone story in which characters find themselves dealing with often disturbing or unusual events, an experience described as entering “the Twilight Zone,” often with a surprise ending and a moral. Although predominantly science-fiction, the show’s paranormal and Kafkaesque events leaned the show towards fantasy and horror. The phrase “twilight zone,” inspired by the series, is used to describe surreal experiences.

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twilight_Zone_(1959_TV_series)
            END of QUOTE

          • @concerning patient
            As others also commented, most of what you say already lies firmly beyond the sanity horizon and is thus a waste of time to debunk. However, the following titbit is actually quite amusing:

            curiously the FDA IS now blocking the use of monoclonal antibodies.

            Do you even read the stuff you link to? Because the answer is staring, no, in fact slapping you in the face:

            FDA halts use of monoclonal antibodies that don’t work against Omicron [that now accounts for nearly all U.S. infections].

            Do you really want people to use a hugely expensive (> $2000 a pop) treatment THAT DOES NOT WORK – a fact that is even promulgated by the pharmaceutical companies themselves?
            What is it with you loonies? Do you only want ‘treatments’ that are NOT advised by science? I thought you crazy folk were all against Big Pharma, among other things because according to you, they make tons of money selling toxic stuff that doesn’t work – but now that there actually IS a very expensive medicine that indeed does not work any more, you insist that it should absolutely be approved for use?

            I’m not usually one for name calling, but maybe you had better change your pseudonym to ‘mental patient’ …

          • R Daneel

            I won’t OD on quinine because I don’t used it, not to say I wouldn’t. As you know, many many things taken in excess can create of over dose to death situation…. including pharma meds.
            If you referred to the NIH link I posted, you would have found that quinine is not only effective for covid-19, but you would also be hard pressed to find any mention of the danger of overdose from the posted study.

            Ivermectin.
            Yes, I do take Ivermectin, but the one that has been intended for and produced for humans ….for decades. I use it anytime I feel flu symptoms. The symptoms go away, I recover with NO NO NO side effects. I’ve actually been using Ivermectin for flu symptoms since long before the planedemic began.

            As for the quinine link with the add, should they be giving it away to those that don’t make their own ? The website indicated the formula to readers.
            The internet is full of links on how to make quinine at home, this is nothing new. Homeopaths have been using it to fight pneumonia for many years. And no, it doesn’t look like something pharma would do, pharma doesn’t sell meds for $20, unless they are off patient.

          • @concerned patient

            Good for you that you don’t take HCQ. However, that didn’t stop you from promoting “natural” HQC: https://edzardernst.com/2022/01/the-moral-and-intellectual-decay-of-covid-disinformants/#comment-136809. Just sayin!

            Oh so, you do take horsey pills. Apparently, antivaxxer sheeple have been OD’ing on horse pills as we. I guess you are one of the clever ones.
            https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/04/1034217306/ivermectin-overdose-exposure-cases-poison-control-centers
            https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2114907

          • concerned patient:

            Quinine doesn’t need to be an exact replica of the synthetic version of HCQ, in fact most patients I know would lean toward anything natural vs synthetic. Who cares if it’s not exactly HCQ ? Evidently there is evidence that quinine has benefits fighting covid, this is what’s important to potential covid patients.
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8069458/

            You didn’t happen to notice that in that paper the number of COVID patients treated was exactly zero, did you? It pretty much tells you so in the title: “Quinine Inhibits Infection of Human Cell Lines with SARS-CoV-2”.

            That paper also says that hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine don’t work for the treatment of COVID in patients.

            It’s an in vitro study, and, of course, there’s an XKCD cartoon for that:
            https://xkcd.com/1217/

          • @concerned patient

            The answer to your question is quite simple, as stated in the linked article. The monoclonal antibodies from Lilly and Regeneron are not effective against the Omicron virus variant.

            So the FDA does not block but limits their use.

            only when the patient is likely to have been infected with or exposed to a variant that is susceptible to these treatments.

            Because data show these treatments are highly unlikely to be active against the omicron variant, which is circulating at a very high frequency throughout the United States, these treatments are not authorized for use in any U.S. states, territories, and jurisdictions at this time.

            Monoclonal antibodies are laboratory-made proteins that mimic the immune system’s ability to fight off harmful pathogens such as viruses, like SARS-CoV-2. And like other infectious organisms, SARS-CoV-2 can mutate over time, resulting in certain treatments not working against certain variants such as omicron. This is the case with these two treatments for which we’re making changes today.

            https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-limits-use-certa

            If you are infected with Corona and an analysis determines that it is NOT the Omicron variant, you can still be treated with the antibodies if necessary.

          • concerned patient:

            I won’t OD on quinine because I don’t used it, not to say I wouldn’t. As you know, many many things taken in excess can create of over dose to death situation…. including pharma meds.

            You don’t need to overdose on quinine for it to have bad side-effects:
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinine#Adverse_effects

            Natural != harmless.

          • Funny how these antivaxers are not at all concerned about the side effects of HCQ, ivermection or some other drug they are snorting on a regular basis. When it comes to vaccines that one would get a couple of times a year at the most, they think the side effects are the devil.

          • @R. Daneel

            Have you read the package insert of aspirin or any other over-the-counter pain reliever? These drugs have more or more serious side effects than the approved Corona vaccines.

            Still, no anti-vaxer or corona denier would stop taking aspirin for headaches.

          • @ R. Daneel:

            Thank you for this very helpful and practical response! I have had instancecs of Proctophasia in my life, but I am sure it is a communication mode that I could further develop…..

            “@DavidB

            Where do you shove the apples/pears/loganberries/sprouts mixture?

            Great question. There are two applications. If you feed the mixture to a horse, it will poop out ivermectin pills. Hence, they are called horsey pills. Some antivaxxers figured out that if they take this mixture via enema, they temporarily acquire immense capabilities of proctophasia: https://edzardernst.com/2021/11/proctophasia-a-nasty-affliction-of-many-proponents-of-so-called-alternative-medicine/

          • I have had instancecs of Proctophasia in my life, but I am sure it is a communication mode that I could further develop…..

            You are on to something DavidB. Perhaps one could apply that mode of communication when conversing with rabid antivaxxer trolls? Or use scathing satire to lampoon their already (unintentionally) hilarious talking points? Although, there is a fine line between the two modes of communication, and it takes practice. After all there is some entertainment value in all this, I suppose. 😀

          • @David B

            You don’t have to be an anti-vaxer to use Ivermectin. You only need believe that it could potentially protect you from virus infection, or at least as much as the failed vaccines do. Many many MD’s and patients that have already been covid vaccinated and boosted use Ivermectin.
            In fact, many a healthcare worker takes it regularly as prophylaxis protection.
            https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33592050/
            https://europepmc.org/article/PPR/PPR284079

            “Pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP) for COVID-19 with a weekly oral dose of ivermectin 0.2 mg/kg was statistically significant in exposed healthcare personnel at the CMBO and CMPC after 28 days of follow up, with only 1.8% of the physicians and health collaborators developing SARS-CoV-2 infection versus 6.6% in the control group (p-value = 0.006). Ivermectin reduced the risk of contagion with COVID-19 by 74% compared to the control group (HR 0.26, 95% CI [0.10, 0.71]).”
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8405705/

            Furthermore, they are using the preventative measure with no serious side effects. Again, not all Ivermectin proponents are anti-vax. I call BS on your accusations.

          • @ concerned patient:

            To what accusations by me are you referring?

          • @concerned patient

            with only 1.8% of the physicians and health collaborators developing SARS-CoV-2 infection versus 6.6% in the control group

            *sigh* … But OK, let’s see … this is about 326 people on ivermectin, and 378 in the control group.
            Results: in the ivermectin group, 1.8% got infected = 6 people, while in the control group, this was 6.6%, or 25 people.
            Erm, aren’t those numbers a bit on the low side to draw any conclusions from? And oh, this was a retrospective cohort study, which by its very nature is very prone to several types of bias, requires LARGE sample sizes, and by definition is unsuitable to establish causality. And oh, they had a follow-up of JUST ONE MONTH – which is utterly ridiculous. And oh, for establishing infection rates, they did NOT actually test for the virus, but just looked at symptoms. And oh, it was a preprint from almost a year ago that never even made it through peer review.

            All this means just one thing:

            IT IS TOTAL CRAP.

            Ivermectin does not work period. So please stop promoting it.

          • Dear Richard

            I provided a second link to a separate study from India on the effects of Ivermectin as a prophylaxis for healthcare workers, a much larger case study.

            https://europepmc.org/article/PPR/PPR284079

            And this;
            https://www.thedesertreview.com/news/national/ivermectin-obliterates-97-percent-of-delhi-cases/article_6a3be6b2-c31f-11eb-836d-2722d2325a08.html

          • @concerned patient

            Dear Richard I provided a second link to a separate study from India on the effects of Ivermectin as a prophylaxis for healthcare workers, a much larger case study.

            https://europepmc.org/article/PPR/PPR284079

            I am not Dear Richard but I am going to respond anyway.

            The preprint for the large Indian study you were referring was made available in Fed 2021 and was approved and published in Aug 2021. In late September 2021 Indian Council of Medical Research (ICMR) revised their guidelines and dropped ivermectin and HCQ: https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/icmr-stops-use-of-ivermectin-hcq-for-covid-19-treatment/article36651890.ece. I wonder why?

            I haven’t read the entire study yet, but a red flag I noticed is that the study was done by professors at All India Institute of Medical Sciences (AIIMS) Bhubaneswar and the test subjects were the employees and students at that institute. I am not sure how ethical these kinds of studies are when the scientists are testing drugs on their students and underlings, not to mention the conflicts of interests for all parties involved. Another thing I noticed is that the subjects were not tested for antibodies prior to the study, this is important because the study was conducted during the first wave of the epidemic and a lot of people might have already been infected and have antibodies present. I am a rookie at evaluating studies and I happened to find two issues with it without even looking. I am sure others will find more holes. Just wait until everyone commented on this study before you respond. I am sure Richard will have more things to say.

  • And he would NOT take a dose of horse paste meant for a 1200 horse if he did.
    Too much water can KILL you!
    You all think this vaccine is that great for a disease with a death rate that is low
    https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/589414-study-estimates-omicron-patients-at-substantially-reduced-risk-than-delta
    1 out of 52,000 if omicron
    The full list of possible side-effects of a COVID vaccine, according to the FDA, are “Guillain-Barré syndrome; Acute disseminated encephalomyelitis; Transverse myelitis; Encephalitis/myelitis/encephalomyelitis/ meningoencephalitis/meningitis/ encepholapathy; Convulsions/seizures; Stroke; Narcolepsy and cataplexy; Anaphylaxis; Acute myocardial infarction; Myocarditis/pericarditis; Autoimmune disease; Deaths; Pregnancy and birth outcomes; Other acute demyelinating diseases; Non-anaphylactic allergic reactions; Thrombocytopenia; Disseminated intravascular coagulation; Venous thromboembolism; Arthritis and arthralgia/joint pain; Kawasaki disease; Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome in Children; Vaccine enhanced disease.”
    ( https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/fda-death-heart-attacks-stroke-blood-disorders-all-possible-side-effects-of-covid-vaccine/?utm_source=LifeSiteNews.com&utm_campaign=2543eabb1a-Daily%2520Headlines%2520-%2520U.S._COPY_914&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_12387f0e3e-2543eabb1a-402348069)

    But is there one commercial there stating there are even side effects?
    None in the USA

    All below could be fake news, right?
    All you best hope so and the MSM is telling the truth…..
    https://www.flemingmethod.com/the-pfizer-vaccine-blood
    https://luis46pr.wordpress.com/2021/07/14/dr-charles-hoffe-mrna-vaccines-will-kill-most-people-through-heart-failure-62-already-have-microscopic-blood-clots/
    https://rumble.com/vrg9nv-dr.-nathan-thompson-bloodwork-on-vaxxed-patient-is-terrifying.html
    https://dailyexpose.uk/2022/01/02/german-gov-data-suggests-fully-vaccinated-developing-ade/
    and some pfizer document has been released as well
    https://westernstandardonline.com/2021/12/watch-bc-doctor-reviews-shocking-stats-from-released-pfizer-documents/
    Maybe he is lying and using fake pages from Pfizer documents as well, right?
    If he is not, over 27% adverse affects on pregnant women.
    So this begs the question, what would have happened with proper early treatment?
    Is Covid killing all those people we were told?
    Even USA CDC admitted 75% had four or more health conditions…..
    I gather many agree it was best to send people home to quarantine with no game plan and come back if you have issues and try your luck with Remdesiver and a ventilator?
    Best,
    Jeff
    https://c19early.com/

    • @Jeffrey Bloom

      Wow…you seem like a nice guy trying to save people for big bad pharma vaccines. Do you have any side effect free solution for avoiding covid infection? Ivermectin and HCQ are available, but they are made by big bad pharma, and they stand to make money. You probably don’t know of a pharma-less solution, but I do Jeffery Bloom. In fact, I invented one and is currently patent pending. It is called Invisible TH-XT (trademark pending). Basically, it is an invisible tinfoil hat that protects you from nasty covid variants, including omicron. The way it works is that you will receive an empty cardboard box in mail after you pay me $1000. Don’t worry, the box is not empty, I promise you that it contains an invisible tinfoil hat. You stand in front of the mirror and put the invisible tinfoil hat on. To an observer it may seem like you are acting as though you are putting on a hat and they may think you are crazy. But that is okay because the said observer does not know that you are putting on an invisible hat that will protect you from covid and all its future variants for the rest of your life. You don’t have to take the hat off or wash it. You can go about your day not looking like a tinfoil hatted moron. It just stays on your head for the rest of your life and protects you. That is the beauty of it. For a limited time, I am offering a 50% discount plus free S+H. Hurry!! the offer expires in 2 days.

  • BTW,
    He never should have compared the both.

  • One simple retort to all of you with regard to the monoclonal antibodies.

    The CEO of Moderna admitted that their vaccine is not effective against the omicron virus variant. The Pfizer CEO admitted that two doses would not be effective. In Israel the top researcher said that a fourth jab will not be good enough to protect against Omicron. Bill gates has said that the vaccines are not effective and new ones need to be created. I could go on endlessly about the lack of efficacy against the Omicron variant.

    The FDA does not routinely pull previously approved drugs for lack of efficacy, in most cases drugs are pulled for lack of safety. So if the FDA pulled the use of the monoclonal antibodies due to an efficacy issue… why have they not pulled the covid vaccines due to the same loss of efficacy against Omicron ?

    • “I could go on endlessly”

      I’m sure you will, even if no one is interested in your jibber-jabber.

    • Moderna and Pfizer/BioNTech have already developed variants of the Corona-vaccine which are adapted to Omicron and they are testing them.

      https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/moderna-starts-trial-testing-omicron-specific-booster-shot-2022-01-26/
      https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-initiate-study-evaluate-omicron-based

      Do a better research next time before you spread falsehoods and bore the readers.

      • @RPG1

        Yes, they are “developing” them as we write, as are many pharma. They have neither published evidence of success, nor have they yet received EUA status.
        So you did not answer the question. Why have not the current EUA covid vaccines been removed from market due to efficacy failure against Omicron ?

        • Yes, they are “developing” them as we write, as are many pharma. They have neither published evidence of success, nor have they yet received EUA status.

          Did you read the articles? I do not think so. Moderna and Pfizer/BioNTech are not only developing (why are you using quotation marks) an Omicron-based vaccine they are testing them already. In a few weeks, we will know the results of the studies. I am pretty sure that the outcome will be positive.

          Why have not the current EUA covid vaccines been removed from market due to efficacy failure against Omicron ?

          1) “While current research and real-world data show that boosters continue to provide a high level of protection against severe disease and hospitalization with Omicron, we recognize the need to be prepared in the event this protection wanes over time and to potentially help address Omicron and new variants in the future,” said Kathrin U. Jansen, Ph.D., Senior Vice President and Head of Vaccine Research & Development at Pfizer.

          2) Alpha, Beta and Delta did not vanish. Experts certainly believe that Delta can make a comeback. As an infection with Omikron does not protect well against infection by Delta or other variants, we still need the “old” vaccine.

          PS: And please do not try to move the goalposts or lay out red herrings again. These tactics are just too cheap.

      • “Tinfoil hat blocks viruses and other threats from entering your body, so your immune system doesn’t have to work hard and would not need boosting. ”
        Sounds alot better than the vaccine does for sure….

        https://www.christianitydaily.com/articles/14735/20220127/new-govt-data-shows-unvaxxed-less-likely-to-get-covid-than-vaxxed.htm
        Then again, the whistleblowers from the US military pretty much have shown how bad this vaccine is….
        https://www.bitchute.com/video/8i91cq2LTdfP/
        Then again, they might be lying, and many “believers” better hope so….

        and you all can not even guess what might help almost as good as your hat.
        And BTW, D3 is only about $2 per month

        • Jeffery Bloom says:

          Sounds alot better than the vaccine does for sure….

          https://www.christianitydaily.com/articles/14735/20220127/new-govt-data-shows-unvaxxed-less-likely-to-get-covid-than-vaxxed.htm

          @ Jeffery Bloom

          Ah…the much coveted government report. They exist for the purpose of being misinterpreted and used as evidence against vaccinations by right-wing publications like Christin Daily.

          Let’s see what the report has to say regarding misinterpreting “COVID-19 Cases, Hospitalisations, and Deaths by Vaccine Status” data, on page 34:

          PLEASE READ BEFORE REVIEWING THE FOLLOWING TABLES AND FIGURES

          Interpretation of data
          There is a large risk of misinterpretation of the data presented in this section due to the complexities of vaccination data. A blog post by the UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA), formerly Public Health England (PHE), provides a comprehensive explanation of the biases and potential areas for misinterpretation of such data. They state that a simple comparison of COVID-19 case rates in those who are vaccinated and unvaccinated should not be used to assess how effective a vaccine is in preventing serious health outcomes, because there are a number of differences between the groups, other than the vaccine itself, and these biases mean that you cannot use the rates to determine how well the vaccines work.

          Emphasis NOT mine.

          Kudos to the authors of that report for thinking ahead and including the disclaimer. However, the not-so-subtle disclaimer didn’t stop the Christian Daily from misinterpreting data and you Jeffrey Bloom from blindly regurgitating that right-wing bullshit. The blog post mentioned in the above disclaimer goes into more details on why vaccine effectiveness cannot be deduced by simply comparing the case rates between the two groups. But I doubt that you read any of that, probably because you don’t trust the government reports, but you have no problem trusting the twisted interpretation of your friends at the Christian Daily. Anyway, I had to digress to point out your innate foolishness.

          Jeffery Bloom says:

          and you all can not [sic] even guess what might help almost as good as your hat.
          And BTW, D3 is only about $2 per month

          I don’t have to guess, nothing comes close to being almost as good as my tinfoil hats. By the way, my invisible tinfoil hat is $100 for a lifetime supply, you do the math. Moreover, my hats don’t mess with the immune system or anything else w.r.t your body.

          D3 supplementation on the other hand, I don’t know…….
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D_toxicity#Long-term_effects_of_supplementary_oral_intake

        • @Jeffrey Bloom

          [bitchute video]

          A bit of advice:
          – Videos are almost by definition a bad source of scientific information. They force the viewer to ingest the information in the order, the way and at the pace of the video maker, usually lack depth, rarely have references, and are often designed to influence the viewers’ emotions, not to convey objective information.
          – And bitchute is literally a combination of a video platform and a garbage chute: this is where all videos end up that are rejected by other channels because of their highly dubious content and/or atrociously bad quality. Already the name of the channel signals to the viewer to expect nothing but heaps of stinking trash, too toxic even to turn into compost.

          If you wish to make your point using external information, it is better to stick to written sources, preferably PubMed or the likes. And even then it is advised to first do a cursory fact check, because PubMed merely catalogues papers and articles etc.; it doesn’t vet them for things such as peer review or quality in any way.

          • “, it is better to stick to written sources, preferably PubMed or the likes. And even then it is advised to first do a cursory fact check, because PubMed merely catalogues papers and articles etc.; it doesn’t vet them for things such as peer review or quality in any way.”

            Ahhh, then PubMed would be guilty of spreading “misinformation” ?

  • Tin Tin,
    Why are you joking around about a virus that has killed so many?
    Or a vaccine that has ruined some peoples lives or killed them like the 1200 in the Pfizer trail?
    Bottom line, the vaccine does not prevent you from contacting covid or passing it on so it prevents you from getting as sick as if you did not get the vaccine.
    (That I believe even though I have not looked for proof and CDC and FDA does not count)
    I wear a mask and face shield. The mask has a filter made for a HEPA vacuum cleaner.
    You want to get the shot.
    That is your choice
    Your risk
    I respect that
    I do not and decided for me, Quercetin, Zinc, C, selenium, and D is a good alternative. Take Xclear before leaving and can gargel with a recommended mouth wash like Listerine MINT
    My risk
    I believe that the worst threat to our hospitals are people who do not get vaccinated and walk around like Covid never exist.

    As far as money, compare the cost of the alternatives that seem to be working just fine in some places to the incentives like remdesiver ect
    https://www.cms.gov/medicare/covid-19/new-covid-19-treatments-add-payment-nctap
    And do you know what would happen if the USA decided Ivermectin could be used to treat Covid?
    Why not put that under EUA?
    No need to send me your paypal address.

    • @Jeffrey Bloom

      What makes you think I am joking around? I am a serious businessman with a serious tinfoil hat business to run and I am offended by your insinuation. If you don’t want to purchase a tinfoil hat, just say so. No need to accuse me of being a joker. By the way, I don’t care about what you think about covid, vaccines, ivermectin etc. I approached you because I mistook you for a potential customer as you were posting links to articles from right-wing websites like rumble etc. A lot of my customer are gullible right-wing media consumers, and I mistook you for a gullible one and I apologize for that. On the contrary you seem like a clever guy making a nuanced argument that tend to fall on deaf ears around here.

      You say:

      You want to get the shot.
      That is your choice
      Your risk
      I respect that

      You seem like a nice guy, and you say you respect other people’s decisions. Then, why come here and post right-wing articles on vaccines, ivermectin etc.?

      I don’t usually care about politics of vaccines and all, but I am curious to know what the drives you to post what most people around here consider as drivel. Do you have some hidden agenda?

      • Woo-hoo !

        Denmark now the third country to declare the pandemic has turned endemic, more and more will follow.

        https://interestingengineering.com/denmark-decides-covid-19-is-no-longer-a-threat-to-general-public

        • @concerned patient

          Did you actually read the entire article?

          Heunicke said, at the same conference, that the decision is safe and the right thing to do and added, “The situation in Denmark is that we have this decoupling between infections and intensive care patients, and it is mainly due to the large attachment among Danes to revaccination.

          Over 80 percent of Denmark’s population is vaccinated with two doses, of whom 60 percent are boosted with a third dose.

          Emphasis mine.

          In case you did not understand the article, let me spell it out for you. They are re-opening everything and that is certainly NOT because of Danes popping ivermectin or HCQ.

          • R Daneel

            I don’t actually have a dog in the fight. I couldn’t care less about how the pandemic ends. It’s time to treat the covid virus like other viruses and stop hiding behind lock downs, masks and mandates.

            Now, as to your claim that the reason is due to the failed covid-19 vaccines.
            You had better have a look at this data, I think you’re wrong.

            https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/denmark/

          • I don’t actually have a dog in the fight.

            Sure you don’t. You have been screaming ivermectin from the top of the hill since the past few days and I guess all that is for nothing.

            Now, as to your claim that the reason is due to the failed covid-19 vaccines.

            That ain’t my claim. If you read the article you would know that claim was made by Denmark’s Health Minister Magnus Heunicke. Forces of Dunning–Kruger effect are playing you like a fiddle!!

          • “Fri, January 28, 2022, 5:23 AM·1 min read

            JERUSALEM (Reuters) -Israel has signed a deal to buy 5 million COVID-19 vaccine doses from Novavax, the Health Ministry said on Friday.

            The vaccines are due to arrive in Israel in the coming months, pending regulatory approval. Financial details of the deal, which includes the option for an additional 5 million doses, were not disclosed.

            Novavax’s protein-based vaccine will be administered in two doses and has been found effective against a number of variants, the ministry said. It will be an alternative for those who do not want a vaccine that uses messenger RNA (mRNA) technology.

            Mostly Israelis have received the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine or other vaccines that use mRNA to spur an immune response.

            The ministry said Novavax’s vaccine has been approved by regulators in Europe and is still being examined by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.”

            https://news.yahoo.com/israel-signs-deal-novavax-covid-112335193.html

        • Perhaps a person with a motive to lie….
          “My best friend is an ICU nurse, she has personally seen over 80 patients now in the ICU who’ve had heart attacks strokes or other severe problems due to blood clots. most of these people were healthy and had no history of such problems. Their symptoms occurred within days to weeks of getting their VAX. In every case the doctors claimed that it had nothing to do with getting the VAX. Consequently, none of the doctors filed a report into VAERS. My guess is The doctors are either willfully blind, or if they suspect a connection they will not report due to fear of reprisal from the medical community. Overall The injuries have to be woefully underreported!”

  • Tin Tin,
    And I can think of a valid non pharma method to improve your immune system, can you?
    This does not include you hat that might have a brim.
    Your turn

    • @Jeffrey Bloom

      I heard natural immunity is second to none. Why do you need to improve it? Unless of course you don’t trust your natural immunity. SAD!

      By the way, my tinfoil hats are the best and they are endorsed by president trump. He wears the invisible model, so does his kids and the rest of his family.

      • I do not need you money
        So can you figure it out or not?
        I guess not…..So you “deflect”
        Mouth washes and nasal rinses do not count to prevent/reduce viral load
        I gather you all PRO vaxers would say they do not work anyways…
        In fact, only the vaccine is effective
        And your immune system and natural immunity are two different things or am I mistaken like your tinfoil hat?
        Go ahead and take the vaccine praying those you believe are on the up and up and all the other doctors are lying
        HANFD

      • A recent US national survey, NHANES 2007-2010, which surveyed 16,444 individuals four years and older, reported a high prevalence of inadequacies for multiple micronutrients (see Table 1). Specifically, 94.3% of the US population do not meet the daily requirement for vitamin D, 88.5% for vitamin E, 52.2% for magnesium, 44.1% for calcium, 43.0% for vitamin A, and 38.9% for vitamin C.
        (https://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/micronutrient-inadequacies/overview)
        Many in the USA follow FLCCC guidance instead of going to hospital

        • @Jeffrey Bloom

          So can you figure it out or not?

          Unless you are alluding that mouth washes and nasal rinses boost one’s immune system, my feeble mind cannot figure out your clues and parables, Sensei! Please enlighten me with your knowledge, I am dying of anticipation!!

          I am neither a provaxer nor an antivaxer. But I have dear friends on both sides of the vaccine belief system. Although the numbers on one side keeps dwindling and that is not on the pro-side for sure. Maybe the antivaxers, in their hatred of vaccines have fallen in love with the virus and voluntarily or involuntarily getting themselves infected, that explains these large numbers of unvaccinated hospitalizations and deaths: https://time.com/6138566/pandemic-of-unvaccinated/. Anyway, it is not my problem if antivaxers virus-lovers want to get sick and die and, in the process, allow themselves to act as a petri-dishes for the virus to mutate into new variants.

          If you ask me, tinfoil hats are the ultimate solution, not vaccines, certainly not the secret immune boosting methods you are peddling. I made a tinfoil hat when I was two years old and been wearing one ever since and I never got sick so far. That is all the evidence one needs. Tinfoil hat blocks viruses and other threats from entering your body, so your immune system doesn’t have to work hard and would not need boosting. Tinfoil hats are a simple solution for simple people like you Jeffrey Bloom, who cannot understand a simple fact that natural immunity is conferred by the immune system and any kind of boosting of said immune system will automatically change natural immunity into artificial immunity. Once changed, it can never go back to its natural state and you must keep boosting it periodically. My tinfoil hat solution avoids all that.

          Thank you for letting me know about FLCCC. I think they should have more options in their prevention protocol: https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/FLCCC-Alliance-I-MASKplus-Protocol-ENGLISH.pdf. Especially an option that allows for keeping one’s immune system in pristine natural condition. I shall reach out to them to have the tinfoil hat option included. They seem like a receptive bunch: https://covid19criticalcare.com/about/the-flccc-physicians/ and who doesn’t love censored and oppressed doctors fighting for freedom: https://flccc.substack.com/p/heroic-doctors-fight-for-freedom.

    • Everyone who ever died of an infectious disease had an immune system, including the fifty to a hundred million who died of H1N1 viral infection at the end of world war one, and the 220,000 who die of tuberculosis in India each year, and a similar number there who have Leprosy.

      • DavidB,

        Those millions of unfortunate souls would still be alive, if only they had known the secrets of improving their immune system that only Jefferey Bloom knows. Maybe we should put Jeffrey Bloom on a pedestal and sacrifice baby goats in his name. Perhaps he will show pity and share his knowledge with us mortals with weak immune systems.

        • Or perhaps if we just pay him a very great deal of money?……

          • Of course, money talks. However, religious idolization is a cheaper way to pump up ones sense of self importance, unless you prefer to save those imaginary baby goats from certain death.

    • Literally all the sources you cite are utter crap, filled with lies (Natural News? Really?). So sod off with your antivaccine nonsense, there’s a good boy.

    • Perhaps you are not aware of the degradation of current global media news, perhaps you are not aware of the TNI (Trusted News Initiative)…. otherwise known as what I call brainwashing.
      The main stream media today is banded together to control the narratives they want to promote. Anything other than ideas the TNI wishes to use to indoctrinate the masses are considered “mis-information”.
      https://www.quora.com/Who-are-the-Trusted-News-Initiative-TNI

      https://www.bbc.com/mediacentre/2020/trusted-news-initiative-vaccine-disinformation.
      https://bonnercountydailybee.com/news/2021/dec/26/trusted-news-initiative-freedom-press/
      https://dailyexpose.uk/2021/08/29/the-trusted-news-initiative-a-bbc-led-organisation-censoring-public-health-experts-who-oppose-the-official-narrative-on-covid-19/

      Truth seekers have not alternative but to seek out what you refer to as “crap sources”.
      Perhaps the crap sources ARE the TNI…. (AKA main-stream media). We are witnessing the fall of CNN currently, once a trusted media source. Over the past five years CNN degraded itself into one of the biggest “crap” news sources of the world, all the while promoting itself as “the most trusted”. – puke

      • Concerned patient,
        They best hope they are crap…
        There are other ways to prevent sickness besides a vaccine where 1200 died in the trail.
        That number can not be disputed.
        Pfizer redacted number of personnel stating it was a matter of national security
        Supposedly, there was about 42,000
        So the death rate from the pfizer vaccine, .2 percent, about the same as the flu

        let people believe the DOD response that the data from their system was wrong…..
        Only those 4 years,hmmmm
        (That would mean alot of VA claims being redone)

        Hopefully, Novavax will turn Israel around.

        Quotes from people that have 1st hand knowledge

        My uncle got the shot. He then developed AFIB of the Heart. A friend of mine got the shot and he also got AFIB of the heart… my brother got the shot and he has neurological problems of his feet. Another person I know got the booster and he has neurological problems in his hand.

        A close relative died just a week after her second shot, her brother had a minor stroke. Another relative had a major stroke soon after his shot..however no one wants to even think that it could be an adverse reaction. A good friend has had shingles three times since June, coincidentally after her second shot!

        My best mate’s family had a cousin die of heart attack at 24yrs old (fit healthy), sister in law with severe nerve damage resulting in debilitating involuntary tremors and my sisters friend had a heart attack but survived. All occurred on the same day of vaccine

      • @concerned patient

        Truth seekers ….

        Ah, yes, ‘truth seekers’ …

        Maybe a dumb question, but have you found any ‘truth’ yet in the huge piles of bullcrap that you favour over real information sources such as scientists and other experts? Just curious …

        (And please note that I don’t get my information from any media channels, but straight from the horse’s mouth, i.e. the actual scientists and other experts.)

        • @Richard Rasker

          lol…. the funny thing is Richard, the media sources that you and others on this forum seem to hold mostly in high regard are the very ones that saw it necessary to form a coalition to proclaim their own specific narratives “truth” … Yes, exactly, the TNI (Trusted News Initiative).

          Couldn’t be further from the truth.

          BTW- science has revealed to us that it doesn’t have the truth… because it keeps changing all the time…. no ?

          • @concerned patient

            ” BTW- science has revealed to us that it doesn’t have the truth… because it keeps changing all the time…. no ?”

            Only someone who is utterly ignorant of science can make that comment with a straight face. Thank you for continuously entertaining us with your ignorance.

      • @concerned patient

        You always gave me the impression that you are nothing but a replicator of bullshit “truths”. I never knew you were into truth seeking. Now that I know, I can certainly help you with “truth” seeking. As you already know I sell tinfoil hats of all kinds, pointy ones, blunt ones, invisible ones and my best seller, The MAGA-hatter, it is a MAGA hat lined inside with tinfoil. Recently, I invented a new kind, I call it The Bullshit Seeker. It is a standard tinfoil hat, but it has two pointy tinfoil antennas connected to a 5G chip, it allows the wearer to seek and communicate with other tinfoil wearing loons. This new hat has a patented feature that lets all tinfoil hatters seek each other and form their own network dubbed “Worldwide Hatter Chatter”. With this invention tinfoil wearers don’t have to use the internet anymore, thereby avoiding all kinds of government snooping, censorship, and big-media shenanigans like the one you are talking about.

        The reason I am telling you all this is that I need some beta testers like you and Jeffrey Bloom to test my product before market debut. If you beta test my product, I will give you .0000000005 percent share of my company. When my company is worth trillions, even such a small percentage is worth a lot. Are you ready to be a part of something big?

    • @Jeffrey Bloom

      Thank you for letting me know of all the right-wing tripe you and other RWNJs read. You helped me compile a huge list of such websites where I advertise my tinfoil hats. I have been ramping up production to keep up with the demand from your antivaxxer friends. I ship my hats all over the world but I manufacture them in US and I hire only US citizens.
      MTHGA!! (Make tinfoil hats great again)

      Unfortunately, I don’t have time to have our usual banter anymore, business is booming!!!!!!!!

      Goodbye!

      Your friend,
      Tin Tin, the tinfoil hatter

  • @Jeffrey Bloom

    Jeffrey, I’ll respond to you since your are like minded to me, I get exhausted with some other folks here that don’t get it.
    I’m aware of Pfizer’s BS. You can include the FDA CDC WHO and Fauci.

    It was predicted from the beginning that these vaccine injections would actually promote other illnesses due to patient immune response degradation. We are seeing the effects of that now.
    Yes, this pandemic is an anomaly, in that this is the first time that many a patient if more fearful of the vaccine than the disease.

    Even though I’m labeled an anti-vaxer here, I have big hopes for Novavax vaccine also. Evidently one easily becomes and anti-vaxer if you don’t appreciate EUA vaccines, or if you don’t appreciate mRNA vaccines. Novavax vaccine had been approved in most countries now (save USA FDA) currently being rolled out in many countries. Many patients around the world have been waiting for Novavax vaccine with high hopes. Many many patients do NOT want the current failed vaccines.

    I agree with you. No way in the world that your circle of friends and family had that high rate of medical issues as a mere consequence in relation to when they were jabbed.

    • @concerned patient

      I have big hopes for Novavax vaccine also

      You prefer Nuvaxovid? Ok, take a look.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novavax_COVID-19_vaccine

      The vaccine is produced by creating an engineered baculovirus containing a gene for a modified SARS-CoV-2 spike protein.

      Does this rings a bell? Genetic engenieering. This is what mRNA vaccines are always accused of by vaccination skeptics, although it is not true.

      The spike protein was modified by incorporating two proline amino acids in order to stabilize the pre-fusion form of the protein; this same 2P modification is being used in several other COVID-19 vaccines.

      “several other COVID-19 vaccines”? Such as Moderna or BionTech perhaps?

      The baculovirus is made to infect a culture of Sf9 moth cells, which then create the spike protein and display it on their cell membranes. The spike proteins are harvested and assembled onto a synthetic lipid nanoparticle about 50 nanometers across, each displaying up to 14 spike proteins.

      You will be injected with proteins produced by moth cells. Aren’t you afraid that you will turn into a moth (analogous to Steve Guttenberg in “The Fly”). 😉

      The formulation includes a saponin-based adjuvant.

      An adjuvant. A completely new one at that. According to the logic of the so-called vaccination skeptics, this would have to be tested over many many years to find out that it is not harmful to humans. BTW, adjuvants are evil anyway, as they are responsible for allergies and numerous other nasties. At least that is what the Bollingers or R. Kennedy, Jr. claim.

      If you detect irony or satire in my text, keep it to yourself. 😉

      • @RPGNo1

        You nailed it!!

        🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

      • Pretty good data is the medical billing data from hospitals where the diagnosis of vaccine injury is represented by ICD code. In the American military three whistleblowers have apparently revealed a significant increase in adverse events from the Defense Medical Epidemiology Database (DMED).

        According to them:

        Miscarriages among female U.S. military personnel had increased 300 percent in 2021 compared to the five-year average. Nearly 300 percent increase in cancer diagnoses. They increased from 38,700 per year in the five-year average to 114,645 in the first months of 2021. Neurological problems increased by 1,000 percent, from 82,000 in the five-year average to 863,000.

        Further:

        Myocardial infarction went up 269 percent.
        Paralysis: Increase of 291 percent
        Congenital malformations (in children of military personnel): increase of 156 percent
        Infertility in women: Increase of 471 percent
        Pulmonary embolisms: increase of 467 percent

        https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horowitz-whistleblowers-share-dod-medical-data-that-blows-vaccine-safety-debate-wide-open#toggle-gdpr

        Against this backdrop a new forthcoming study by Seneff et al. is of interest.

        DOI: 10.22541/au.164276411.10570847/v1

        It takes up the problem of the innate immune suppressing effect of the vaccines, also in connection to the infamous quadruple protein complexes, they state:

        “These vaccinations have now been shown to downregulate critical pathways related to CANCER surveillance, INFECTION control, and cellular homeostasis.”

        What fits well the recent utterance of Prof. Yaakov Jerris, the head of the coronavirus department at Ichilov Hospital in Tel Aviv. He said in a television interview with Israel’s Channel 13 News, that right now, most of our severe cases are vaccinated and that they’ve had at least three injections. Between seventy and eighty percent of the severe cases are VACCINATED. So the vaccine has no relevance to severe disease, which is why only twenty to twenty-five percent of our patients are unvaccinated.

        These break through infections aka vaccine failure has been observed massively in many countries. And as stated by Prof. Peter C. Gøtzsche and colleagues in the BMJ:

        “…data on the only outcome properly tested in randomised trials, the prevention of cases by two vaccinations, appear unreliable, possibly due to RAPIDLY WANING effects or other factors, and other outcomes and procedures have not been investigated in randomised trials, meaning there is no secure evidence either way.”

        Besides impaired adaptive immunity Seneff et al. point also to the potential causal relationship of:

        neurodegenerative disease, myocarditis, immune thrombocytopenia, Bell’s palsy, liver disease, increased tumorigenesis, and DNA damage.

        The authors rely on the VAERS database, which is held by many critics as unreliable since open to anybody, but as the findings strongly resemble those propagated from the closed military database DMED, the claims seems confirmed and a certain reliability of VAERS in turn.

        An informed decision is only possible on basis of a proper risk/benefit ratio, what yet needs to be further determined as many health professionals state as: “Coercing people to have a covid vaccine,…, is not justified due to the prevailing uncertainty about the overall benefits of the vaccines, the unfavourable risk-benefit ratio for many groups, and, not least, the lack of data on long-term harms.”

        https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2957/rr-1

        • @DanLucas
          This of course is total BS from a couple of incompetents, debunked already. Just like VAERS, this military database is NOT suitable to establish causation.

          See
          https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/antivaxxers-misuse-the-defense-epidemiology-medical-database-to-demonize-covid-19-vaccines/

          Just think about it: in less than one year time, cancer cases in general have gone up almost tenfold? And breast cancer almost fivefold? FYI: cancer does not arise in just one year, even upon intense exposure to seriously carcinogenic sources.
          Another red flag is the huge variety in totally unrelated conditions that have apparently skyrocketed. This means that there is no actual medical problem, but that there is something seriously wrong with the data.

          Every time when you see a long list of very serious but widely varying conditions tied to one cause or cure, you can safely assume that what you are reading is nonsense. Vaccines don’t cause all these things, just like e.g. drinking bleach doesn’t cure them.

          Seneff …

          … is notoriously incompetent in the things she talks about, and generally fails to provide credible evidence for the claims she makes. This is someone you can safely ignore, no matter what she says.

          • @ Richard Rasker

            Thank you for the link. Yes, Gorski makes some points that are worth considering.

            In any case, if there is a genuine effect on basis of vaccination, it will show up in health insurance billing data, etc., sooner rather than later!!!

            Gorski’s points may also explain things only in part? Be that as it may, there are many studies also listed by Seneff et al., which provide other explanations, such as potential effects on cancer regulating genes, as Jeffrey has remarked, like BRCA 1 and BRCA 2, etc., which are also specifically associated with increases in breast cancer, as observed in DMED. Aggressive cancer can also grow very quickly, whether the alleged negative immune effects due to a mRNA vaccination allow cancer rates to explode within a year, one must verify or observe. But other AE figures like myocarditis, etc., are, as you know, provided by the CDC and acknowledged regardless…the rest time will show.

          • Using Wikipedia as a source to ‘criticize an MIT professor and researcher’ is all I need to know. I can safely assume that you are actually ‘full of nonsense.’
            You have ZERO authority, education or technical background to be levelling ANY such claims WHATSOEVER, against a serious and well trained scientist as are the likes of Seneff! Just who do you think you are??? Do you have any education whatsoever in the field that Seneff is published in? I think not. Should keep opinions to self if can’t back it up with your own counter research in the same field. And to equate ‘drinking bleach’ as a cure is ACTUALLY notoriously incompetent. Last I looked, Richard Rasker is NOT on the faculty of MIT. Or is he??? I mean, how dare you. Could you please present your publications here for scrutiny, I at least will criticize them on merit and argument, logic, reason, and methods, not on ‘hearsay and slander.’ Really, ‘no matter what she says.’ ??? Really? is that at all ‘mature’ and or even academically courteous?

          • T. Baliol wrote

            Could you please present your publications here for scrutiny,

            @T. Baliol

            Wow..you cited countless sources to support your claim in another post of yours: https://edzardernst.com/2022/01/the-moral-and-intellectual-decay-of-covid-disinformants/#comment-137302

            Do as I say, not as I do, amirite?

        • Dan

          What fits well the recent utterance of Prof. Yaakov Jerris, the head of the coronavirus department at Ichilov Hospital in Tel Aviv. He said in a television interview with Israel’s Channel 13 News, that right now, most of our severe cases are vaccinated and that they’ve had at least three injections. Between seventy and eighty percent of the severe cases are VACCINATED. So the vaccine has no relevance to severe disease, which is why only twenty to twenty-five percent of our patients are unvaccinated.

          90% of the Israeli population is vaccinated. So you’re telling us that 25% of the hospitalisations come from 10% of the population. You’re demonstrating that the vaccines are indeed effective at reducing the risk of severe disease.

          If you want me and others to demolish the rest of your typical ill-informed 2+2=flowerpot antivax twaddle, please let us know.

          • Where their is risk, their must be choice.
            Speaking of twaddle, just because someone is ‘pro safety’ i.e., want to know the ‘safety features’ of product X, and want to know the ‘risks and benefits of purchasing said product X’ doesn’t mean therefore that they are ‘Anti product X!’ It means they are ‘pro safety,’ and make an educated choice on whether to use, consume or otherwise engage with ‘product X.’ If a car is ‘known to explode upon rear end impact,’ you can call me ‘anti-rear end exploding car.’ If and injection immune therapy X, is known to cause heart tissue scarring, you can call me ‘anti-injection immune therapy X.’ Folks on this forum REALLY need to learn some damn basic logic. ALL immune systems are not equal. Pleased to direct you to ‘immunosenescence.’

          • Lenny
            “You’re demonstrating that the vaccines are indeed effective at reducing the risk of severe disease.”

            The lie is that the vaccines were about reducing severe disease from the beginning, that is simply not true. We were ALL told that the vaccines would stop the transmission and spread of the virus. That the vaccines would end the pandemic, and that when 70% of the population was vaccinated that we would reach heard immunity and we could go back to life as we knew it previously.

            That never happened, not the herd immunity, nor the vaccinated being immune to infection.
            It was after we discovered that the vaccines were ineffective at stopping the virus, that they changed the narrative to say the vaccines were intended to prevent severe disease.

            LIES

            Furthermore, we are still not sure that the vaccines do not prevent disease. Not only are the statistics clouded about the covid virus efficacy, but the longer term effects of the vaccines with regard to other chronic disease are still being weighed.

        • @DanLucas

          The authors rely on the VAERS database, which is held by many critics as unreliable since open to anybody,

          Are you telling us that the author’s missed the following disclaimer on VAERS’s website? https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html

          VAERS accepts reports of adverse events and reactions that occur following vaccination. Healthcare providers, vaccine manufacturers, and the public can submit reports to the system. While very important in monitoring vaccine safety, VAERS reports alone cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness. The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable. In large part, reports to VAERS are voluntary, which means they are subject to biases. This creates specific limitations on how the data can be used scientifically. Data from VAERS reports should always be interpreted with these limitations in mind.

          Emphasis mine.

          Literally everyone in the scientific community is aware of this limitation. But that doesn’t stop antivaxxers from using VAERS in their shitty analyses and trumpet imaginary claims about vaccine injury.

          but as the findings strongly resemble those propagated from the closed military database DMED, the claims seems confirmed and a certain reliability of VAERS in turn.

          Great! now they found a new database to molest and misuse to their advantage.

          • R Daneel

            The illness data was not retrieved from VAERS.
            The Department of Defense has their own statistical documentation recording system…. DEMD (Defense Medical Epidemiology Database). That is where the statistical information came from.

            You got any other misinformation ?

          • @concerned patient

            Do you even make an attempt to read and comprehend the posts you respond to?

            I was responding to DanLucas regarding Seneff et. al. where they used notoriously unreliable VAERS data. Try to keep up with the conversation.

            https://www.researchgate.net/publication/357994624_Innate_Immune_Suppression_by_SARS-CoV-2_mRNA_Vaccinations_The_role_of_G-quadruplexes_exosomes_and_microRNAs

            To all resident antivaxxer loons:

            With regards to DMED (recently it turned out to be an antivaxxers wet dream), the military confirmed that the data for the period of 2016-2020 was corrupt and underreported, but data for 2021 is accurately reported. So, any comparison made between those two periods would obviously and erroneously show an increase in health issues.

            https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/jan/31/instagram-posts/numbers-were-based-faulty-data-military-spokespers/

            But Peter Graves, spokesperson for the Defense Health Agency’s Armed Forces Surveillance Division, told PolitiFact by email that “in response to concerns mentioned in news reports” the division reviewed data in the DMED “and found that the data was incorrect for the years 2016-2020.”

            Officials compared numbers in the DMED with source data in the DMSS and found that the total number of medical diagnoses from those years “represented only a small fraction of actual medical diagnoses.” The 2021 numbers, however, were up-to-date, giving the “appearance of significant increased occurrence of all medical diagnoses in 2021 because of the underreported data for 2016-2020,” Graves said.

            The DMED system has been taken offline to “identify and correct the root-cause of the data corruption,” Graves said.”

          • Antivaxxers misuse the Defense Medical Epidemiology Database to demonize COVID-19 vaccines, by David Gorski, 7 February 2022, Science-Based Medicine
            https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/about-science-based-medicine/

          • R Daneel & Pete Atkins

            That is the biggest bunch of BS I ever heard of.
            Now the DOD wants to claim self incompetence over a five year period ? (2016-2020 underreporting), if that were the case why didn’t the DOD come out and say so previous to the whistleblowers revealing their findings ?… really ?

            The legacy media controls the narrative, the facts are not the facts. History is re-written by those in power.
            “History is a set of lies agreed upon.”

          • Are you telling us that the common folks, who may have serious, life altering, long lasting adverse effects to an injection, that these common folks’ their ‘perceptions, pains, and loss, is ‘somehow not at all valid? IS THAT IT? That sounds like the worst kind of Xenophobia, elitism and ‘dismissal of the common person’s real observations and ‘voice,’ I could imagine possible. I’ve seen this time and time again in my career. ‘Holier than thou’ folks ‘dismissing the real pains and sufferings of a people,’ because their voices do NOT meet their criteria of ‘veracity’ and ‘data gathering?’ REALLY??? Is that where we are? I want you personally, to track each and every one of those who reported on that data base, visit them, see them, take down their story, THEN come back to me with your criticism. I remember, growing up, hearing the stories of how our relatives were ‘experimented on by the medical profession.’ AND no one, NOT A ONE believed it. Until it was believed.

    • RPGNo1 says:

      You will be injected with proteins produced by moth cells. Aren’t you afraid that you will turn into a moth (analogous to Steve Guttenberg in “The Fly”).

      @concerned patient

      In case you didn’t understand what RPGNo1 was saying, with mRNA vaccines your cells would make the spike protein. In the case of Novavax’s Nuvaxovid, you will be directly injected with spike protein produced by moth cells.

      Look at a picture of your future self:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_armyworm#/media/File:Spodoptera_frugiperda.jpg 😂🤣

      • To both of you;
        I know what RPGNo1 message meant, I need no translation.
        If you are attempting to say the two vaccines are the same science, you are wrong.

        It won’t be the first time that vaccines were created using other than human cells. The fact that animal cells are used to create vaccines or therapies is not of consequence, this is also the case with previous vaccines. Moths are not much different than using cells from dogs or chicken eggs.

        To say that the Novavax science is the same as mRNA is nonsense…. lol

        The problem with mRNA is that it requires the body to manufacture the spike protein as well as fight the intruder once your body see’s the spike protein. So, then every organ in your body will now has cells manufacturing this spike protein. mRNA vaccines contain the instructions to make part of the spike that instruct YOUR cells to make it…very different. With mRNA science, vaccines also need to protect the instructions in a cover that can be immunogenic, so it’s very different. This is where the inflammation and relatively high levels of side effects come into play.

        The difference with Novavax and older vaccine science is the spike is a finished product before it becomes part of the vaccine. Batches can be tested to check the veracity of the spike produced.
        Novavax vaccine (and non-mRNA) bypasses this spike manufacturing in the body, instead introducing it directly. Less inflammation, cell resources, less side effects… etc.

        Try again.

        • @concerned patient

          LOL…either you did not detect sarcasm in our posts or kept it to yourself like RPGNo1 asked you to.
          Besides, we weren’t claiming or implying that both vaccines are the same, you made that up. Try reading again!!

        • Your “information” about the spike protein is nonsense.

          I am sorry for you, but you have zero clue about immunology, biology, genetics, or related sciences, as you have proven again and again in your comments. Consuming Facebook, Youtube or dubious websites is not an adequate substitute for a solid basic science education, which you quite obviously lack.

          • Hey nutter. Their are literally thousands upon thousands of MIT, Harvard, Cornell, Oxford, Stanford etc. etc. etc. university prof’s lectures on YOUTUBE. So, your point is without merit!

            Additionally, I do have a science background, and a background in biology, and it is true, for only one example, the S Protein is only one marker of recognition for the immune system, as it is ‘presented via vaccination.’ The Sars-Cov-2 genome has many ORFs and encodes for 50 non-structural, structural, and accessory proteins.
            Thus, “Natural Immunity equals an immunity gained from 50 non-structural proteins and four structural proteins.”
            Versus:
            “Four structural proteins in sars covey 2 spike, membrane, and envelope are embedded in this outer membrane, providing the distinct shape and structure of the virus. Within the virus particle, the RNA is tightly coiled and coated with a fourth protein, nucleocapsid.
            Thus vaccine immunity is immunity gained, somehow, beyond all reason, via ONE STRUCTURAL PROTEIN – A SPIKE! Is that why we see constant peaks of infection, then valleys shortly after mass vaccination, followed by a peak again? As we now know, it is total and complete folly, not only to use a new method of delivery in a mass population via this vaccination, but also, total and complete folly, indeed HIGHLY dangerous, to mass vaccinate mid-way a pandemic due to the evolutionary pressure put on the circulating pathogen, but also on the vaccinal antibodies! It doesn’t take a genius to realize that viruses are highly mutable and can easily adapt, indeed, in their very ‘code of life,’ are MEANT to adapt to survive virtually anything, and certainly, no vaccine hastily developed in a year without proper trials could ever get a population out of a pandemic, ESPECIALLY when they do not cut transmission or replication. Nor could they work, with the vaccine only giving the immune system recognition of one S protein!

          • T. Baliol wrote

            “Natural Immunity equals an immunity gained from 50 non-structural proteins and four structural proteins.”

            @T. Baliol

            I bet you have tons of sources to back up this claim, but you are just too busy to cite them. Your rear end doesn’t count as a source.

            BTW whose sock puppet are you?

          • T. Baliol wrote

            “Four structural proteins in sars covey 2 spike, membrane, and envelope are embedded in this outer membrane, providing the distinct shape and structure of the virus. …

            which is gobbledygook, as would be known by a person who states “I do have a science background, and a background in biology”; also known by anyone who can parse a sentence written in English. I seem to have forgotten when biology stopped being a science.

          • @T. Baliol

            If you claim to have a science background in biology, than I won the Nobel Prize in chemistry last year.

            By the way, that was a nice attempt at a Gish gallop. I am awarding you a star of excellence. 👏

        • @concerned patient
          Your ignorance on the subject is only equalled by the arrogance with which you keep blabbing about it.

          The problem with mRNA is that it requires the body to manufacture the spike protein as well as fight the intruder once your body see’s the spike protein.

          FYI: this happens EVERY TIME you get infected with an RNA virus(*): the virus merges with cells of the body, at which point its mRNA is released into the cytoplasm, and the cell starts making viral particles. ALL viral particles. Which then assemble into new viruses, exit the cell (often destroying it in the process), and infecting new cells. And as soon as these new viruses emerge from the cells, the immune system starts attacking it.
          An mRNA vaccine does far less than this: just like a virus, it manoeuvres mRNA into cells, which then start making the viral protein (again just as with a viral infection) – and as soon as this viral protein emerges at the outside of a cell, the immune system starts attacking it. But unlike a real viral infection, this where it ends. The mRNA degrades and disappears from the cell within mere days, after which no more spike protein is produced, and the existing protein is cleared from the body just as fast.

          *: And I wouldn’t be surprised if this event, i.e. RNA viruses invading cells in your body, happens lots of times every day. But because the immune system has made acquaintance with these viruses many times before, you don’t actually fall ill; the infection is cleared without you noticing a thing, even though quite a few cells get destroyed in the process.

          So, then every organ in your body will now has cells manufacturing this spike protein.

          Nope. After vaccination, the mRNA ends up in a relatively small amount of cells at the injection site. What you describe is what happens when an actual virus makes you sick: it infects cells, which then produce all viral components, which then assemble into new viruses, which go on to infect new cells. LOTS of new cells. But even then this does not happen to ‘every organ in the body’, as there are many cell types that aren’t so susceptible to this virus, or are protected in other ways. E.g. the brain does not get infected easily. Which is a Good Thing™, because otherwise, every simple cold would quickly exacerbate into a life-threatening case of meningitis.

          mRNA vaccines contain the instructions to make part of the spike that instruct YOUR cells to make it …

          Just like what happens when you get into contact with viruses – and that happens all the time.

          This is where the inflammation and relatively high levels of side effects come into play.

          Oh dear … this is a rather nasty case of proctophasia … Those mRNA vaccines are NOT associated with significantly more or other side effects compared to other vaccines, and they are associated with astronomically fewer ‘side effects’ compared to the actual disease.
          Once again: the mRNA vaccine does not do anything that an actual viral infection does not do. And unlike a viral infection, it does not spread throughout the body, nor does it cause serious side effects, barring very rare cases.
          So summarized: no, an mRNA vaccine is not the same as a vaccine containing ready-made spike protein, but it DOES use the exact same mechanism to create spike protein that a virus uses. And the end result IS exactly the same: spike protein ends up in the body, and is recognized by the immune system.

          But I must say that I admire the way how you do not let your stubborn ignorance get in the way of spreading misinformation several times a day. And I’ll be watching with interest how long our gracious host will let you continue to do so.

          • @Richard Rasker

            Dear Richard
            You’re working too hard to make it more complicated than it is.
            The mRNA vaccines are failures, just accept it.

            In time we will know if the Novavax vaccine is superior to mRNA.

          • Dear @concerned patient
            You’re working hard to look like a total ignoramus.
            The mRNA vaccines are a hugh success, just accept it. They saved billions of lifes.

            The Novavax vaccine will NOT be superior to mRNA.

          • So wrong. I will get back to you. Retiring to bed now. But your bias is so clear, its just amazing!

        • @concerned patient

          The mRNA vaccines are failures

          Thank you for this wonderful example of Covid misinformation, it is really appreciated!

          Now I only need two more, and I can call BS Bingo … So keep it up!

  • Thanks DanLucas

    I was just about to post this;
    Whistleblowers relay medical statistics from DOD about drastic case acceleration in various serious disease now evident in the US military personal as of 2021. (after mass vaccination)
    https://ussanews.com/senator-johnson-sends-demand-letter-to-defense-secretary-austin-for-information-on-vaccine-injuries-in-armed-forces/

    You won’t find this information from legacy media. (Trusted News Initiative -TNI)

  • From a pathologist
    “I started seeing the uptick in cancers. Well, why is that? Because mechanistically things that were always supposed to be on were unintentionally shut off. And in addition to that, we have other gene receptors to which the spike protein binds the P53 tumor suppressor gene, the guardian of our genome dysregulation in that gene can also lead to cancer pathways, well we know part of this spike protein binds to that. The BRCA gene you hear about in breast cancers, same thing. It binds to that.”

    • @Jeffrey Bloom

      From a pathologist

      Hmm, let’s see … ah: this is just another lie from Ryan Cole, known for spreading lies about Covid-19 vaccines and prescribing unapproved medication to patients.

      Thank you for staying firmly on-topic, providing yet another example of a morally and intellectually depraved person who spreads the most egregious disinformation about Covid-19. Your many on-topic contributions to this thread are valued immensely!

    • From what publication is that quotation taken?

  • Richard Rasker,
    “Nope. After vaccination, the mRNA ends up in a relatively small amount of cells at the injection site.”
    You might want to fact check what you said above…
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRyR5UZ-Gls
    Then again, I guess these guys are lying and spreading misinformation as well, right?

    • @Jeffrey Bloom

      Then again, I guess these guys are lying and spreading misinformation as well, right?

      Yes, they probably are. Then again, I haven’t even clicked the link, because only very stupid people come up with YouTube videos in order to ‘prove’ their point in discussions like this. And those videos are always a total waste of time.

      Anyway, thank you, and keep the examples coming!

    • Jeffrey

      Lovely. We deconstruct your witless pratings with hard, empirical, published facts. Which must be somewhat galling for you. So you try to do it to us by backing up your arguments with the hapless ramblings of the imbecilic, long-derided and completely irellevant Robert Malone on a YouTube video.

      You would be amusing if you weren’t so pathetic.

  • Jeffrey Bloom, concerned patient, DanLucas and a few more commenting anti-vaxxers and corona deniers whose names me eluded:

    All of them play pigeon chess. They just knock all the pieces over. Then shit all over the board. Then strut around like they won.

  • Yes, those three military whistleblowers wanted to lie and throw away their careers.
    So why would they lie?
    Now why would the military want to lie saying only 2021 was correct data and other four years was wrong?
    I doubt you can answer those
    Why not have a national televised debate?
    CDC is “about as consistent as a paper cup in a windstorm”

  • “Why not have a national televised debate?”

    Because there’s nothing to debate, Jeffrey.

    Every fatuous and illl-informed statement you’ve made has been shown to be false. A sensible person – a scientist – would learn from this. But you are neither.

    Your position and that of all antivaxers is one based on faith, not logic. Faith is impervious to fact, as you have repeatedly shown. A debate would achieve nothing.

  • Lenny,
    I beg to differ.
    https://www.flemingmethod.com/the-pfizer-vaccine-blood
    https://rumble.com/vrfevb-lymphocytes-invading-hearts-and-lungs-of-the-
    https://westernstandardonline.com/2021/12/watch-bc-doctor-reviews-shocking-stats-from-released-pfizer-documents/
    You all think these three are lying, but can not tell me why?
    Where is Fauci’s science?
    Your “faith” is those three are lying.
    Where are your facts to dispute them?
    Just like fact checker will claim 1200 did not die from the vaccine in the trial so I guess it must have been food poisoning, right?
    None died out of 7500 in the Novavax trails so I guess they were simply served better food.
    let us see what the International Criminal Court rules and that counts far more than what you or I think.

    BCD

    • I’ve already shown your fatuous 1200 claim to be false Jeffrey. That you refuse to accept this is your problem, not science’s.

      I don’t think the three are lying. They believe what they’re saying, same as you. But like you, they’re wrong. We have already linked to the debunking of their claims.

      Out of interest, what is your background in science?

      You question the scientific credentials of Anthony Fauci? You’re an idiot. Period.

      The legal claims of the antivax loons are about as consequential as their scientific ones. They will be laughed out of court. If they manage to get that far,

    • You all think these three are lying, but can not tell me why?

      Why would they lie? I don’t know, I don’t think anyone here can read minds and determine the motives behind why someone is lying. One can only guess, they are probably trying to make a name for themselves by going against the facts and clearly, they are being successful thanks to antivaxxer ignoramuses like you.

      For someone like you who believes in the extraordinary, i.e., Fauci, CDC, FDA, Pfizer and millions of doctors across the world are conspiring and lying to the public about mRNA vaccines, the answer should be very simple, those three are most likely lying too. If the entire medical establishment can come together, conspire, and lie to the world about vaccines resulting in billions of people getting the mRNA vaccine, then it would be very easy for one random no-name doctor with a microscope to make shit up.

      • Look, don’t worry. If the data resembles genuine adverse effects these should surface in other data sets sooner rather than latter.

        In any case, Pfizer saw a need for touch-up:

        https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/pfizer-quietly-adds-language-warning-unfavorable-pre-clinical-clinical-or-safety-data-may

        How about some critical thinking? Too much was written about it, even by Cochrane founder Peter Gotzsche:

        https://www.amazon.com/Deadly-Medicines-Organised-Crime-Healthcare/dp/1846198844

        • @DanLucas

          …. Zero Hedge …

          https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge
          “Zero Hedge is a batshit insane Austrian school finance blog run by two pseudonymous founders …”

          And thank you once again for presenting us with an excellent example of twisted-minded misinformation(*)! Keep up the good work!

          *: And giving us the opportunity to show it for what it is, of course.

        • DanLucas wrote “If the data resembles genuine adverse effects…”

          The databases contain adverse event data, not adverse effect data, plus a great deal of uncorrelated noise. Whenever a large dataset is trawled for the purpose of confirming a preconceived hypothesis — e.g., data resembling genuine adverse effects — matching patterns can be found, quite easily, even if the data were generated by a random variable. This data analysis method has various names, including:

          data dredging, data fishing, data snooping, data butchery, torturing the data until it confesses.
          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_dredging

          If you are clever enough, you will be able to rationalize any data that seem to contradict your belief and find more support in the data rather than less.
          — Robert Todd Carroll (2004). Becoming a Critical Thinker, Chapter One – Critical Thinking.

          You appear to be uneducable; wilfully ignorant.

          • I am deeply impressed, Pete, what would the world be without you? You know what I implied.

            At least the discussed immune weakening mechanism by vaccination can potentially mean a very accelerated cancer growth.

            https://www.authorea.com/users/455597/articles/552937-innate-immune-suppression-by-sars-cov-2-mrna-vaccinations-the-role-of-g-quadruplexes-exosomes-and-micrornas

            Even without immune weakening, cancer can grow rapidly within months even within weeks, depending on the type and stage. Possibly, as a soldier, there are also other influencing factors that could modulate the growth EMFs, etc,… We will see if the trends show up elsewhere. Do you got the official CDC myocarditis figures?

          • @DanLucas

            … immune weakening mechanism by vaccination …

            I don’t even have to look at what you’re linking to, as the description is already patent nonsense, probably from a bunch of scientifically incompetent idiots.

            Hey, given the apparently endless supply of crap you come up with, maybe you should go into the fertilizer business? Just a thought …

          • 17. Conclusions
            “It is imperative that worldwide administration of the mRNA vaccinations be stopped immediately until further studies are conducted to determine the extent of the potential pathological consequences outlined in this paper. It is not possible for these vaccinations to be considered part of a public health campaign without a detailed analysis of the human impact of the potential collateral damage. It is also imperative that VAERS and other monitoring system be optimized to detect signals related to the health consequences of mRNA vaccination we have outlined. We believe the upgraded VAERS monitoring system described in the Harvard Pilgrim Health Care, Inc. study, but unfortunately not supported by the CDC, would be a valuable start in this regard [208].
            In the end, we are not exaggerating to say that billions of lives are at stake. We call on the public health institutions to demonstrate, with evidence, why the issues discussed in this paper are not relevant to public health, or to acknowledge that they are and to act accordingly. Until our public health institutions do what is right in this regard, we encourage all individuals to make their own health care decisions with this information as a contributing factor in those decisions.”

            https://www.authorea.com/users/455597/articles/552937-innate-immune-suppression-by-sars-cov-2-mrna-vaccinations-the-role-of-g-quadruplexes-exosomes-and-micrornas

          • The last author on that paper is none other than Peter McCullough: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_A._McCullough a well-known antivaxxer and promoter of HCQ.

            In April 2020, McCullough led a study of the medication hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for COVID-19 for the Baylor Scott & White Medical Center. McCullough told The Wall Street Journal that the urgency of the public health crisis justified compromises on best practices in medical research.[28][29] In July, after major studies found hydroxychloroquine was ineffective against COVID-19 and the Food and Drug Administration revoked its emergency use authorization (EUA), McCullough supported a second EUA.[23]

            He is being sued by his former employer https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/93936 for affiliating himself with the employer even after he is longer employed there.

            Baylor Scott & White Health sued former employee and cardiologist Peter McCullough, MD, last week, alleging that he illegitimately affiliated himself with its facilities when promoting controversial views about COVID-19.

            Nearly 6 months after McCullough’s employment had ended, he continued to use his former professional titles — such as “vice chief of internal medicine at Baylor University Medical Center” — in media interviews in which he spread his opinions about the pandemic, the lawsuit alleged.

          • That “study” isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on. The primary author, Stephanie Seneff, is a loon with no background in biomedical science who has a long history of using predatory journals such as this to publish ignorant, paranoid 2+2=wheelbarrow nonsense which gets laughed at and ignored by all except her fellow loons who dream that it lends their fantasies significance. It does no such thing. The second author is a naturopath and hence utterly incapable of critical evaluation of evidence. I don’t think we need to give this any further consideration.

          • QUOTE
            Stephanie Seneff is a real senior research scientist at the Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory (CSAIL) at MIT…

            She is also a crackpot, pseudoscientist and conspiracy theorist trying to write about issues in biology and medicine, fields she demonstrably doesn’t understand. She has also managed to become something of an authority in the antivaccine and anti-GMO movements since people in these movements don’t notice or care that she has no competence in those fields as long as her credentials in completely unrelated fields give her crackpot rantings a sheen of authority.

            Diagnosis: It is worth emphasizing again: Stephanie Seneff has no expertise, background or competence in anything related to medicine, biology or how to use population studies. And she has done no research whatsoever on the topics she writes about. Her output isn’t studies, but conspiracy rants superficially structured like research papers and published in pay-to-publish journals.

            https://americanloons.blogspot.com/2019/08/2234-stephanie-seneff.html

          • @Pete Attkins

            Hilarous Pete

            You refute a blog from a MIT graduate with a blog (American Loons) with an unknown author.
            Nice work, keep it up.

          • @concerned troll

            How about this link?

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephanie_Seneff#Biology_and_medical_topics

            You lost, pal. Try again. 😛

          • @RPRNo1

            Yes, it’s obvious that she has gained a bias against her due to her outspoken stance of glyphosate.
            This is a well established trend of the Trusted News Initiative (TNI), that Wikipedia is a part of.

        • Zero hedge spreads conspiracy theories and fringe rhetoric. It is connected with radical right and alt-right. The site was banned from big social media a number of times.

          You have proven once again that you are not concerned with facts but that you are only interested in trolling.

          BTW, Peter Gøtzsche is not undisputed. His membership from Cochrane was terminted in 2018 because of an “ongoing, consistent pattern of disruptive and inappropriate behaviours …, taking place over a number of years, which undermined this culture and were detrimental to the charity’s work, reputation and members.”

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_C._G%C3%B8tzsche#Expulsion_from_Cochrane

          But even he would certainly refuse to be appropriated by conspiracy theorists, as you are trying to do.

  • @DanLucas

    You and your antivaxxer buddies so far have not demonstrated that you all understand the difference between critical thinking and conspiracy theorizing.

  • “Zero hedge spreads conspiracy theories and fringe rhetoric. It is connected with radical right and alt-right. The site was banned from big social media a number of times.”

    Ohhhh, the same social media that is part of the Trusted News Initiative ?….. gotcha.

    The very news and social media outlets (corporations) that assign themselves the title of “trusted news”, they are the very ones leading the charge to censor all other media that does not agree with their narrative … hmmm. how convenient.

  • Lenny,
    FYSA-
    The trial has already started.
    Let us see who gets the last laugh

    • Jeff,

      Twelve simple rules must be observed when commenting on my blog.

      12 Please use the same name you’ve used before when commenting — it doesn’t have to be your real name, but it helps others who are trying to follow the discussions.”
      https://edzardernst.com/rules/

    • Has it arse.

      A spokesperson for the Office of the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court confirmed to Full Fact the letter was genuine and, as a matter of process, the materials submitted would be analysed.

      The spokesperson added: “The first step of that process is to assess whether the communication concerns matters that are manifestly outside the jurisdiction of the Court. As a general matter, to date, the Office has dismissed Covid-related communications as manifestly outside the Court’s jurisdiction.

      The stamping and shouting of tinfoli-hatted social inadequates who dream of significane but who only make bigger fools of themselves.

    • Jeff,

      https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/feb/10/facebook-posts/viral-video-simulation-does-not-depict-real-grand-/

      The trial you are talking about is a mock trial where a bunch of anitvaxxer goons dressed up in suits and playing lawyer on camera. I am not going to post a link to that tripe, but if you look at the video you will notice that in the right bottom corner it says “model proceeding” and on the top right it says “the court of public opinion” under “grand jury”. It is far from a ICC trial that you are dreaming about Jeff. They duped a bunch of half-witted antivaxxers into believing that an ICC trial is on-going. Joke is on you, Jeff!

      • @R. Daneel
        If ‘Jeff’ were a six-year-old, I might find his gullibility endearing. But as he is probably slightly older, I can only feel vicarious embarrassment about this boundless display of human stupidity.

        • @Richard

          Boundless it is! I have reached the limits of my vocabulary on how to call someone stupid. I keep referring to thesaurus everytime I respond to our resident antivaxxer troglodytes.

    • In Germany, we call the shyster lawyer Reiner Fuellmich, the organisator auf the so-called trial, Rainer Fuellmichdietaschen (mit Geld), i.e. “fill me the pockets (with money)”. 😀

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