I have to admit that I grew tired of endless discussions around COVID with people who deny the proven facts. Yes, there is much uncertainty – as would be expected in a situation that in many ways was unprecedented. But there are also important issues that are quite clear:
  • COVID vaccinations are not 100% harmless but they generate much more good than harm.
  • They are certainly far less dangerous than the disease.
  • COVID infections are not ‘just a flu’ but have serious consequences.

The last point was well-documented in a recent Lancet paper. Here is its abstract in full

Mortality statistics are fundamental to public health decision making. Mortality varies by time and location, and its measurement is affected by well known biases that have been exacerbated during the COVID-19 pandemic. This paper aims to estimate excess mortality from the COVID-19 pandemic in 191 countries and territories, and 252 subnational units for selected countries, from Jan 1, 2020, to Dec 31, 2021.


All-cause mortality reports were collected for 74 countries and territories and 266 subnational locations (including 31 locations in low-income and middle-income countries) that had reported either weekly or monthly deaths from all causes during the pandemic in 2020 and 2021, and for up to 11 year previously. In addition, we obtained excess mortality data for 12 states in India. Excess mortality over time was calculated as observed mortality, after excluding data from periods affected by late registration and anomalies such as heat waves, minus expected mortality. Six models were used to estimate expected mortality; final estimates of expected mortality were based on an ensemble of these models. Ensemble weights were based on root mean squared errors derived from an out-of-sample predictive validity test. As mortality records are incomplete worldwide, we built a statistical model that predicted the excess mortality rate for locations and periods where all-cause mortality data were not available. We used least absolute shrinkage and selection operator (LASSO) regression as a variable selection mechanism and selected 15 covariates, including both covariates pertaining to the COVID-19 pandemic, such as seroprevalence, and to background population health metrics, such as the Healthcare Access and Quality Index, with direction of effects on excess mortality concordant with a meta-analysis by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. With the selected best model, we ran a prediction process using 100 draws for each covariate and 100 draws of estimated coefficients and residuals, estimated from the regressions run at the draw level using draw-level input data on both excess mortality and covariates. Mean values and 95% uncertainty intervals were then generated at national, regional, and global levels. Out-of-sample predictive validity testing was done on the basis of our final model specification.


Although reported COVID-19 deaths between Jan 1, 2020, and Dec 31, 2021, totalled 5·94 million worldwide, we estimate that 18·2 million (95% uncertainty interval 17·1–19·6) people died worldwide because of the COVID-19 pandemic (as measured by excess mortality) over that period. The global all-age rate of excess mortality due to the COVID-19 pandemic was 120·3 deaths (113·1–129·3) per 100 000 of the population, and excess mortality rate exceeded 300 deaths per 100 000 of the population in 21 countries. The number of excess deaths due to COVID-19 was largest in the regions of south Asia, north Africa and the Middle East, and eastern Europe. At the country level, the highest numbers of cumulative excess deaths due to COVID-19 were estimated in India (4·07 million [3·71–4·36]), the USA (1·13 million [1·08–1·18]), Russia (1·07 million [1·06–1·08]), Mexico (798 000 [741 000–867 000]), Brazil (792 000 [730 000–847 000]), Indonesia (736 000 [594 000–955 000]), and Pakistan (664 000 [498 000–847 000]). Among these countries, the excess mortality rate was highest in Russia (374·6 deaths [369·7–378·4] per 100 000) and Mexico (325·1 [301·6–353·3] per 100 000), and was similar in Brazil (186·9 [172·2–199·8] per 100 000) and the USA (179·3 [170·7–187·5] per 100 000).


The full impact of the pandemic has been much greater than what is indicated by reported deaths due to COVID-19 alone. Strengthening death registration systems around the world, long understood to be crucial to global public health strategy, is necessary for improved monitoring of this pandemic and future pandemics. In addition, further research is warranted to help distinguish the proportion of excess mortality that was directly caused by SARS-CoV-2 infection and the changes in causes of death as an indirect consequence of the pandemic.

I am posting this in the hope that the many proponents of so-called alternative medicine (SCAM) who deny proven facts about COVID might learn and stop falling victim to proctophasia.

94 Responses to Excess mortality due to the COVID-19 pandemic

  • The documents recently released by Pfizer under FOIA indicate that the all cause mortality was Higher in the vaccinated group than in the control group. That was discovered with even the poorly managed data (as revealed by whistleblowers) that Pfizer collected. And that was only in the few months before they went ahead and permitted the control group to get vaccinated. So at least your first two points are proven wrong.

    This study seems to attribute all excess mortality to Covid. That is absurd. Does that imply that increased suicides, lack of health care, etc. among people locked down, is a result of Covid, rather than murderous government policies of quarantining the healthy?

    • “The documents recently released by Pfizer under FOIA indicate that the all cause mortality was Higher in the vaccinated group than in the control group.”
      It might be helpful to link to the document

    • During 2021 when excess mortality from Covid should have tanked with so many people vaccinated, instead excess mortality skyrocketed. One insurance industry exec was recorded saying it increased by 40% in the 18-64 age range. That is a real “success” of the vaccinations and cannot be attributed to Covid.

      • you like quoting rumors
        you should try evidence some time

        • Compared to the vaxers, the financial market at least has a clear-eyed view of the problems at Pfizer and Moderna. Listen to Edward Doud’s “rumors”

          Part 1: Former Blackrock & Hedge Fund Guru Edward Dowd: Moderna and mRNA Companies Could Suffer the Fate of Enron; Plus is Big Insurance Prepping to Square Off With Big Pharma Over Payouts Linked to VAX?

          Both Pfizer and Moderna’s stocks are tanking. I wonder why?

        • Pfizer was apparently forced by court to disclose the data which fly in the face of studies attributing excess mortality to covid alone. 1223 fatal cases and the rest is fairly impressive as well, check it out:

          • @DanLucas

            1223 fatal cases …

            Your cognitive skills are frankly amazing – by their total absence.

            It does not say anywhere that these fatalities were CAUSED by vaccination. And the document even mentions this explicitly “An accumulation of adverse event reports (AERs) does not necessarily indicate that a particular AE was caused by the drug”. Also see the other caveats on pages 5 and 6.

            About the actual numbers: the total number of vaccines shipped in those 3 months is redacted, but estimates peg it at approximately 150 million. When you look at a group of 150 million people worldwide, you’d expect approximately 320,000 deaths per 3 months over all age groups. And because the first to be vaccinated were in fact the oldest and weakest people, you can be certain that the death rate is even far higher than that.

            So OF COURSE hundreds of thousands of people died relatively shortly after receiving their vaccination – without that vaccination being the cause in any way. And of course a lot of people then reported deaths to VAERS or similar databases.

            It would be far more suspicious if no deaths at all were reported. Because that would mean that the vaccine would protect against all causes of death (which of course is ludicrous), or it would mean that some tampering with the database was going on …

            So no, those 1223 reported deaths worldwide during that 3-month period cannot be attributed to the vaccine, and were most likely natural deaths that just happened shortly after vaccination.

          • @DanLucas

            The document is very unremarkable, it is not a smoking gun that you so badly want it to be. It is more like a toy pistol that squirts water, womp womp! Is this what you and your anti-vaxxer ilk get off to?

          • I repeat Edzard Ernst: Enough BS!

      • @Stan

        One insurance industry exec was recorded saying it [mortality] increased by 40% in the 18-64 age range.

        I checked our Dutch mortality figures, and these are the figures for all-cause mortality between 1995 and 2021 for the age group 0-65:

        1995: 26,183
        1996: 26,388
        1997: 25,715
        1998: 26,031
        1999: 26,557
        2000: 26,711
        2001: 26,667
        2002: 26,900
        2003: 26,863
        2004: 26,054
        2005: 25,306
        2006: 24,978
        2007: 24,447
        2008: 24,802
        2009: 24,474
        2010: 24,339
        2011: 23,611
        2012: 23,398
        2013: 22,761
        2014: 22,184
        2015: 22,137
        2016: 22,287
        2017: 21,694
        2018: 21,568
        2019: 20,935
        2020: 21,683
        2021: 22,612

        I don’t see anything looking like a 40% increase in mortality. Apparently, your information is wrong. Please next time provide proper sources or else refrain from spouting this sort of garbage.

    • There was no statistically significant difference in deaths in the Pfizer RCT, and none of the deaths were attributed to the vaccine. The study wasn’t designed to pick up changes in mortality, it used infection and serious illness as endpoints, as using deaths would have required a much larger and/or longer study. Nothing in the FOI documents has been in the slightest bit surprising. The only surprising thing is the number of people who have managed to completely misunderstand them, and double down on their misunderstanding when it is pointed out. Here’s the study:

  • Important statement:

    “These covariates explained 69·1% of the variation in the input data to this regression.”

  • What staggers me is that anti vaxers, contrarian doctors, denialists and minimisers of COVID never appear to notice the human suffering that the virus has wrought. They dont see it and from this I assume (perhaps wrongly) dont want to do anything about it (the definition of compassion). Their arguments appear to be largely political / self serving / money making / big pharma bashing or worse. Any mention of suffering is to support these ideas and little to do with actually wanting to help and the actual science. I find their whole attitude both wanting and disgusting as described repeatedly at science based medicine and your excellent blog Edzard. I’m sure there will be lots of intense scientific debates about COVID to be had and as you say a lot of uncertainty. What we dont need are these debates being debased and confused with BS.

  • We all know that the ‘gene therapy’ injections are ‘safe and effective’, because we have been told that is the case so often, so it is rather disconcerting when the truth surfaces (something the govt., MSM, the captured ‘Medical Profession’ (cum morticians) and Big Tech fight tooth and nail).

    In January 2022, attorneys Thomas Renz and Leigh Dundas retrieved the DMED data from military whistleblowers, Drs. Samuel Sigoloff, Peter Chambers and Theresa Long. The data was provided to Senator Ron Johnson at a historic round table meeting with doctors and lawyers.
    ‘…According to the data, the five-year average for medical issues in the military was 1.7 million codes. After the COVID-19 vaccine protocol was mandated on the military, the number of medical issues spiked to 22 million in the first 10 months of 2021 – a 1,000 percent increase! Many of the issues are directly related to the covid-19 vaccines, including Bell’s palsy, myocardial infarction, pulmonary embolisms and neurological disorders. One of the military doctors testified: “It is my professional opinion that the major increases incidences of the above discussed instances of miscarriages, cancers, and disease were due to COVID-19 ‘vaccinations.”…’.
    Before ya’ll attack the news source, remeber the MSM won’t touch this with a barge pole, so one has to rely on what sources WILL publish it. And it also has a short video clip of part of a hearing before Senator Johnson.

    • @paulbarbara
      Please use your brain for once: If ONLY ONE adverse event database shows an apparent huge increase in all kinds of very serious medical conditions, but many hundreds of other similar databases around the world show absolutely nothing of the kind, then this can have two explanations:
      1) That one database is wrong
      2) All those hundreds of other databases are wrong
      Now, before you read on, which do you think applies here?

      One of the military doctors testified: “It is my professional opinion that the major increases incidences of the above discussed instances of miscarriages, cancers, and disease were due to COVID-19 ‘vaccinations.”

      Interesting. When I tried to confirm this quote from ‘one of the military doctors’, I could not locate it anywhere – which means that it was most likely made up. I did, however, stumble upon the following:

      Editor’s Note: After publication of this opinion piece, the Department of Defense reported the Defense Medical Epidemiology Database underreported the number of medical conditions between 2016 and 2020. The opinion piece below was written before information for years 2016 through 2020 was amended in the database. In the interest of accuracy, we have removed the rest of the post.

      Now, and please pay attention, THAT is what journalistic integrity looks like.

      Case closed.

    • remeber the MSM won’t touch this with a barge pole

      Because it’s utter bullshit, Paul. As anyone with a grasp of epidemiology, science and statistics can spot. The MSM concerns itself with stuff like, you know, “facts”, not the deluded fantasies of irrelevant tinfoil-hatted idiots like yourself.

      Keep shouting to your fellow nutters in your echo-chamber. They might listen. We’ll just laugh at you.

      • @ Lenny: ‘..The MSM concerns itself with stuff like, you know, “facts”..’. Try rereading what you wrote, and then look at yourself in a mirror. Better still, commit it to memory and repeat it while looking at yourself in the mirror.
        Just like the ‘Regulatory Agencies’ and most politicians, the MSM has been ‘captured’ long ago.

        • Paul

          Because empirical fact contradicts your delusions doesn’t mean it is false.

          Your position is based on faith, not evidence. It is a religion. Your god is Wakefield, your prophets the likes of Kennedy and Bigtree.

          We carefully refute every witless assertion you make, but you refuse to learn. MScience changes with the evidence. Religions don’t.

    • Natural News (formerly NewsTarget, which is now a separate sister site) is a far-right, anti-vaccination conspiracy theory and fake news website known for promoting alternative medicine, pseudoscience, and far-right extremism.

      Johnson used his position as chair of the Senate Homeland Security Committee to invite witnesses to hearings to promote fringe theories about COVID-19.

      Johnson peddled misinformation about COVID-19 vaccines during the pandemic.

      You have lost, pal.

  • Yet more on the ‘safe and effective’ jabs: ‘Children in China develop LEUKEMIA after getting injected with COVID shots’:
    To show how all cases are ‘looked into’, Chinese police visited all people who had put up jab injury info and told them to withdraw from the chat group and that they were ‘making up’ their stories.

    • @paulbarbara
      I can find exactly ONE story that is repeated in the same wording over and over again, saying that
      “Li Jun’s 4-year-old daughter Li Jun had a fever and cough, which quickly disappeared after intravenous therapy in the hospital. But after the second injection, the father could see that something was wrong….”

      FYI, childhood leukaemia is diagnosed in 1 in every 20,000 children annually. If you vaccinate millions of children, then yes, you will inevitably have some children who are diagnosed with leukaemia shortly after vaccination.

      From what I can find, adverse event databases show no increase in childhood leukaemia at all. This tells me that there is probably nothing wrong here, and that it’s just antivaccine idiots doing their usual fear mongering.

      Case closed.

    • Excellent source of information you have there, Paul!

      Natural News (formerly NewsTarget, which is now a separate sister site) is a far-right, anti-vaccination conspiracy theory and fake news website known for promoting alternative medicine, pseudoscience, and far-right extremism.”

      You may be amazed to also discover that: ‘Children get injected with COVID shots after developing leukaemia’. I can’t reveal my source due to fear of being visited by the vaccine mafia, again.

      • @ Pete Attkins: And ditto to you! An ‘excellent’ source you use, Wikepedia. You might as well have used Reuters or some other ‘Fact Checkers’. Why not tackle the information, rather than the messenger? Three Military whistlebowers would hardly lie on oath, they know the PTB would come down on them like a ton of bricks.
        As for Natural News and News Target peddling ‘far-right extremism’, that honour goes to the US, NATO and the MSM who support the Ukrainian Fascists (just as they did the Fascist Juntas in Latin America).
        Insofar as they expose conspiracies, they do an excellent job, as well as doing an excellent job trying to wake up the brainwashed Sheeple to the very real dangers of the jabs, 5G, GMO’s etc., and the Globalist’s plans for massive human culling.

        • I must correct myself: You are a crank, conspiracy theorist and Putin troll.

        • Thanks for the reminder about 5G, Paul, I’ve lost count of the number times I’ve felt unwell since 4G was installed in my locale!

          And don’t get me started on smart meters. Did you know that gas smart meters irradiate the gas as it passes through the meter; this irradiated gas then irradiates the food we cook and the surrounding air we breathe. If I used only Wikipedia as a source, I wouldn’t be aware of this.

        • @Paul Barbara

          Did you know that spike protein acts as a 5G antenna? It works like this – after our cells translate the mRNA in the vaccine into spike proteins, they translocate to cell membrane and stick out of the cell and start acting as 5G antenna. In time the entire body acts as one big walking talking 5G antenna. The big-telecom and big-pharma got together and built this tech and used this pandemic as a ruse to make us all into 5G antennas. With billions of 5G enabled human towers walking around unwittingly boosting 5G signal, the big-telecom ends up saving a lot of money because it doesn’t have to install 5G towers everywhere. How else would you explain stronger 5G signals in countries where mRNA vaccine is available?

          I bet you are on the edge of your seat to find out about the source where I got the above information from. My source is not Natural News or some other source that produces right-wing drivel, my rear end can do a better job at making shit up (no pun intended).

    • You know, that BioNTech, AstraZeneca, J&J, Moderna, Novavax are NOT approved in China and people there are getting only Chinese vaccines, i.e. inactivated virus COVID-19 vaccines like Sinovac and Sinopharm?

      You are lighting smoke candles.

      • @ RPGNo1: Jabs are jabs; none of the #Covid’ jabs are safe. Sinovac and Sinopharm are not only used in China, but in some other countries. As for them being ‘inactivated virus COVID-19 vaccines’, that’s a laugh and a half – how do you inactivate something that has never been isolated?

        • “none of the #Covid’ jabs are safe”
          nothing in life is totally safe!
          but COVID jabs generate much more good than harm.

        • how do you inactivate something that has never been isolated?

          Following reports of patients with unexplained pneumonia at the end of December 2019 in Wuhan, China, the causative agent was identified as coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2), and the 2019 novel coronavirus disease was named COVID-19 by the World Health Organization. Putative patients with COVID-19 have been identified in South Korea, and attempts have been made to isolate the pathogen from these patients.

          Upper and lower respiratory tract secretion samples from putative patients with COVID-19 were inoculated onto cells to isolate the virus. Full genome sequencing and electron microscopy were used to identify the virus.

          BOOM! That was your brain which just exploded.

  • Heather Mcdonald, is not so sure since this happened:

  • @ RPGNo1 on Thursday 17 March 2022 at 09:51:
    ‘…Putative patients with COVID-19 have been identified in South Korea, and attempts have been made to isolate the pathogen from these patients…’
    I know it may be difficult for you to comprehend the difference between ‘attempting’ to isolate a virus, and actually doing so. Had they done it, the CDC and every other regulatory medical agency around the world would not be saying they did not have access to the isolated virus. Seems to me most of the commenters on here are paid-up ‘Friends of Big Pharm’, and totally brainwashed.

    77K by December 2020
    178K by March 2021 (after vaccines introduced)

    Therefore over 100k died *after* vaccination compared to 77k in a virgin-population before vaccination. What do your own eyes tell you? That vaccines are “safe and effective”?

    • “What do your own eyes tell you? ”

      • It does not matter who Old Bob is, only the data matters – if Old Bob was a piece of AI or some students having a laugh or Adolf Hitler, it would not affect the data, one way or the other – I thought your New Year’s resolution was to avoid personal attacks?

    • Old Bob,

      Your eyes and mind are playing tricks on you. After vaccines are introduced in US traffic fatalities went thru the roof: What does that tell you? Vaccines are causing traffic accidents; therefore, vaccines are “unsafe and ineffective”.

    • @Old Bob

      What do your own eyes tell you?

      My eyes tell me that mid-January 2021 saw the highest peak in Covid deaths in the UK to date, with up to 1500 deaths per day. At that point in time, maybe 5% of the UK population had received their first vaccine.
      By March 2021, still only a minority of 30% had received their first vaccine. Vaccination continued apace throughout the following months, yet the number of new deaths had fallen to zero during that time, only to slightly rise again in the fall.
      In other words: there is no positive correlation at all between vaccination rates and excess deaths.
      Yet here you are, trying to tell us that the vaccines literally caused ALL deaths in the second Covid wave, but no deaths at all later on.

      You truly are an idiot. And as Edzard already said: a statement of fact cannot be a personal attack.

      (And yes, Covid-19 vaccines are extremely safe and reasonably effective.)

    • The Delta variant which emerged in late 2020 was way more dangerous than the Alpha.

      How many of the deaths were in unvaccinated people? A lot.

      “ If you compare the number of deaths in vaccinated and unvaccinated people per 100,000, the rate of death is much higher in unvaccinated people. A recent report for the Office for National Statistics (ONS) found that, between 2 January and 24 September 2021, the age-adjusted risk of deaths involving Covid-19 was 32 times greater in unvaccinated people than in fully vaccinated people.”

      My eyes tell me that you’re a halfwitted antivax loon, OB.

  • Lenny on Thursday 26 May 2022 at 19:46 said:

    “…A recent report for the Office for National Statistics (ONS) found that…”

    The ONS data is flawed, see here:

    E.g. the peaks at (at 16:30, 17:00, 17:20, 18:00 and 18:15)
    Now the ONS data (at 19:40)
    Then at 21:50, he starts to show how the errors occurred, with the finale at 23:10 and conclusion at 25:23

    • @Old Bob
      It is not just the ONS that found that Covid vaccines are safe and effective. ALL public health organizations around the world came to this conclusion. And they ALL found EXACTLY THE SAME: Covid-19 vaccination reduces the risk of death by ~95%, and there is no evidence whatsoever that these vaccines contribute to the death toll in any manner.

      So either ALL those national health agencies are wrong and/or lying (and for some reason telling the exact same lie with the exact same numbers), or you are wrong.

      Now, what do you think is more likely?

      (I haven’t wasted my time looking at that YouTube video, as it is with 99% certainty a piece of antivaxx propaganda from some idiots who most probably can’t add 1 and 1 together, let alone interpret health statistics. If you want to come up with evidence, please present a scientific article, preferably peer-reviewed.)

      • Richard Rasker on Friday 27 May 2022 at 11:28 said:
        “…ALL public health organizations around the world came to this conclusion. And they ALL found EXACTLY THE SAME…”

        You forget to mention the media likewise:

        • @Old Bob
          You may well be on to something here.

          Some months ago, the mainstream media here reported about a horrible road accident, killing 4 people and injuring 3 more in the early morning hours.

          And you know what? ALL major media reported the EXACT same things! ALL mentioned that:
          – there were 4 deaths,
          – there were 3 people injured,
          – the state of the vehicles suggested that at least one was exceeding the speed limit,
          – police were still investigating the cause of the accident, including whether drivers were under the influence of alcohol and drugs.

          THIS CAN’T BE A COINCIDENCE! This so-called ‘independent’ news reporting must have been scripted, and this accident probably didn’t happen as portrayed AT ALL. This is almost certainly scaremongering and propaganda to keep young people from enjoying themselves and going out at night.
          Why else didn’t we hear about any other equally valid theories? Maybe people didn’t die, or there was no accident, or maybe it was an elaborate prank with some scrapyard cars. Why aren’t we told about these things?

          And the more I thought about it and researched other news items, the more I noticed that ALMOST EVERY NEWS STORY ON ALMOST ANYTHING NEWSWORTHY contains virtually the same ‘facts’, regardless of the actual media reporting it.

          So yeah, the fact that almost all doctors, scientists and media around the world are feeding us almost identical ‘facts’ about the Covid-19 pandemic is a dead giveaway that they are all lying, and are being controlled by dark powers who want to take away our freedoms, and destroy the purity of our precious bodily fluids by forcing toxic ‘vaccines’ upon us.

          • @Old Bob
            You are an idiot. Scientists have been researching coronaviruses for several decades now, because they know that these strains were a particularly likely candidate for a nasty pandemic, as also evidenced by ‘early warnings’ such as MERS and SARS outbreaks that luckily fizzled out again. All coronaviruses have these spike proteins, so it is not strange at all that companies researching these viruses and matching vaccines have patented things connected to these viruses.

          • Bob

            Prior to posting, you really should read some of the tripe which you imagine supports your deulsions.

            From the Mail piece:

            Professor Lawrence Young, a virologist at Warwick University, admitted the latest finding was interesting but claimed it was not significant enough to suggest lab manipulation.

            He told MailOnline: ‘We’re talking about a very, very, very small piece made up of 19 nucleotides.

            ‘So it doesn’t mean very much to be frank, if you do these types of searches you can always find matches.

            ‘Sometimes these things happen fortuitously, sometimes it’s the result of convergent evolution (when organisms evolve independently to have similar traits to adapt to their environment).

            ‘It’s a quirky observation but I wouldn’t call it a smoking gun because it’s too small.

            He added: ‘It doesn’t get us any further with the debate about whether Covid was engineered.’

            Dr Simon Clarke, a microbiologist at Reading University, questioned whether the find was as rare as the study claims.

            He told MailOnline: ‘There can only be a certain number of [genetic combinations within] furin cleavage sites.

            ‘They function like a lock and key in the cell, and the two only fit together in a limited number of combinations.

            ‘So it’s an interesting coincidence but this is surely entirely coincidental.’

          • And the NYP (where the lab leak is agreed secretly and then covered up publicly):

          • wrestle with a pig: (idiomatic) To engage in a struggle with an opponent that benefits from the struggle even without winning it.


            ● 1946, Richard Percival Calhoon. “Moving ahead on your job”, McGraw-Hill.
            “And when you begin refuting one another’s reasons, fussing back and forth, you generally do what a nationally known industrial relations authority warns you against: you wallow in the mud with the pig. He says, ‘Never wallow in the mud with a pig, because the pig likes it.’ That is exactly what he wants, because you are on his home ground. He can think of arguments as well as you can, so where do you come out?”

            ● 1950, Time, volume 56.
            “‘I learned long ago never to wrestle with a pig,’ Ching likes to say, ‘You get dirty and besides the pig likes it.'”

            ● 1957, Barney Glazer’s Column, The Loris Sentinel, Feb 13, p4.
            “Whenever a boisterous and argumentative person cries to draw you into a public discussion or a wrangle, just remember this bit of advice. “Don’t wrestle with a pig. You’ll get dirty, which is exactly what the pig likes.”

            ● 2002, Dinesh D’Souza, Letters to a Young Conservative, p 23
            “While I was at the Dartmouth Review, we used to tell the deans that taking on our campus paper was like wrestling with a pig. Not only did it get everyone dirty, but the pig liked it!”


          • Old Bob is playing pigeon chess. He knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its denier flock to claim victory.

    • @Old Bob

      My goodness, what a primitive attempt this is!

      In March 2021, Fenton was one of several academics who put their name to a document seeking to persuade the British government not to pass COVID-19 legislation, suggesting that a large increase in deaths had been caused by the COVID-19 vaccination programme. Jeremy Brown of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation said the document was “ridiculous” since the vaccines in question had an established safety profile, and virologist Jonathan Ball said it showed a “blatant disregard for the facts” and was “irresponsible in the extreme”.[

      You are busted, pal.

    • PS: Why do vaccination opponents and corona deniers actually almost always believe that all persons are so stupid that they can fall for your lies and misinformation? Your “data” and the false conclusions from it are so obvious that they are easily recognized even by non-academics.

      • RPGNo1 on Friday 27 May 2022 at 12:26 said:
        “…misinformation… [is] easily recognized even by non-academics.”


        • @Old Bob

          Do not abbreviate my statement. I said: “… that all persons are so stupid that they can fall for your lies and misinformation? Your “data” and the false conclusions from it are so obvious that they are easily recognized even by non-academics.”
          BTW, a non-representative survey on Twitter has no significance whatsoever.

          • RPGNo1 on Sunday 29 May 2022 at 11:28 said:

            “Do not abbreviate my statement. I said: “… that all persons are so stupid that they can fall for your lies and misinformation? Your “data” and the false conclusions from it are so obvious that they are easily recognized even by non-academics.”

            BTW, a non-representative survey on Twitter has no significance whatsoever.”

            1 “Do not abbreviate my statement.” – why not? It’s mostly redundant:
            2 “…that all personson are so stupid…” – assumption
            3 “…that they can fall for your lies and misinformation…” – assumption
            4 “…Your “data”…” – No, it’s data from third party data sources,
            5 “…and the false conclusions from it are so obvious…” – if so why the need to say it?
            6 “ …that they are easily recognised even by non-academics…” – ditto.
            7 “…BTW, a non-representative survey on Twitter has no significance whatsoever.” – ditto.

          • As I said above. You are playing pigeon chess. Just be careful that a peregrine falcon does not catch you one day.

    • Fenton is another insignificant and long-derided antivax loon. His cherrypicking and misrepresentation can happily be ignored. Proof by YouTube is no proof.

      Got anything by anyone reputable that you can show us, Bob?

      We’ll wait.

      • Yes, Israel:
        3k by December 2020
        7K on top of that, by March 2022 (after vaccines introduced) 10k total

        • Old Bob,

          I responded to your earlier post and provided evidence regarding how vaccines are causing traffic fatalities:, but you had no response, because you don’t want to see the truth for what it is. I bet you cannot find a YT video explaining the increase in traffic fatalities post vaccination. You know why? I made such a video and big pharma had it taken down, because it is bad for their business.

          You go on yapping your anti-vax mouth about some cherry-picked data presented on YT that happens to confirm your biases. However, anti-vax sheeple like you fail to see the big picture. That is all deaths after vaccine rollout, regardless of cause (or species they happen in) can and should be attributed to vaccines. For example, if more people died after slipping in their bathtub in 2021, then those deaths must have been caused by vaccines. I’d go even a step further and blame covid vaccines for deaths of other species. There is spike in bird fatalities in 2021: the same year covid vaccines are rolled out. Doesn’t that sound suspicious to you? Why would birds fall out of the sky suddenly after vaccine roll out?

          Moral of the story for you and other anti-vax sheeple like you is – you all are dumber than a rock. You cannot think outside the box, let alone think for yourself. You go on parroting claims of other anti-vaxxers that happen to be slightly less dumb than you.

          Do your “research” Old Bob! But first you need to grow a brain that can comprehend the meaning of “research”.

          • Honest Ape on Friday 27 May 2022 at 15:18 said:

            “I responded to your earlier post and provided evidence regarding how vaccines are causing traffic fatalities:, but you had no response…”

            Sorry about that, I missed it, but now you point it out, I see it 🙂

            But if that report is true, a 10% increase is massive, it should be all over the news…

          • Old Bob says:

            But if that report is true, a 10% increase is massive, it should be all over the news…

            Old Bob, of course why would anyone believe in a report unless it is has been scripted and reported all over the news media similar to what you were referring to in your earlier post:

            Your repeated use of YT videos and right-wing news reports tells me that you have no clue about things that don’t get reported outside your favorite news channel. You are probably sitting in front of your tele and/or your computer and watching news feeds, YT videos that you think are informing you and repeating that nonsense here. Time and again you have demonstrated that you do not understand the facts unless they are “reported” by someone else. What you need to do is, grow a pair and step outside of your house and search for the truth. Remember, truth is out there. But so are lies.

        • @Mr. Bob
          In case you got lost: this is Edzard’s blog. The toilets are three doors down the hall on your left, so you can stop crapping all over the place here.

        • Oh dear.

          “ The numbers show that while only approximately 12 percent of Israelis over 60 are either unvaccinated or partially vaccinated, together they account for 43 percent of COVID deaths in their age group in the previous month.”

          You really do need to check that there’s water in the pool before you jump in, Bob. All you’ve shown us is your own inability to understand statistics.

    • @Old Bob
      “NewsPunch is a Los Angeles-based fake news website.”
      And even if this particular item may be true, it has nothing to do with this thread’s topic.

      @Edzard: maybe it is time to escort Mr. Bob to the toilets? His ‘contributions’ are increasingly akin to a 3-year-old proudly showing the result of his potty training to all the family.

      • Richard Rasker on Monday 30 May 2022 at 12:15 said:

        “…[wikipedia says that] NewsPunch is a Los Angeles-based fake news website.”
        But who is to guard the guards? Wikipedia? Or the Spanish Inquisition Or the Thirty Tyrants…

        Instead, how about the scientific method? E.g. instead of name-calling and cancelling and censorship, how about reason and logic instead, with all parties included, and all points discussed and all evidence compared?

        But instead Edzard said:
        “@Edzard: maybe it is time to escort Mr. Bob to the toilets? His ‘contributions’ are increasingly akin to a 3-year-old proudly showing the result of his potty training to all the family.”

        • right!
          time’s up, Old Bob
          either you start making some sense and stop promoting fake news and utter nonsense, or this was the last of your comments for the time being.

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