MD, PhD, FMedSci, FRSB, FRCP, FRCPEd.

There seem to be plenty of myths and misunderstandings about homeopathy in India.

Homeopathy was first introduced to India by a German doctor from Siebenbuergen, Martin Honigberger (1795 – 1869). He first came to India in 1829 as a conventionally trained physician and treated amongst other personalities the Maharaja Ranjit Singh of Punjab. In 1834, he returned to Europe, met Hahnemann, and became a convert of homeopathy. Subsequently he returned to India, in 1839, and brought homeopathy to this country. Initially, homeopathy was practised mainly by lay practitioners. Mahendra Lal Sircar is said to have been the first Indian who became a homeopathic physician, and he is often called the ‘Hering of India’. The ‘Calcutta Homeopathic Medical College’ was established in 1881 and assumed a crucial role in popularising homeopathy.

Today, we are often being told that homeopathy is incredibly popular in India. For instance, the HINDUSTAN TIMES recently published the following article:

The government on Tuesday said homeopathy is ‘clinically effective’ and there has been a 50 % rise in the number of patients seeking homeopathic treatment in the country in the past five years.

“In India, at 23 Institutes/ Units under the Central Council for Research in Homeopathy (CCRH), there is 50 % more footfall of patients seeking homeopathic treatment during the last five years,” said AYUSH Minister of State (Independent Charge) Shripad Yesso Naik.

“Homeopathy is not a pseudoscience. The conclusion of most comprehensive systematic reviews of studies based on classical homeopathy has concluded that it has a positive and specific effect greater than placebo alone,” he said in a written reply in the upper house.

“Homeopathy is being promoted as it is not only safe and effective but also due to its high acceptance through high quality surveys of use of homeopathy,” said Naik, adding that there is evidence that homeopathy is beneficial.

“There is evidence based data (not anecdotal) with CCRH that warrants the promotion or acceptance of homeopathy in India,” said the Minister.

END OF QUOTE

In my view, this foremost begs one question: How does Shripad Yesso Naik get away with evidently false statements?

The minister describes himself as a ‘business person’ (not sure what this means, but it clearly does not describe a medical expert). Wikipedia has this interesting information on him: On March 25, 2016, Shripad Naik publicly stated he had access to research which proved that diseases such as cancer could be cured by yoga. He further stated that his Ministry was a year away from granting an endorsement to such techniques and research. The statement was challenged by medical researchers and doctors, who advocated caution in claiming a cure to cancer on the basis of unproven and unpublished research.

The AUYSH-ministry (AYUSH stands for ayurveda, yoga, siddha and homeopathy) seems to have the purpose of promoting homeopathy not on the basis of evidence but despite the evidence. For that purpose, it has set up a committee at the Central Council for Research in Homeopathy (CCRH) to “deal with issues related to false propaganda against homeopathy”. They claim to have written to Nobel laureate Venkatraman Ramakrishnan, who correctly stated that homeopathy and astrology were “bogus”… “No one in chemistry believes in homeopathy. It works because of placebo effect”. The director general of the CCRH countered that “The propaganda is coming from the West and it is picked up by newspapers here. They present homeopathy in a disproportionate and negative light, and it creates confusion… ” The CCRH has also been writing letters, rejoinders and counter-editorials to others to combat “false propaganda.”

I do not need to repeat here the evidence on homeopathy (we have dealt with it regularly on this blog); suffice to state that it fails to show that highly diluted homeopathic remedies differ from placebos. This, in turn, means that the accusation of ‘false propaganda’ must be directed not at the sceptics but at the AYUSH-ministry.

And what about the claim that homeopathy is currently so hugely popular in India? It seems that it is bogus too. A recent survey conducted by ‘Indian National Sample Survey Office’ revealed that 90% of the Indian population rely on conventional medicine. Merely 6% trust what the investigators chose to call ‘Indian systems of medicine’, e. g. ayurveda, yoga, siddha and homeopathy, often abbreviated as AYUSH.

The message that seems to emerge from all this is that, in India, homeopathy is being promoted on the basis of exaggerations and untruths – much like in many other countries, I hasten to add.

54 Responses to Exaggerations and untruths in the promotion of homeopathy

  • It is impossible to know how many people in nations other than India are given false reassurance that ‘homeopathy works’ by the lies promulgated by homeopathic promoters such as Shripad Yesso Naik.
    Incidentally, in India, homeopathy’s usefulness is not restricted to ‘curing cancer’, it can also be used (by paying customers of course) to cure infertility: http://images.jdmagicbox.com/comp/thrissur/s6/9999px487.x487.160621210304.p7s6/catalogue/carewell-homoeopathic-fertility-clinic-mannuthy-thrissur-m9dmwh3.jpg

  • Initially, homeopathy was practised mainly by lay practitioners because, under British rule, Indian citizens were not allowed to study medicine.

    Where did this idea come from? I realize that Wiki is not the most dependable source but it reports that the first “totally European medical school” in India for Indians, the “Medical College” began accepting students on 20 February 1835.

    The proposed new college, known as the Medical College, which was established by an order of 28 January 1835 ushered in a new era in the history of medical education in India. Its stated purpose was to train native youths aged between 14 and 20 irrespective of caste and creed in the principles and practices of medical science in accordance with the mode adopted in Europe.

    Before that, John Company seems to have provided medical education involving “parallel instructions in western and indigenous medical systems”.

  • As a gov’t minister, Shripad Yesso Naik is a member of the Bharatiya Janata Party, which is an ultra-nationalistic Hindu party. They, like any set of fanatics are willing to lie to achieve their ends and pushing traditional Indian medicine is, one assumes, seen as patriotic nationalism. Of course, there is even the chance that Shripad Naik is crazy enough the believe what he says.

    That said, there are as many nutty health crazes in India as in the USA. They just, sometimes, come in different flavours.

    There seems to be a growing tendency to introduce astrology resources to hospital patient care, both internally and as an out-patient service. I have mislaid my favourite reference to this but here is another.

    https://www.outlookindia.com/website/story/madhya-pradesh-government-to-set-up-astrology-opd-in-hospitals-to-diagnose-patie/299586

  • Oh thinking of patriotic nationalism or just plain nuttiness, Orac over at Respectful Insolence has a post on the incorporation of Traditional Chinese Medicine diagnoses into the draft ICD-11.

  • Apparently, David Tredinnick is visiting Naik and the Ministry of AYUSH in September.

  • This is probably not news to the regular readers but I like it as a description that puts things into perspective and was originally posted in response to a comment by Alan Schumakler after he made an impressive sounding claim of there being “224,279 board certified homeopathic physicians who practice in India”.

    Homeopathy in India is a fringe therapy. It doesn’t surprise me at all that supporters of homeopathy misrepresent this though.

    India has a huge population. You take any tiny fringe group and you can come up with a very large sounding number. Right up until you look at that number as a percentage.

    For context: http://www.thehinducentre.c

    Here, the National Sample Survey Office (NSSO), Ministry of Statistics and Programme Implementation reports on medical modality choices. The “other” category makes up about 5-7% usage. In “Other” we have AYUSH. So that’s only part of that 5-7%. The “H” in AYUSH is Homeopathy so that makes up a part of a part of the 5-7%.

    Looking at it from this angle you get a much more realistic representation of Homeopathy usage in India.

    • And research shows homeopathic preparations have no clinical effects on 100% of those who use them (apart from assisting warping patients’ mind-sets, leading patients astray, wasting scarce health care and financial resources, and possibly encouraging the delay of conventional treatment).

      • Dr Rawlins, just a few days ago you were waxing lyrical about homeopaths obtaining informed consent from their patients. When you consider that a lot of homeopathy patients are interested laypersons and paying out of their own money for this service, they are more than happy to sign an informed consent document declaring that they understand that the medical profession views homeopathy as unscientific medicine and only a placebo.

        Your avid anti-homeopathy tirade has not abated though, has it?

        How is homeopathy ‘wasting scarce health care and financial resources?

        As a medical practitioner, do you subscribe to the view that patients can make their own informed decisions regarding their own health care?

        Your informed consent campaign made sense. Dr Rawlins, why don’t you quit while you are still ahead?

        Or is this just about promoting sales of junk books?

        • > As a medical practitioner, do you subscribe to the view that patients can make their own informed decisions regarding their own health care?

          The keyword being “informed”. Ask any generally educated and literate patient in India who goes to a Homeopath what 200C means. If they can answer, maybe we can get to a discussion on “informed decisions”. As an Indian, I personally don’t know a single Indian homeopathy user who does. I meet a few hyper-propagandized ones on Internet like Iqbal (he is not typical of my countrymen, nor am I). Most patients in India have no clue what Homeopathy is. They just go there because their neighbor assured them it worked for his kid’s fever and tummy-ache.

          I hold that it is the responsibility of governments to first educate the public about what science is, what scientific medicine is, how evidence is gathered, what the pitfalls are etc. Without that, informed consent cannot happen.

          India is probably the only country where its constitution states that it is the duty of citizens to have scientific temper. It was drafted by a Columbia PhD graduate. The pre-requisites are there. But as a developing country, the challenges are in implementation. For the standards of its per-capita, the educational system does OK when compared to its neighbors in the region etc. But obviously that isn’t enough.

          It was OK for our government to have educational campaigns about witchcraft decades ago. It is similarly OK for them to teach about 200C and the farce of Homeopathic provings. However, our current government leaders are not intellectuals and genuinely have little understanding of the issues. The intellectual party, with a Harvard-educated PhD Prime Minister, was however mired in corruption and lost the moral authority and popular support. The current alternative seems better on that front, but is completely uninformed when it comes to science. They are not anti-science per se, just clueless about it.

          • Ravi

            “The keyword being “informed”. Ask any generally educated and literate patient in India who goes to a Homeopath what 200C means. If they can answer, maybe we can get to a discussion on “informed decisions”.

            You seem to be an Indian. So among other things as writing in English, you would be aware of IIT Mumbai. The chemical engineering department published a paper on 200C.
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20970092

            Forget about general lay public. How many doctors world wide (Forget India) are aware that Paracetamol is useless and dangerous for children and do they give a hoot before prescribing it for fever?

            Read what some doctors, who spent time on the subject write:
            https://www.nps.org.au/australian-prescriber/articles/paracetamol-use-in-children
            “There is no evidence that antipyretics prevent febrile convulsions; this is probably because the convulsion is caused by the rapid rise in temperature that usually occurs at the beginning of an illness. There are no controlled trials comparing an antipyretic to placebo for febrile convulsions, but one study comparing phenobarbitone plus antipyretic to placebo plus antipyretic found a high risk of febrile convulsions in the placebo plus antipyretic group, suggesting that antipyretic therapy did not protect against convulsions. In a recent controlled trial in children who had had a febrile convulsion, children given paracetamol 15-20 mg/kg every 4 hours were just as likely to have another convulsion as children given paracetamol only when their rectal temperature exceeded 37.9oC.”

            Paracetamol, the most common household medicine is poisoning 150 Australians a week
            “It’s the most common painkiller in every medicine cupboard but paracetamol is poisoning 8,000 Aussies a year. More than 150 patients a week are hospitalized as a result of paracetamol poisoning and experts say the problem is on the rise.”

            “https://www.bmj.com/rapid-response/2011/11/01/could-paracetamol-aggravate-liver-injury-dengue”
            “Paracetamol is sold as an over the counter medication in almost all tropical countries where dengue occurs and patients have ready and easy access to it. A high proportion of hospitalized dengue patients start taking paracetamol prior to admission. Some even ingest more than 4 grams of paracetamol a day to obtain adequate analgesia. A recent report from Sri Lanka describes paracetamol overuse with therapeutic intent in febrile children (having acute viral like illnesses) as a risk factor for
            developing fulminant hepatic failure. Therapeutic doses of paracetamol may cause liver injury in some patients. Watkins et al, found that 31 –44% of persons taking therapeutic doses of paracetamol (4g/day), had alanine transaminase (ALT) levels more than 3 times the upper limit of normal. Paracetamol metabolism is altered during acute viral hepatitis. It has been suggested that the 24 hour intake of paracetamol in patients with acute liver disease should be restricted to around 2g/day.
            (Is this valid for a child of 7 years also?)

            Does paracetamol do you more harm than good?
            “However, in 2011, Professor Michael Doherty, a rheumatologist at Nottingham University, published a study looking at almost 900 patients aged 40 and older who took paracetamol, ibuprofen or a combination of both for chronic knee pain. When he compared the participants after 13 weeks, it came as no surprise that one in five on ibuprofen lost the equivalent of a unit of blood through internal bleeding. What was surprising was that so, too, had the same proportion of patients who were taking paracetamol.
            “Paracetamol can actually be a very dangerous drug,” says Dr John Dickson, who retired from general practice in Northallerton, North Yorkshire, last year. “It can cause kidney and liver problems, and causes as much gastrointestinal bleeding as the NSAIDs.”

            In 2013, the US Food and Drugs Administration (FDA) even issued warnings that taking paracetamol can, in some rare instances, cause potentially fatal skin conditions called Stevens-Johnson Syndrome, toxic epidermal necrolysis and acute generalized exanthematous pustulosis, which can cause the top layer of skin to become detached.”

            And all this is after a report by WHO:
            Evidence on the use of paracetamol in febrile children:Fiona M. Russell, Frank Shann, Nigel Curtis, & Kim Mulholland

            Should you go out and teach doctors or patients: a simple case of warped thinking.

            As I said, it is easy to be a chemist: extremely difficult to be a Doctor.

          • > The chemical engineering department published a paper on 200C.

            I thought you said chemists did not understand medicine. Oh, you mean only when it suits you?

            Well, this paper shows that the so called “reputable” Homeo pharma is not reputable at all. They are selling you remedies claiming them to be 200C when it is clearly not 200C. You should be angry at them for not having “quality control” over even the most simple and stupid process, not that you discovered some science mystery or nano-medicine here.

          • Iqbal Krishna diverted: blah blah blah
            paracetomol
            blah blah blah
            paracetomol
            blah blah blah blah
            paracetomol
            blah blah blah
            paracetomol
            blah blah

            So… all that text and nothing to contribute to the case for homeopathy. That was kind of pointless.

          • Ravi

            “I thought you said chemists did not understand medicine. Oh, you mean only when it suits you?”
            The chemical engineering department was not creating medicine as is done in the allopathic system. They evaluated one specific medicine to find what the medicine contained.

            “Well, this paper shows that the so called “reputable” Homeo pharma is not reputable at all. They are selling you remedies claiming them to be 200C when it is clearly not 200C.”
            Are you really so obtuse, or is it just a diversionary tactic? As a chemist you expect nothing and if the result is contrary, you insinuate that the chemical engineering experts at IIT Mumbai do not understand contamination or residue? Sitting on your desk, you write off their expertise because the science you studied was 50 years old.

            ” You should be angry at them for not having “quality control” over even the most simple and stupid process, not that you discovered some science mystery or nano-medicine here.”
            I am angry at you for being not only stupid, but continuing to repeatedly make a fool of your self. Indians are generally intelligent enough to know when to stop.

          • “Indians are generally intelligent enough to know when to stop.”

            Oh, the irony!!

          • > Are you really so obtuse, or is it just a diversionary tactic?

            If any homeopathic remedy contains particles, then it is by definition AT MOST 12C and most definitely not 200C. There is no drug regulation in Homeopathy, as with all of CAM. In drugs manufactured by Ayurvedic pharma, some 30% did not even have what they claim to contain. CAM is just belief-driven, not by what is in the bottle.

            No one checks Homeo pharma for fraud or lack of quality control, after all, there is no accepted test to differentiate between 30C and 200C, because they are in fact the same – (evaporated) water on sugar.

            So naturally, Homeo pharma appears to be treating Homeo clients like donkeys and is just doing token dilutions to save money. A better test would be to manually create the 200C dilution by hand, using clean vials and pipettes that have not been for the given substance before and then measure on that. The authors simply state that these are “reputable manufacturers” and basically declare that a gold-standard. I don’t know if the full text describes a better gold standard, but as the abstract goes, it shows poor competence in reasoning and that is sad given that this is IIT.

            > because the science you studied was 50 years old.

            Please look in the mirror. You haven’t been in school in what, 40 years? You also seem to be the only one on this board who lacks proper science education (and too dumb to realize that to boot).

            And my views are very current.

            https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/pressroom/newsreleases/2016/may/do-homeopathic-remedies-work-video.html

            > you insinuate that the chemical engineering experts at IIT Mumbai do not understand contamination or residue?

            At least from the abstract, yes. From the abstract, they certainly seem to have started with a false assumption of 200C actually being real (from merely the label). I will have to see the full text if they considered contamination or residue.

            > “Indians are generally intelligent enough to know when to stop.”

            Oh, please look yourself in the mirror.

            > continuing to repeatedly make a fool of your self

            Iqbal, everyone here considers YOU a fool. Your Dunning-Kruger prevents you from realizing that. The only thing you have going for yourself is that you are a jobless retiree with too much time on your hands. Many here have doctorates, more than one even, and in medicine and other life sciences and are published in mainstream journals. You are the only one with a minimal chemistry degree, never seem to have done any academic research and you keep howling that everyone here is a chemist and don’t get medicine. You don’t realize how absurd this is.

          • Ravi

            “If any homeopathic remedy contains particles, then it is by definition AT MOST 12C and most definitely not 200C. There is no drug regulation in Homeopathy, as with all of CAM. ”

            Once a chemist, only a chemist. It is not the homeopaths saying that there should be no molecule in 200C. It is the stupid chemists who have messed up the medical world with molecules and insist on finding it in all solutions.
            I agree that presently there is no regulation. As science progresses, this will be possible.
            “Identification of Unknown Homeopathic Remedies by Delayed Luminescence”

            http://huoli.de/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/unknownremedies.pdf
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23872840

            “No one checks Homeo pharma for fraud or lack of quality control, after all, there is no accepted test to differentiate between 30C and 200C, because they are in fact the same – (evaporated) water on sugar.”

            This is set to change.
            Comparison of homeopathic globules prepared from high and ultra-high dilutions of various starting materials by ultraviolet light spectroscopy
            https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0965229915300388

            “So naturally, Homeo pharma appears to be treating Homeo clients like donkeys and is just doing token dilutions to save money. A better test would be to manually create the 200C dilution by hand, using clean vials and pipettes that have not been for the given substance before and then measure on that.
            “https://www.dutchhts.nl/a-study-the-validity-high-potency-homeopathic-remedies/”

            “I don’t know if the full text describes a better gold standard, but as the abstract goes, it shows poor competence in reasoning and that is sad given that this is IIT.”
            There are many ways to confirm an obtuse person: perfect statement.

            “You haven’t been in school in what, 40 yearsalso seem to be the only one on this board who lacks proper science education (and too dumb to realize that to boot).”

            How much of research that validates homeopathic medicines above you have known? All is done in the recent past and mostly by physicists and chemists who have nothing to do with homeopathy. And all you continue to repeat is chemistry: you don’t even understand the extent of mess created by Paracetamol and such crude drugs.

            “And my views are very current.”
            Only it seems about a small part of chemistry. You have zero understanding of homeopathy. Do you know what Q stands for in homeopathy potency? And what does it mean?

            “https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/pressroom/newsreleases/2016/may/do-homeopathic-remedies-work-video.html”
            You see where it comes from? American CHEMICAL Society. What did you expect from your cousins?
            Take time and read comments right under the video. How many times you have to be told that” Doctor is not supposed to be a chemist”. A doctor will treat you for insomnia and you will be able to sleep on your own. A chemist can only offer you a “sleeping pill” that will shut part of your brain and put you in a state of unconsciousness.

            https://www.thecut.com/2017/10/the-vicious-cycle-of-insomnia-and-sleeping-pills.html
            “That’s right. The way that they work is by targeting a set of receptors, or “welcome sites,” in the brain that are lured to basically stop your brain cells from firing. They principally attack those sites in the cortex, this wrinkle of tissue on the top of your brain, and they just switch off the top of your cortex, the top of your brain, and put you into a state of unconsciousness.
            Sleep, in contrast, is this incredibly complex ballet of neurochemcial brilliance that results in numerous areas of the brain both switching on and switching off. We don’t have any good pharmacological approach right now to replicate such a nuanced and complex set of biological changes.
            My second problem with sleeping pills: They don’t tend to increase sleep much beyond placebos. People may be fooled into thinking that they’re getting more sleep, but actually they’re not. This was not my conclusion — it was a committee of experts, who reviewed 65 separate drug placebo studies, and their conclusion was simple: There was no objective benefit of sleeping pills beyond placebo. Their summary was that the impact of sleeping pills was small, and of questionable clinical importance.”

            “And my third problem: They are associated with a higher risk of death and cancer.”

            You see what a chemist managed to do: The patient did not get to SLEEP and ended up with cancer and early death as bonus. The fun in allopathy: doctors join the game as they have been trained to accept what pharmaceutical companies’ drug push: with a few exceptions using their observation to swim against the tide.

            “At least from the abstract, yes. From the abstract, they certainly seem to have started with a false assumption of 200C actually being real (from merely the label). I will have to see the full text if they considered contamination or residue.”
            Reconfirming obtuse.

            “continuing to repeatedly make a fool of your self”
            A chemist masquerading as a doctor of medicine, not knowing what is the real outcome of drugs sold as medicine, knows more chemistry than a group of teachers and research scholars of chemical engineering department of a premier Institute, and with zero clue about homeopathy: you have a better way to define a fool?
            American research is considered the best in medicine: Americans are the most sick people in the world: eating trillion of dollars of medicine every year. Is this coherent outcome or it proves that the research and medicine is making them more ill? If the research was really good and effective, Americans should be the healthiest, requiring the least amount of medicine.

            “Your Dunning-Kruger prevents you from realizing that.”
            For each statement reproduced here to negate your stupid assertion, there is a referenced doctor or a scientist form the medical world. Start using the DK label for these eminent people: don’t confuse the subject and deflect blame.

            ” Many here have doctorates, more than one even, and in medicine and other life sciences and are published in mainstream journals.”

            Don’t make me laugh. Edzard was the Chair of Complementary Medicine for 20 years. With hands on training (six months?) in a plethora of disciplines. What did he do for Complementary medicine other than running it into the ground? I am amazed!

            “You are the only one with a minimal chemistry degree, never seem to have done any academic research and you keep howling that everyone here is a chemist and don’t get medicine. You don’t realize how absurd this is.”
            You cannot stop confusing a chemist with a medical doctor. Check what happens when chemists lead doctors by their nose: the real absurdity:
            https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2018/03/09/fewer-heart-attack-patients-die-top-cardiologists-away-conferences/
            http://jaha.ahajournals.org/content/7/6/e008230
            And this research is not done by me. But I am positive all actions taken by cardiologists are defined by stupid chemists with doctorates sitting in pharmaceutical companies: you disagree? Ask Edzard.

          • I think this clears it up quite well. Apparently, one of the authors contacted Dr. Hall but failed to answer basic questions.

            https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/homeopathy-and-nanoparticles/

            Yes, it was a completely incompetent study as I suspected. Studies like this bring shame to IIT.

            In my institution, I am required to clear even simple publications with senior researchers to make sure I am not claiming anything unsubstantiable. That also gives me some piece of mind because the last thing I want to do is say something silly in a formal publication.

            I wonder if there is such a review process in place in IIT at all to ensure basic quality of the studies. If there is, it seems to have failed here. The errors noted are very elementary – graduate students should be able to propose better studies for their projects. The responses from the author seem most unprofessional. Also, hh is just an adjunct, not full faculty. That saves IIT some face.

            https://www.amazon.com/Shantaram-Kane/e/B00IK8S6XM/

            But he seems to claim a doctorate from MIT. Looking at his response, I am beginning to suspect that.

            At least, I think M.I.T, USA does not refer to what we would think of – Massachusetts Institute of Technology. If so, he is being deliberately deceptive. I would like to know what that MIT stands for here. Something does not look right.

          • “But he seems to claim a doctorate from MIT. Looking at his response, I am beginning to suspect that.
            At least, I think M.I.T, USA does not refer to what we would think of – Massachusetts Institute of Technology. If so, he is being deliberately deceptive. I would like to know what that MIT stands for here. Something does not look right.”

            From Kane’s Facebook page he “studied” course 10 (chemical engineering) at Massachusetts Institute of Technology. If he completed the course successfully, he’d earn a BSc, but not the SciD with which he’s credited on Amazon.com.

          • What difference would any title make, when somebody cannot accept the simplest of proven, validated facts, that once you dilute a solution some millions of times, nothing remains in it?

          • Ravi

            “I think this clears it up quite well. Apparently, one of the authors contacted Dr. Hall but failed to answer basic questions.”

            You confirm my christening of you as Mir Jafar. Hall is more sacred to you compared to Dr Kane. Impressive.

            There were 3 others in reference: you try to cross check?

            Prof A.K. Suresh is a Professor of Chemical Engineering at IIT Bombay and currently also the Dean of Faculty Affairs of the Institute, with responsibilities towards faculty recruitment, management and development. He had his education in Mysore University (B.Tech.), Indian Institute of Science (M.E.) and Monash University (Ph.D.).
            (You know something about IISc Bangalore and Monash University in Australia?)

            Dr Jayesh Bellare B.Tech., Chemical Engg., I.I.T. Bombay, Ph.D. Chemical Engg., U. Minnesota, Minneapolis, PostDoc, Materials Science, M.I.T., Cambridge, U.S.A.,
            (Which of these institutions is suspect?)

            Prashant S Chikramane
            Quintiles Transnational Ltd. (2005-2006) – Worked as Clinical Research Associate – Involved in clinical trials in Phase II and Phase III for various indications such as Post-Menopausal Osteoporosis etc
            Sun Pharmaceutical Ltd. (2003-2005) – Worked as Clinical Research Officer – Involved in Clinical trials of NCE (Phase I) indicated for allergic conditions
            M. Pharm. – Medicinal Chemistry (2003), Institute of Chemical Technology, University of Mumbai (UICT), Matunga, Mumbai, B.Pharm. (2000) – University of Pune

            “..it was a completely incompetent study as I suspected. Studies like this bring shame to IIT.”
            If Hall says so. You believe, Hall is any different to Edzard?

            “In my institution, I am required to clear even simple publications with senior researchers to make sure I am not claiming anything unsubstantial. That also gives me some piece of mind because the last thing I want to do is say something silly in a formal publication.”
            It only goes to prove your capability as understood by your seniors as also surprisingly, you.

            “I wonder if there is such a review process in place in IIT at all to ensure basic quality of the studies.”
            This study has already been cited by 209 researchers.

            ” Also,….. is just an adjunct, not full faculty. That saves IIT some face.”
            Is that correct? You missed the other researchers or did not understand the references?

            “But he seems to claim a doctorate from MIT. Looking at his response, I am beginning to suspect that.”
            Time you started suspecting your own understanding and capabilities, as your seniors do for you!

            “Something does not look right.”
            Take away your blinkers.

          • Spell check: peace, not piece.

            > Hall is more sacred to you compared to Dr Kane.

            Science does not work by “sacred” people.

            > You confirm my christening of you as Mir Jafar.

            Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Don’t be a scoundrel!!

            I celebrate a rational Indian scientist with actual accomplishments more, because the country desperately needs more rational scientists to take it forward. By the same token, I have additional scorn for an idiotic and irrational “scientists” in India because they are taking the country back, something the country can afford much less than developed countries.

            I have nothing but disgust for pretend-scientists like Kane. I watched a few videos on Youtube. He is an idiot. He is Hegde-grade, not even Sheldrake-grade crank. He won’t look like an idiot to you because you share his idiocy. He is not doctorate material – not even close. His record shows that. No publication record to speak of. And his claim of an MIT doctorate appears dubious as per information he himself furnished. Something is fishy here.

            But the paper does not bring shame because of Kane. Even well-known western universities have low standards for adjuncts. IIT can get a pass for an adjunct being stupid.

            What is worrying is that IIT’s regular faculty are the primary authors. That calls into question, not just this publication, but every publication authored by these authors, because the error is so egregious. I am not a Chemistry major. I could spot that absurd claim the instant I read that abstract. This is ridiculous. It is excusable if the authors made a subtle error in establishing controls. That happens now and then. Well meaning scientists make errors. But these errors are inexcusable for anyone who is not a trainee. Hegde also makes these same basic errors. It also questions IIT’s ability to police itself from pseudo science.

            > If Hall says so. You believe

            Don’t believe Dr. Hall. She put forward 3 simple questions. These are extremely basic questions. So answer them. Kane ran away with his tail between his legs because there were no answers to give. I have the paper now and she is right. She posted the full text link on a Homeopathy site and they took it down (wonder why). And she made sure that she understood the paper by checking with a Chemistry professor from McGill.

            3 questions… go for it.

            > You know something about IISc Bangalore and Monash University in Australia

            If he published this crap from Monash, they would start distancing themselves from him, just like Cambridge distanced from Sheldrake when he tried disingenuously associate himself. IIT should too.

            If a good paper with sound science is published, it wins credit. Likewise, publishing pseudoscience junk like this earns discredit. IIT should throw out faculty that does not have minimal rational thinking abilities. They have a reputation to safeguard. I want to be proud of them.

            > This study has already been cited by 209 researchers.

            Right. 211 now. 2 more since you saw it. Collect all the author names from each of these publications. You now have a list of pretend-researchers who have no critical thinking abilities.

            What does citation count even mean here? Most/all of them are in useless CAM publications with almost no peer review standards. If flat-earthers start a few journals and furiously cite each others idiotic papers, that does not mean anything? How many mainstream publications with sound impact factors cited this?

            > Time you started suspecting your own understanding and capabilities, as your seniors do for you!

            This isn’t a rubber factory where you worked. It is an organization with a reputation. When we make errors, it makes news. Everyone is accountable and reviewed, including the top-most leaders, by outside experts.

            > Take away your blinkers.

            Blinders is the word you are looking for, not blinkers. You are well past blinders. You are blind, both to science and basic reason.

    • This media report https://thewire.in/health/half-india-rejects-government-medical-care is about the National Health and Family Survey. It’s worth reading in itself. It’s possible to argue about the relative significance of different surveys but it is more recent. It shows an even lower level of AYUSH usage, about 0.3% in urban setttings, 1.5% in rural settings – approximately 1% overall. Considerably more Government money is spent on Ayurveda. There are likely large regional variations in the prevalence of the different kinds of AYUSH but I’ve not looked into it. http://rchiips.org/NFHS/NFHS-4Report.shtml is where the report and data can be found.

      (I did briefly look at childhood immunisation – some parts of India are doing very badly).

      The Ministry of AYUSH is a relatively recently invention. AYUSH used be dealt with by a minor department of the Ministry of Health and Family Welfare. As part of streamlining and increasing the effectiveness of Government, it has been suggested that the Ministry of AYUSH goes back to that and that some of its projects are abandoned.

      Part of the reason that Naik and the Ministry of AYUSH is that Indian laws that relate to false claims in advertising of medicines specifically exempt Government!

  • India has the most Homeopathy colleges in the world. It should be noted that probably not even a single one of these Homeopaths got there because they dreamt of being one. They all just wanted to be regular doctors, but did not score enough in the hyper-competitive medical school entrance exam. The medical aspirants make this choice when they are 18 or so. It is quite likely that none of them knew what Homeopathy really was. I don’t know of a survey that examines the awareness at the time of the decision (Even Edzard thought that Homeopathy was legit at that age due to the society around him – and this was in much richer and much better educated Europe). That would be useful. They just saw it as a second-tier medical degree, when the first was no longer available to them.

    Then they are taught the usual basic sciences courses, just with less rigor. This makes it clear to many (as per second hand information) that this is bunk. But now they are stuck with it. The educational system is less flexible in developing countries than in rich countries and it is much harder to change gears midway.

    Very recently, our government announced that it was considering giving limited prescribing rights (to modern medicines) to Homeopaths and traditional medicine practitioners. A true-blue Homeopath (like Iqbal) would be revolted at the idea (and he was) because they tend to be raised in a cauldron of venom against “allopathy” – the Enemy. But many Indian Homeopaths, including apparently Homeopathy lecturers in Homeopathy colleges, were however very enthusiastic about finally becoming real doctors, if only partial ones…. and protested in support, against the resistance by regular doctors.

    https://health.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/industry/homeopathy-ayurveda-doctors-hold-rally-supporting-nmc/62798280

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/02/indian-doctors-protest-against-plan-to-let-quacks-practice-medicine

    Even otherwise, I heard homeopaths in India say they believe in using both. Many (I have no statistics, this is just hearsay) college trained homeopaths would be fine dispensing Paracetamol, while someone like Iqbal will go on Google trip to find every paper that even slightly critically evaluates it.

    The main issue is that we don’t have enough medical colleges. Our per-capita physician counts are still low and physicians are not as eager to move to villages. Many of the roots of these problems are economy driven, not ideology based. The rest are based on inadequate science foundations in school (also indirectly economy problems).

    That said, despite this sympathy, I am still very annoyed at Homeopathy. Damn you Germans :-). You could have laughed a little louder at Hahnemann. Now fix it. Do more Edzards. This one is on you.

    • I’ve been told that homeopathy is a 6/7th choice. I don’t know if many applicants know that DHMS and BHMS are not recognised outside of the Indian sub-continent and a couple of other countries. Graduates can not practice in the West, unlike MBBS graduates. I’ve seen in various places online the questions about practicing in the US and Canada and the answer is always no.

      I have seen a couple of scams that prey on DHMS/BHMS graduates. Cynical indivduals outright claimed that their expensive courses were recognised in the West and thus allowed graduates to work. There have been courses that imply recognition as well, although if you read the small print, they don’t actually state this but nor do they explain that the courses have no recognised status of any kind. They are worthless.

      DHMS/BHMS graduates are found in the West, but how they got there is unclear. Certainly, no work/residence permit would be granted on the basis of their qualifications. The use of the title of “Dr” is forbidden and in countries like France, it would be a criminal offence for them to practice. In France, only MDs are allowed to practice medicine.

    • Ravi

      “Many (I have no statistics, this is just hearsay) college trained homeopaths would be fine dispensing Paracetamol, while someone like Iqbal will go on Google trip to find every paper that even slightly critically evaluates it.”

      Let us first focus on something you are sure of-no hearsay: allopaths prescribe Paracetamol at the drop of the hat if they see fever in patients. So the root cause is their lack of knowledge about “Why fever” in the first place. Do you have any clue as to why the immune system raises body’s temperature? And what it means to bring it down? When science courses are taught with vigor, basics go missing!!!!!!!!! And you BELIEVE it is good teaching. You require to get your head examined. If the great medical college teachers do not even understand the basics of the body functions, what do you expect as outcome? Zombies in white coats killing patients.

      ““I’ve spent 25 years proving that what we lovingly call clinical judgment is woefully outmatched by the complexities of medicine.” Think about the implications for helping patients make decisions, Eddy adds. “Go to one doctor, and get one answer. Go to another, and get a different one.” Or think about expert testimony. “You don’t have to hire an expert to lie. You can just find one who truly believes the number you want.”
      You see the outcome! Because the foundation of REAL medical science is missing, every doctor does what he “BELIEVES” is right.

      For your information, no homeopath doctor, worth his salt will ever prescribe Paracetamol:

      “……every paper that even slightly critically evaluates it.”
      How many dead children would you like to see before Paracetamol is moved off the shelves. Every single dengue death in India can be traced back to use of paracetamol at the start of fever.

      It is one completely useless medication and dangerous chemical sold through stupid doctors and parents who have zero clue.

      • “For your information, no homeopath doctor, worth his salt will ever prescribe Paracetamol”
        Please see https://www.remedia-homeopathy.com/en/acetaminophen/a210117

        • Frank Odds

          You seem to be lost between drug and medicine.

          You should learn to differentiate between crude drug and successed medicine?

          There is Arsenic trioxide

          https://www.remedia-homeopathy.com/en/arsenicum-album/a400137

          and Rattle snake

          https://www.remedia-homeopathy.com/en/crotalus/a345

          • > There is Arsenic trioxide
            > and Rattle snake

            There is also Berlin Wall and Saturn Light.

          • Iqbal Krishna

            “You should learn to differentiate between crude drug and successed [sic] medicine?” The link I provided to homeopathic paracetamol (=acetaminophen) clearly describes succussed dilutions, in exactly the same way as your arsenic trioxide and rattlesnake links describe succussed dilutions.

            You said: “For your information, no homeopath doctor, worth his salt will ever prescribe Paracetamol”. I provided a link that begins “Acetaminophen — Main name: Paracetamolum — Other names for this homeopathic remedy: p-Acetylamidophenol, p-Hydroxyacetanilid, 4-Acetamidophenol.” [my italics]. Please explain why Remedia Homeopathica offers homeopathic paracetamol. Do Remedia Homeopathics merely provide remedies for prescription by homeopathic ‘doctors’ not worth their natrium muriaticum?

          • I guess homeopathic Paracetamol cures painlessness and normal body temperature?

          • Ravi

            “There is also Berlin Wall and Saturn Light.”

            Provide me link to the homeopathic materia medica with this information.

            Doctors don’t look at INTERNET or sales rep for medicine information.

          • Frank Odds

            “Do Remedia Homeopathics merely provide remedies for prescription by homeopathic ‘doctors’ not worth their natrium muriaticum?”

            Doctors make decision based upon homeopathic materia medica: not manufacturer’s price list.

            Paracetamol does figure on Helois : It is manufactured for allopaths:

            “Paracetamol, also known as acetaminophen or APAP, is a medication used to treat pain and fever. It is typically used for mild to moderate pain. The quality of the evidence regarding the use for fever relief in children is poor. It is often sold in combination with other ingredients such as in many cold medications. In combination with opioid pain medication, paracetamol is also used for more severe pain such as cancer pain and after surgery. It is typically used either by mouth or rectally but is also available intravenously. Effects last between two and four hours.”
            https://www.helios.co.uk/shop/paracetamol

          • > Doctors don’t look at INTERNET or sales rep for medicine information.

            Doctors don’t consider any homeo remedy or provings to be “medicine information”.

            At least you draw the line at imponderables and agree that these guys are idiots.

            http://www.interhomeopathy.org/editorial-imponderables-a-force-to-be-reckoned-with
            http://www.interhomeopathy.org/trituration_proving_of_the_light_of_saturn

            I thought you had no standards of any kind.

            But a proving of any imponderable is no more fantastical than that of common salt. It just makes it harder to hide a snicker.

            If you have any common sense though, you would see the process of the so-called proving exposed at least through imponderables. It shows how people will just ramble about feeling arbitrary things if you just tell them that they got some substance and that they are supposed to feel something. But no, your logic shuts down there again.

          • Ravi, my friend, the Materia Magica is Iqbal’s favorite book of fiction. Iqbal making references to this piece of fantasy is enough proof that his brain is malfunctioning way below the reasoning level. Fellow Iqbal does not care anymore to confirm the completely inexistent things he believes in, not even for his own good. He simply wants to see them, and lives on the premise of them being there. The typical unipolar disorder of belief perseverance. His cognitive dissonance is evident in his brutal defensiveness for homeopathy, a thing he never even got a chance to ever properly validate in his life.

          • Ravi

            “Doctors don’t consider any homeo remedy or provings to be “medicine information”.

            No. Homeopath doctors are trained to observe and ask questions. Provings get cross checked.Such foolish provings reach dustbins: never the homeopathic materia medica.

            “At least you draw the line at imponderables and agree that these guys are idiots.”
            No question about it. Unless there are reconfirmations from other doctors.

            “But a proving of any imponderable is no more fantastical than that of common salt. It just makes it harder to hide a snicker.”
            You have no clue. One condition that Natrum Mur is used for is “Marasmus” in which if only the upper body is affected: one dose of Natrum Mur 200 and see the outcome!

            “If you have any common sense though, you would see the process of the so-called proving exposed at least through imponderables. ”
            As I repeatedly say you remain to be a low intellect chemist:
            Traumeel – an emerging option to nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs in the management of acute musculoskeletal injuries
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3760822/

          • Traumeel, one, among many things, that makes almost no difference. Here, Iqbal quotes the link. When results are positive for homeopathy, Iqbal likes them. That just about sums it up!

            If only upper body is affected from Marasmus, take one dose of nothing and see outcome. Exactly the same with nat mur 200!

          • > Natrum Mur is used for is “Marasmus”

            Used, but useless. The patient is starving. They need proper food, not imaginary salt.

      • > So the root cause is their lack of knowledge about “Why fever” in the first place.
        > Do you have any clue as to why the immune system raises body’s temperature?
        > And what it means to bring it down?

        What is the count of the times you have repeated this Eddy and Paracetamol post?

        Which textbook of Pathology have you read to develop this superior understanding of fever?
        By that I mean reading end to end, not skimming a paragraph here and there.

        • Homeopaths have a thing about fever. It’s the body healing itself. Treating it is “suppressive”. Anti-pyretics can turn the “dis-ease” into something terrible.

          And paracetamol causes autism according to some of them.

          • UK Homeopathy Regulation

            “Homeopaths have a thing about fever. It’s the body healing itself. Treating it is “suppressive”. Anti-pyretics can turn the “dis-ease” into something terrible. ”

            If a person has TB and consequently nightly fever, you will treat the patient for TB to bring down fever or give paracetamol to reduce fever and cure him of TB?

            You should start reading about “suppression”

            “Why Eczema Often Leads To Asthma”
            “Many children who get a severe skin rash develop asthma months or years later. Doctors call the progression from eczema to breathing problems the atopic march. Now scientists have uncovered what might be the key to atopic march.”
            https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090518213939.htm

            This is common knowledge in homeopathy.
            “Chronic asthma ; sudden suppression of chronic eruptions ; psoriasis ; gout ; tendency to skin eruptions ; patient subject to fainting spells ; sinking sensation in the forenoon ; flushes of heat, Sulph. 3, 6h. ”

            http://www.homeoint.org/books4/boerirep/respiratory.htm#bronchial
            Eruptions, suppressed, [from] — Ars., Hep., Psor., Sul.

          • @Iqbal Krishna:

            Eruptions, suppressed, [from] — Ars.

            Better out than in, huh?

        • Ravi

          “Which textbook of Pathology have you read to develop this superior understanding of fever?”

          Why not recommend one that says fever should be immediately brought down. And my comment would be: The book, its author, the science used for such rationale and you should be put into a bottomless trash basket from where nothing can be retrieved.

          While in it, you may read:
          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4703655/
          Homeopathy is “letting it ride” for over 200 years and allopathy is still looking at the pendulum, and in the process either killing patients or making them chronically ill.

          “What is the count of the times you have repeated this Eddy and Paracetamol post?”
          I like to repeat Dr Eddy’s comment, for one of you to come up and explain to all that he suffers from “Dunning–Kruger effect”, because he had the audacity to call scientific medical bluff in almost all areas of medicine.
          And the Paracetamol is to show the poor application of mind and lack of basic knowledge allopath doctors exhibit. This includes researchers like you and Edzard. Or may be he has more information that he can share with you and rebuts the many doctors I referred.
          While at it, he can also provide trial information and risk analysis for paracetamol.

          • Why not just admit that it never even occurred to you that you should even glance at a Pathology textbook?

            Nope. I think David Eddy is great. It is just that you do quote mining and don’t understand any of the experts you quote. David Eddy would call Homeopathy a quackery just like any other scientist. He is calling for way more EBM, not less. He started that term and he thinks there isn’t enough of it. Sounds great to me.

            So far, I have seen you interpret EVERY expert (and crackpot) in REVERSE. That is what a lack of a sound education with only paper degrees gets you. You were not 50% wrong like small potatoes research in medicine. Like a true homeopath, you were 100% wrong in understanding what all the experts (and crackpots) you cited were trying to say – all while LITERALLY borrowing their words – that takes talent.

          • Fellow Iqbal, we have been there, talked about it, as usual, you peddled your usual excrement, I tried to reason with you, providing you with some facts and explaining away the rest of your crap, but you are immune to facts, so you kept talking about your paranoid mixture of fantasy and reality, creating your own explanations to believe, excluding whatever you don’t like to believe in, because it does not fit with your holy gospels of magic.

            My patience went so far as to keep providing some examples for you, because I really wanted to see what kind of delusional explanations you might find for even the simplest of facts. And you didn’t fail me! You did set the standards on delusion and cognitive dissonance even higher!

            My friend, Ravi, this is a lost cause here. Better inform people who really don’t know what homeopathy is about (shouldn’t be difficult, as it is about nothing, literally). I have taken a brief look at nirmukta after you linked to that and have seen Iqbal’s wildest fantasies unleashed. He has unleashed some occasional crap here as well, but the stuff at nirmukta is too pungent to digest. Iqbal sets the standards as the absolute average victim of homeopathy. After homeopathy has done that to a person, causing them to lose their minds, literally, the rest of health hazards that belief in homeopathy entails are nothing. Without critical faculties, even a life with full health becomes rather difficult to bear.

            Anyway, as usual, this madness ends by retreating, because time is too valuable to spend on a lost cause, plus we, here, are not the ones directly endangered by Iqbal’s fantasies. His close acquaintances are, as are his youngsters, for which I am particuarly worried.

            Fellow Iqbal, we have been over that countless times, you live as if you have had some kind of a revelation there with homeopathy, something like an epiphany. Newsflash is, you didn’t, so don’t count on it. You can keep playing with your turd-in-a-box remedies, toy-medicine is fun, but should ever things get serious for you or your youngsters, drop that crap and go get some real help from properly qualified medical professionals. This is an urge.

          • Ravi

            “Why not just admit that it never even occurred to you that you should even glance at a Pathology textbook?”
            What will an outdated book on pathology inform me about FEVER? The author: a 50 year old, using his knowledge that would be 20 years old, adding update that would be 5 years old. The book after approval (3 years), printing and acceptance (10 years) carries information that is about 18 year old at minimum: in 2018 the book can provide information that was current for 2000.
            Let me provide some updates:
            1/2011
            “Doctors are part of the problem,” Dr. Schmitt said. Some of the phobia “comes from doctors and nurses,” he added — “doctors and nurses who weren’t taught about fever and all the wondrous things fever does in the animal kingdom.”
            (It seems most doctors have no education about fever)
            https://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/11/health/11klass.html

            2/2011
            A misplaced “fever phobia” in society means parents too frequently use both medicines to bring down even quite slight temperatures, say the paediatricians, who warn that children often receive accidental overdoses as a result.
            A high temperature is usually the body’s way of fighting an infection, according to advice issued today by the American Academy of Pediatrics, so to bring it down could actually lengthen the time a child suffers.
            Doctors too readily advise parents to give the medicines, known collectively as “antipyretics”, according to the Academy.
            The advice comes after a study indicated that children given paracetemol before 15 months were more than twice as likely to develop asthma by the age of six as those not given it.
            Writing in a clinical report on fever and the use of paracetamol and ibuprofen in children, the authors warn: “Combination therapy with acetaminophen [paracetamol] and ibuprofen may place infants and children at increased risk because of dosing errors and adverse outcomes, and these potential risks must be carefully considered.”
            They explain: “It should be emphasized that fever is not an illness but is, in fact, a physiologic mechanism that has beneficial effects in fighting infection.”
            It slows the spread of bacteria and viruses, enhances white blood cell production, and “actually helps the body recover more quickly from viral infections”.
            Despite this, they say: “Many parents administer antipyretics even though there is either minimal or no fever.”
            Half consider it to be a fever even if their child’s temperature is not higher than 38C (101.4F), they report.
            Many doctors are happy to advise parents to give paracetamol and ibuprofen alternately – known as combination therapy – believing side effects are very rare and minimal.
            Both medications have potential side effects, notes the Academy. Paracetamol has been linked to asthma, although “causality has not been demonstrated”, while there have been reports of ibuprofen causing stomach ulcers and bleeding, and leading to kidney problems.
            (Great science: kill the patient with drugs even if the body‘s system is protecting it. Is it any different to blood letting?)
            https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/8350422/Fever-medicines-given-to-children-too-readily.html

            3/2011
            Fever, however, is not the primary illness but is a physiologic mechanism that has beneficial effects in fighting infection. There is no evidence that fever itself worsens the course of an illness or that it causes long-term neurologic complications.
            Current evidence suggests that there is no substantial difference in the safety and effectiveness of acetaminophen and ibuprofen in the care of a generally healthy child with fever. There is evidence that combining these 2 products is more effective than the use of a single agent alone; however, there are concerns that combined treatment may be more complicated and contribute to the unsafe use of these drugs.
            Janice E. Sullivan, Henry C. Farrar, the Section on Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics, Committee on Drugs. American Academy of Pediatrics
            (Check if you can find some dirt on these researchers. Wrong schools?)
            http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/127/3/580.full
            “Fever is the body’s normal response to infection — it’s a natural defense mechanism,” says Janice Sullivan, a professor of pediatric clinical care and clinical pharmacology at the University of Louisville School of Medicine and a co-author of the report. She says that a high temperature triggers the body’s production of infection-fighting white blood cells and inhibits the growth of viruses and bacteria. “If you lower the fever, you may be affecting the body’s ability to respond to that infection.”

            12/2012
            An increasing amount of evidence is now suggesting that fever lowering in infections, and particularly sepsis, may not be as harmless as previously thought. A number of studies that will be discussed here have shown that fever improves the immune response and leads to better outcomes in infections. Specifically, mortality in sepsis may actually be reduced if the fever is allowed to take its course untreated even to what is considered relatively high temperatures of 40-41ºC/104-105.8ºF).
            (Scientific knowledge that you are all proud of: what says you: Edzard?)
            http://www.escavo.com/should-fever-reduced-septic-patients/

            12/2015
            Suppress fever: in general, two critical assumptions form the basis of the argument for treating fevers, neither of which have been experimentally validated.
            Let it ride: Those in the “let it ride” camp advocate that fever is a protective mechanism with benefits ranging from enhancing immune-cell function to promoting antimicrobial activity. In the past decade several studies have supported this hypothesis. A randomized control trial published by our institution in 2005 sought to evaluate the impact of antipyretic therapy on outcomes in critically ill patients. Patients were randomized to an aggressive treatment group, consisting of acetaminophen 650 mg every 6 hours for fever >38.5 °C with addition of a cooling blanket for temperature of >39.5 °C, or a permissive group where treatment was initiated at a temperature of >40 °C with acetaminophen and cooling blankets. The study had to be terminated at the interim analysis as there were seven deaths in the aggressive group and only one death in the permissive group.
            More and more high-level randomized controlled trials are supporting the “let it ride” philosophy compared to the original prospective observational studies, which seem to support the opposite.
            (Doctors therefore follow the non-validated procedure: bring down fever with drugs and kill patients: this is defined as evidence based medicine. David Eddy will disagree)
            While clinicians will likely continue to argue the validity of the proposed adaptive or maladaptive mechanisms of fever, recent studies such as the one by Young et al. should support reconsideration of the Pavlovian treatment response to elevated temperature in the critical care setting.
            (Check for the qualifications of the researchers and their educational background: you should hopefully pick up some dirt)
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4703655/

            And the best part: 1/2014
            Fever-reducing medications, which are often taken by people with flu, can result in the infection of tens of thousands of additional people each flu season. That is one of the findings of new research, as reported by Discovery News.
            Fever, though unpleasant, can actually be beneficial. The condition can lower the amounts of virus in a sick person’s body, because viruses replicate less efficiently in higher temperatures. Fever can also help immune responses work better.
            Using mathematical models to assess the effects of widespread use of medications that suppress fever, researchers found that in a typical flu season, fever-reducing drugs such as ibuprofen and acetaminophen may lead to tens of thousands of additional influenza cases, as well as more than a thousand deaths attributable to influenza, across North America.
            The researchers said future experiments are needed to determine the precise increase in virus levels in the body associated with fever reduction. Studies are also needed to estimate the increase in disease spread from sick people who took fever-reducing drugs that made them feel better, allowing them to go to school or work when they should have stayed home.
            So reducing your own fever is helping you kill your friend, neighbor, colleague in office…….
            This may not appear in a now published pathology book. The old ones would be even more useless.

            I believe I have provided sufficient information on a simple subject. Would you agree: Edzard? Even dumb idiots will catch on. So no more discussion. If you do not understand still, talk to the researcher referred.

            Next time you or your children have fever, try Paracetamol, ibuprofen and aspirin: in this order and cross your fingers.

          • Fellow Iqbal, you are enjoyable! This is marvellous, what you post here. Thank you, really. Without you, the world would be so empty. It is evident that fever is 5 adjacent letters for you, that’s all the information you got. You also forgot the recommended treatment for it. Sugar pills!

            Now, let’s try again… how does fever develop, Iqbal? We’ve talked about it a few months ago. Exams time!

  • Here is the sad state of Homeopaths in India.

    This is today’s news:

    Nearly 1000 homeopaths are now going on an indefinite hunger strike to demand to allow them to take a 6 month bridge course so that they may legally prescribe at least some modern medicines. They are saying they will take to the streets and fill the jails.

    https://www.mumbailive.com/en/health/homeopathy-doctors-hunger-strike-march-in-mumbai-for-bridge-course-in-national-medical-commission-bill-22295

    http://www.asianage.com/metros/mumbai/050418/homeopath-doctors-across-state-agitate-for-bridge-course.html

    Here is a homeopath telling the press that needs those modern meds: “He added that while providing medical treatment in rural areas, it becomes necessary to prescribe allopathy medicine”.

    I would suppose so. In an urban area, you can offload your case to an actual doctor next door when it isn’t an auto-resolving condition that you can humor with sugar pills. But in a rural area, there isn’t that escape. Villagers can come with sticks if they feel you lost them a child.

    Iqbal is a fanatic, brain-washed from childhood, who had a non-medical industrial job and only seems to practice this quackery as an amateur with his family and friends. His views are more like a tin-foil hippie sticking it to the man and feeling like a rebel.

    But the reality of professional Homeopaths in India is something completely different.

    There are however pockets in India where Homeopaths are hindering vaccine efforts, thereby endangering public health.

    • In an urban area, you can offload your case to an actual doctor next door when it isn’t an auto-resolving condition that you can humor with sugar pills. But in a rural area, there isn’t that escape. Villagers can come with sticks if they feel you lost them a child.

      This is a most valuable comment. In the past, inhabitants of small towns in Europe and the USA used to subject quacks to tarring and feathering, then run them out of town — if the quacks were stupid enough to stay around too long. In the absence of proper medical support, the evidence for the failure of Big Snakeoil swiftly becomes self-evident, even in the absence of prospective, randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind clinical trials.

    • The HOMOEOPATHIC PRACTITIONERS (PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT, ETIQUETTE & CODE OF ETHICS) REGULATIONS, 1982 (AS AMENDED UPTO JULY, 2014) http://www.cchindia.com/homoeopathic-practitioners-professional-conduct-etiquette-code-of-ethics-regulations-1982-as-amended-upto-july-2014/ seems to place a duty on homeopaths regarding public health.

      I doubt very much that State Boards of Indian Medicine etc would do anything if concerns were raised.

      • UK Homeopathy Regulation

        “I doubt very much that State Boards of Indian Medicine etc would do anything if concerns were raised.”

        It is easy for homeopaths to follow the regulations and concerns are raised and looked into.

        The real problem would start if these regulation were made common for all doctors:

        “The final tricky part about this issue is that of the needs of the patient vs the needs of society. Physicians are trained, and our ethics demand, that we think first of the patient in front of us. We are their health advocate. We consider the risks vs benefits to that patient of any intervention.
        In the case of antibiotics, however, we are being forced to consider the risks to society as a whole, which does also include the risk of future patients. A physician, therefore, might feel that the risk of unnecessary antibiotic use to their patient is small, while the risk of delayed treatment, if it turns out to be a bacterial infection, could be quite high. This calculation favors prescribing antibiotics liberally.
        We are now being forced to consider, however, the long term effects to society in terms of antibiotic resistance. This means we have to perhaps accept a small increase in risk for the patient in front of us (at least it may feel this way, even if it is not strictly true) to avoid a very bad long term outcome.”

        What would you do?
        https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/overprescribing-antibiotics/

      • The state with this problem is Kerala, a southern state. And all these seem to be uncredentialed homeopaths. The self-taught ones are the wackiest. No code of ethics for them – I doubt they even heard of one.

        The credentialed ones have gone through Biochemistry, Physiology, Pathology and Microbiology, at least at some level. So it would be hard for most of them to say bat-crazy things like Iqbal does.

        The credentialed ones that appear on TV take patient calls live, sound almost exactly like real doctors, until they say at the end: There is medicine for that in Homeopathy.

        India’s Homeopathy problem is somewhat unique, compared to the West.

    • Ravi

      “I would suppose so. In an urban area, you can offload your case to an actual doctor next door when it isn’t an auto-resolving condition that you can humor with sugar pills. But in a rural area, there isn’t that escape. Villagers can come with sticks if they feel you lost them a child.”

      I agree with you. That is the reason why allopaths are missing from rural area. From the link that you sent:
      “Meanwhile, Dr Pravin Shingare, director, medical education and research (DMER), said, “Mostly doctors refrain from serving in rural areas. But AYUSH doctors provide medical services in rural areas.”
      https://www.mumbailive.com/en/health/homeopathy-doctors-hunger-strike-march-in-mumbai-for-bridge-course-in-national-medical-commission-bill-22295

      There is a big group among the homeopaths, that is looking at easy money. In their understanding, allopaths provide drugs that offer a quick fix and the patient is back in few days. Who wouldn’t want such easy and regular income? How does it matter if some children die? These doctors may learn the hard way that in rural setting, they would open themselves to a risk they have not evaluated: the treatment the doctor will get when a patient would die ( which is expected to happen regularly). But then they will have the option to shift to Urban setting: they will kill a child and hand over to the parent with a 1.5 million bill. (A little doubtful: for this one has to build a big super specialty hospital that out does a super deluxe 6 start hotel in looks at least)

      https://fit.thequint.com/health-news/fortis-hospital-accused-of-overcharging-seven-year-old-dengue-patient-2
      https://www.outlookindia.com/website/story/seven-year-old-dies-of-dengue-family-billed-rs-16-lakh/304623
      https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/gurgaon/medanta-refunds-rs-16l-dengue-bill-boys-father-withdraws-complaint/articleshow/63538790.cms

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