MD, PhD, FMedSci, FSB, FRCP, FRCPEd

Homeopathy is never far from my mind, it seems. and this is reflected by the many posts on the subject that I continue to publish. Homeopaths get more than a little irritated by what they see as my ‘obsession’ with their beloved therapy. They thus try anything – yes, I mean anything – to undermine my credibility. One very popular way of doing this is to claim that I am sitting in the ‘ivory tower’ of academia and have no real inkling of the life on the ‘coal face’ of healthcare.

Because this is an argument that I find difficult to counter – I have indeed not routinely seen patients for over 20 years! – I was immensely pleased to read this article by an Australian GP. I take the liberty of quoting a section from it below:

START OF QUOTE

…An intricate web of lies protects the pernicious practice of homeopathy in Australia. Homeopathy is one of the most widespread disciplines of alternative medicines, with an estimated one million Australian consumers. It’s very popular. It also doesn’t work. At all. No better than a sugar pill, anyway. Turns out, vials of homeopathic remedies are chemically indistinguishable from water. Numerous international investigations and a scientific review of over 1800 studies by the National Medical Health Research Council could not be clearer: there is zero evidence that homeopathy is an effective treatment for medical conditions.

And yet the practice of homeopathy in Australia goes largely unchecked. The industry is overwhelmingly self-regulated by its own board, lending it an undue air of legitimacy. Meanwhile homeopaths advertise their ability to treat everything from autism to haemorrhoids with near impunity. Most obscenely, homeopathic therapies attract rebates under private health insurance policies that are funded by public taxes.

The justifications for allowing homeopathy are convoluted. One of the most common defences is that if the remedies truly are ineffective vials of water, then they are harmless. This is perhaps the most toxic myth about these therapies. Giving people a false cure for real symptoms is dangerous, because it delays correct diagnosis and treatment.

As a general practitioner I have observed the consequences of this in practice, seeing patients of homeopaths with conditions ranging from undiagnosed autoimmune disorders to mistreated blood pressure. These experiences mirror more notorious incidents – one West Australian coronial inquest in 2005 revealed a case where a homeopath treated rectal cancer, leading to the patient’s death. In 2009, a nine-month-old child with severe eczema was treated by her homeopath father who was later found guilty of manslaughter by denying her conventional medical care.

These are the kind of horror stories that prompt bureaucracies into symbolic action. Enter the Victorian Health Complaints Commission: a brand new watchdog unveiled last week to reign in, as Premier Daniel Andrews called them, “dodgy health providers”. The idea is that “health service providers” in Victoria, whether officially registered or not, will have to follow a general code of conduct. Included in this category are all homeopaths, and practitioners of other completely debunked practices such as reiki and iridology. The idea seems good on paper. The new code demands practitioners are truthful about their treatments, and act in the patient’s best interest. But here’s the catch – the commission will only take action on complaints lodged against individual practitioners.

This system is clearly geared towards only chasing a handful of rogue practitioners. But the problem isn’t a few rogue practitioners – it’s entirely rogue industries. The discipline of homeopathy, by its very nature, is untruthful.

Perhaps we can begin by following the lead of the United States, where the Federal Trade Council has ruled that homeopathic medicine labels must state that there is no scientific evidence backing homeopathic health claims. You have to admit, it’s bold stuff. It leaves our ACCC looking quite impotent. Real change requires the kind of courage that is in short supply.

That’s what it comes down to – cowardice. Homeopathy, along with an array of debunked complementary and alternative health disciplines, are tolerated by authorities to avoid an inconvenient confrontation. They let it slide to avoid upsetting delusional practitioners, misinformed customers, and anyone profiting from the practice. The presence of disproved medicines has insidiously embedded itself so deeply into our culture that curtailing a false cure is a huge political risk. So the status quo prevails, lest we rock the boat. Never mind that it’s heading straight down a waterfall.

END OF QUOTE

This clearly is a deeply felt and well-expressed article. It reiterates what we have regularly been trying to get across on this blog. But it is much better than anything I could ever contribute to the subject; it comes from someone who encounters the ‘pernicious practice of homeopathy’ on a regular basis and who knows about the harm it can do.

All I need to add is this: WELL DONE DOCTOR VYOM  SHARMA!

108 Responses to The ‘pernicious practice of homeopathy in Australia’: ‘tolerated by authorities to avoid an inconvenient confrontation’

  • Beware we now live in a time where FAKE NEWS has become the order of the day!

    • very true!!!
      but where is the fake news in this post? or are you just trying to distract?

      • You have posted the opinion of one person that happily for you, supports your opinion! The problem I have is that you have not investigated, and probably don’t want to, the possibility that the good doctor MAY have received an incentive or have a personal or commercial agenda for publishing the article!

        “Giving people a false cure for real symptoms is dangerous, because it delays correct diagnosis and treatment”.

        Solution >> work in co-operation with each other so that the patient gets the best of both worlds!

        “This system is clearly geared towards only chasing a handful of rogue practitioners. But the problem isn’t a few rogue practitioners – it’s entirely rogue industries. The discipline of homeopathy, by its very nature, is untruthful.”

        Tarring everyone with the same brush, is the allopath method of treatment whereas homeopathy respects individuality. I cannot speak for the Australian practitioners and their level of training and neither can you but to support the idea that “homeopathy, by its very nature, is untruthful” is indeed FAKE NEWS!

        • my question was: were is the fake news?
          you are allowed to voice your opinions; the Australian doctor must have the same right!

          • Fake news, or hoax news, refers to false information or propaganda published under the guise of being authentic news. Fake news websites and channels push their fake news content in an attempt to mislead consumers of the content and spread misinformation via social networks and word-of-mouth.

            One of the more colorful definitions of fake news comes from PolitiFact: “Fake news is made-up stuff, masterfully manipulated to look like credible journalistic reports that are easily spread online to large audiences willing to believe the fictions and spread the word.”

            Can you offer substantive evidence that it is not FAKE NEWS? That is the problem we all face! and if we continue in this fashion we will all disappear up the proverbial …. so do keep on posting FAKE NEWS and so keep us all amused!

          • what a lot of nonsense!
            you made the claim, you supply the evidence or are disclosed as a liar.

          • Colin- I think we are all amazed that you have the time to post any of this lunatic nonsense in between all your phone calls to ITV and the BBC demanding tevidence that their bulletins are not fake.Surely even a simple soul such as you must see that it is incumbent on you to provide evidence for your mad accusations, not on intelligent people to waste their time ? But then I suppose if evidence were of any importance , you wouldn’t find yourself in your current illusory predicament.To be fair, I suppose that you’re harmless enough as
            One as you mostly stop in.

          • Colin doesn’t understand the difference between one person’s blog (= opinions) and journalism.

            As far as I can tell, Dr. Ernst has never purported to be a journalist on this site and makes no allusions to such. He is a writer, yes, but this blog is his property and is an outlet for his opinions. He can write about, and post, anything he wants. Readers can go to his sources and make up their own minds.

        • What is the ‘best’ of the world of deception and delusion?
          There is only one ‘world’ – we live in it, and collectively ‘we’ have moved on from Hahnemann’s system of medicine.
          Please join us.

        • First of all, homeopathy does NOT respect individuality. It does not even respect your disease, only the symptoms. Second, this practitioners opinion is not only an opinion it is based on solid science. People defending homeopathy do not understand several facts:

          (1) Homeopathy is based on an experiment gone wrong, the cinchona bark experiment by Hahnemann. We now understand this experiment thoroughly and it has nothing to do with homeopathy. Already this is a red flag.

          (2) The homeopathic knowledgebase is fraught with errors and biases which can already be seen in Hahnemanns writings himself. This is another red flag. If you read the writings of Hahnemann from a scientific point of view you ask yourself how this guy could have been so successful. He was a very bad scientist.

          (3) Homeopathy violates several scientific theories. A scientific theory is a model that is extremely well established so that it is highly unlikely that it will change. That means the prior probability of homeopathy is practically zero. This is a HUGE red flag.

          (4) The low prior probability renders almost all positive studies invalid.
          People adhering to homeopathy do not fully understand basic scientific theories or how science is made.

          Lastly, homeopathy is untruthful, from the very beginning of it’s conception.

          • For an allopathic doctor to study, experience and fully understand homeopathy it would require considerable additional training and a fundamental conscious shift. If that doctor believes that he has reached the pinnacle of his chosen career, he is unlikely to exert the required effort and self development to make that shift and therefore never understand or even try to understand the philosophy that underpins homeopathy. It is easier to sit back and denounce it with the usual insults and possibly be more profitable.

            I fail to see any substance or evidence behind the comments you have made which clearly show how little, if anything, you know about the subject.

          • Colin’s statement makes me so angry:

            “Modern” Medicine (sic) has its place but it is now killing more people than ever …

            Doctors don’t wake up in the morning and decide to “kill” people. Patients get sick and DIE. My mother recently died in the hospital; doctors didn’t “kill” her. And believe me, there was nothing homeopathy could have done for her.

          • Try to refuthe Dr Prasanta Banerjis research results http://www.pbhrfindia.org/

    • @Colin on Thursday 09 February 2017 at 10:24

      Col, you’re an expert on fake. You do it for a living.

      • Actually I earn my living from exactly the opposite, if I didn’t my insurer clients would not tolerate my services as they expect me to uncover the truth and detect fraud.

        • please answer my question: what has fake news got to do with my post?

        • @Colin on Thursday 09 February 2017 at 11:21

          “Actually I earn my living from exactly the opposite, if I didn’t my insurer clients would not tolerate my services as they expect me to uncover the truth and detect fraud.”

          Oh, that’s right, you are an insurance adjuster. How do you reconcile detecting fraud when doing that, while defrauding people with your sugar water?

    • Colin- even by your low standards, that is an extraordinarily lame comment. All you’ve done there is to hitch your three-wheeled creaky wagon to the nearest fashionable horse.
      But- par for the course- you’ll ignore any requests to provide evidence of which parts of the report are ‘fake’. You do it all the time with your other nutty claims. I still nave the occasional chuckle- I did the other day-at your offer to act as impartial referee in any test of homeopathy versus Science. If your offer is ever taken up, I promise I shall enter Miss Great Britain. Ten quid says I have the better chance.

      • You very quickly resort to insulting comments when you are lost for words. By the way, I recall recent negative comments on this blog about the term “wellness” so why do you use the term?

        • no, you are insulting!

        • Colin- I use the term ‘wellness’ because it’s meaningless jargon, because it irritates homeopaths, and because I’m immature.
          Would you please do us all a favour now, and explain why anyone who posts an opinion contrary to yours may not be trustworthy because they may have an ulterior motive and indeed be in the pay of dark forces? It’s certainly something I have been accused of. What are these ulterior motives? Who’s paying us? Where’s your evidence? Is it in the same place you keep your homeo patchy evidence? As to your plea that the patient is the priority here, and that scientists and homeopaths should forget their differences and march arm in arm wtowards a sunny future…. all I can say is that this is the same kind of duplicitous garbage one hears from Trump supporters.

          • it seems that you and yours also get offended if “we” don’t agree with what you say. As for Trump, please be assured that I am definitely not a supporter, I believe that problem solving is best achieved by thinking in triangles and not oppositions which take us nowhere and causes divisions in society which is rife in the western world today.

          • Colin!What a deeply odd fish you are, to be sure!
            Let me hasten to assure you that I and ‘mine’ are not offended by the very fact that people disagree with us, but rather by the rather insubstantial nature of the disagreement, and the lack of evidence to support it. A fairly good example would be your advocacy of the ‘film’ ‘The Truth About Cancer’, essentially a lying, pernicious piece of work featuring the ghastly opinions of a ragbag of fruitcakes and proven fraudsters and charlatans, which you adduced into the conversation a while back as something of an argument clincher but which you then admitted that even you hadn’t seen.
            As to your Trump point, I believe that we’re you to study the relevant post for the evidence- a bewildering word for you- it may become apparent that I did not accuse you of supporting him. The main reason for this being that I don’t have the vaguest idea if you do. I used him and his supporters as what we refer to as an ‘example’.
            And as to your triangles- there are I’ m afraid times when extremism and weird silliness have to be confronted head on, and bugger the geometry.
            Ŷ

  • “Enter the Victorian Health Complaints Commission: a brand new watchdog unveiled last week to reign in, as Premier Daniel Andrews called them, “dodgy health providers”. The idea is that “health service providers” in Victoria, whether officially registered or not, will have to follow a general code of conduct.”

    I live here and nothing Danny Andrews does is, either, for an ulterior motive (possibly paying back his union backers for favours), and/or some symbolic gesture for PR purposes or a face save that is, effectively, useless.

    This sounds like all the rest.

  • “Homeopaths get more than a little irritated by what they see as my ‘obsession’ with their beloved therapy.”

    Below is what the Australian Homeopathic Association had to say about you, in their ‘open response letter’ send to the Chair of the NHMRC homeopathy committee (you might have seen this before).

    “The influence of the anti-Complementary Medicine (CM) pressure group, Sense About Science (SAS), and
    of the highly motivated anti-homoeopathy campaigners, Dr Ben Goldacre and Professor Edzard Ernst,
    prevailed at the expense of authentic scientific inquiry.”

    Here is the full letter: http://www.homeopathyoz.org/images/news/Open_response_letter_by_AHA_to_NHMRC.pdf

    • yes, that why we call the homeopath ‘the humourist amongst the healthcare fraternity’!

      • Ernst

        ” The influence of the anti-Complementary Medicine (CM) pressure group, Sense About Science (SAS), and of the highly motivated anti-homoeopathy campaigners, Dr Ben Goldacre and Professor Edzard Ernst, prevailed at the expense of authentic scientific inquiry. It is to be noted that one third of the initial funding of the lobby group
        Sense About Science was provided by pharmaceutical company interests, as acknowledged on the SAS web-site at that time.”

        Is this the science that you write about? You should write about PR and finance also.

        • are you quite normal?
          when did I write about the science of SAS?

          • As far as homeopathy advocates go, he seems perfectly normal.
            Their normal is different from normal normal. 🙂

          • Hmm, Colin. Interesting link, that “little light reading”. Seems to be a definite case of fake news!

            You’d imagine that a diatribe claiming that SAS took “more than £20,000” from Coca Cola and “then questioned research that was critical of sugary drinks” just might provide a link to the pages on the SAS website where readers can see for themselves the rotten, untrue things the SAS wretches wrote in support of sugary drinks in general and Coca-Cola in particular. But a search on the SAS site for terms such as ‘coca’ and ‘cola’ and even ‘diabetes’ produces tiddly squat.

            I searched for ‘sugar’ on the SAS website, but that led only to a news item about Susan Jebb winning the 2015 John Maddox prize for her work on public understanding of nutrition. Work that she summarizes as follows: “Conclusion: Increased SSB [sugar-sweetened beverage] intake may be an important predictor of cardiometabolic risk in young people, independent of weight status.” My goodness! You can certainly see the influence of Coca Cola money behind that blatant denial of the adverse effects of sugar-sweetened beverages.

            Your link does cross-link to an article in The Times that seems to tell the same story of Coca-Cola money being used to pervert Sense About Science on the sugary drinks issue, but I can’t read the Times story because it’s hidden behind a pay wall. I won’t spend a penny on Murdoch newspapers: they’re too full of fake news.

            By the way, Colin, your comments often reveal your problems with thought, but none more so than you query to Barrie Lee Thorpe about why he uses ‘Wellness’ in his name when the ‘wellness’ concept has had a battering on this blog. There’s a hint in the way Barrie puts the word in quotes. See if you can figure that one out for yourself.

    • The issue, passion, concerns expressed on this blog arise because homeopathy is a faith (about ‘vital forces’), its exponents are acolytes and part of a faith community (as scientologists are) and not a ‘health profession’ as such – and certainly not ‘medicine’ (which requires diagnosis and treatment of illness, disease, ailments).

      Conflation of faith with scientific based modern medicine is unhelpful (Mark Crislip’s cow pie/apple pie analogy).

  • http://theavh.org/

    This is the professional association of veterinary homeopaths. Any advice on how to interact when confronting members of this organization with the non-reality of their chosen treatment modality?

    • If a vet is considering homeopathy for a serious condition, I would ask them if they would consider the same treatment for a loved one. For a trivial condition I would give the person a quizzical look and a Gallic shrug, hoping they would get my drift.

  • “Meanwhile homeopaths advertise their ability to treat everything from autism to haemorrhoids with near impunity.”

    Australia does have consumer protection laws that cover advertising. The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) is the regulator but the Therapeutic Goods Agency (TCA) regulates advertising of medicines.

  • I am almost impressed by the ability of the alternative fake health care community to convince themselves and their prey that their magic is real. Legitimate magicians at least sell their magic shows for what they are, but these health promoting con artists are much more deceptive and dishonest. This was an honest and accurate portrayal by a fellow family physician who appears to care about patients and is trying to protect them from the vultures and those that support them.

  • There is a growing body of evidence for homeopathy:
    http://www.britishhomeopathic.org/evidence/the-evidence-for-homeopathy/

    It would be more interesting if the body of evidence was actually carefully read and commented on. The spurious, paranoid, and insulting comments on this blog about medical sciences is ridiculous.

    Regarding the law, at this point in time anyone can practice homeopathy in the UK whether they have have received formal training or not. That homeopaths may prefer to go ‘underground’ means being less publicly engaged with skeptics such those in this blog.

    The hysteria about homeopathy is pitiful. There are many beautiful and exotic places where one can enjoy the beauty of the earth and experience its awesome energy. Try it.

    So long friends.

    • The spurious, paranoid, and insulting comments on this blog about medical sciences is ridiculous.:

      I absolutely agree. I do wish the touts and apologists for pseudomedical pseudosciences like homeopathy would stop doing this.

      There is a growing body of evidence for homeopathy:

      Your link points to the HRI website (https://www.hri-research.org/resources/homeopathy-the-debate/essentialevidence/clinical-trials-overview/#), which touts five out of six meta-analyses as being positive. Let’s look at the conclusions of those five so-called “positive” meta-analyses:

      Kleijnen et al. 1991: ‘… not sufficient to draw definitive conclusions because most trials are of low methodological quality and because of the unknown role of publication bias’

      Linde et al. 1997: ‘…we found insufficient evidence from these studies that homeopathy is clearly efficacious for any single clinical condition.’

      Linde et al. 1999: ‘We conclude that in the study set investigated, there was clear evidence that studies with better methodological quality tended to yield less positive results.’

      Cucherat et al. 2000: ‘… the strength of this evidence is low because of the low methodological quality of the trials. Studies of high methodological quality were more likely to be negative than the lower quality studies…’

      Mathie et al. 2014: ‘The low or unclear overall quality of the evidence prompts caution in interpreting the findings.’

      NB: these are the ones of which the HRI stated: “five were positive”. I wonder how negative something had to be to be relegated to the quack-invented “inconclusive” category (which, of course, honest people call by its correct name: “negative” )

      • ‘Up to the end of 2014, a total of 104 papers reporting good-quality placebo-controlled RCTs in homeopathy (on 61 different medical conditions) have been published in peer-reviewed journals. 41% of these RCTs have reported a balance of positive evidence, 5% a balance of negative evidence, and 54% have not been conclusively positive or negative. For full details of all these RCTs and more in-depth information on the research in general, visit the research section of the Faculty of Homeopathy’s website. Also, see 2-page evidence summary with full references.’

        http://www.britishhomeopathic.org/evidence/the-evidence-for-homeopathy/

        This organisation is stating its case and you based your comment on your SELECTION of studies.

        FYI I believe that the probability of achieving a positive relationship between a homeopathic remedy and a specific illness is very low, so I think that these studies are a waste of time and money.

        I believe that individual treatment in cases without organic disease may respond positively to homeopathy. I don’t believe in putting people off seeing their medical practitioner, in fact most homeopaths will work in liaison with the patient’s to ensure that they see their about their complaint..

        The generalizations in some comments about homeopathy and homeopaths are ‘ridiculous’.

        • GREG: thanks for the link which most of us knew. it is a masterpiece of misinformation!!! so much so that my next post will be entirely dedicated to it.
          so, well-done and thanks again!

        • you based your comment on your SELECTION of studies

          Perhaps you could hone your reading and comprehension skills? It is not my selection, it is the Homeopathy Research Institute’s selection

          most homeopaths will work in liaison with the patient’s to ensure that they see their about their complaint..

          Again,this time in intelligible English, please.

    • Rest assured, the body of evidence has been carefully read.

      The evidence confirms what would be expected for using purified water to treat medical conditions.

      So long friend.

    • @ Greg
      Warning: For reasons I explain below, this comment is incensed. I considered redacting it to lessen its resentful tone but instead added these words and an explanation below of my current wrathful sentiment.

      There is a growing body of evidence for homeopathy

      Only within the cognitively impaired cocoon of the homeopathic congregation. Everywhere else the “body of evidence” is interpreted as fake science and confabulations around a 2 century old fairy tale involving shaken water and sugar pills. Trying to confabulate about a possible mode of action not yet detetable by modern science is simply stupid.

      Several governmental bodies in different parts of the world have lately put a lot of money and manpower into giving homeopathy a ‘fair chance’, in co-operation with homeopaths. The consensus is clear, homeopathy is nonsense, as pure as the shaken water supposed to remember the Berlin wall, a leaf of a plant, a housefly or the liver and heart of a duck. Only idiots or mentally impaired would be expected to believe in such drivel, yet it pervades the minds of seemingly sensible people.
      If you find such comments as the one I am writing now, spurious, paranoid and insulting, then that is your problem, not ours who are not caught up in a cult that cannot accept defeat against knowledge and reason.

      We have been through this discussion ‘ad nauseam’ before – here on this blog and elsewhere.
      I and many of us have actually read and studied much of the material presented as “body of evidence” under the link you give and we are actually long since sick and tired of ‘besserwissers’ like you who come here, full of indignant grandeur, dragging along the same old tales and confabulations as we have previously tried to discuss courteously with different members of the homeopathic congregation. If you find us irritated and increasingly discourteous, this is why.
      You are just one in a long row of homeopath-apologists, expecting us to reply courteously and start all over again on a hopeless discussion with someone who on top of all else is hiding under a pseudonym… forget it!

      I have full respect for the person behind the pseudonym “Greg” but not for his or her beliefs and buffoonery regarding homeopathy, which can demonstrably be harmful and even deadly

      — No, don’t you dare try to start a discussion of whether homeopathy can be deadly. The reason I am short on temper regarding homeopathy these days is that I just heard the story of a child in my part of this world, who was refused a life saving but very safe and simple operation by its parents for a deadly birth defect. Instead they relied on a homeopath. When the child was in serious condition in ICU, irreparably damaged by its deadly condition the idiot parents continued to refuse surgery and blamed its condition on the lack of experience by the homeopath!!!

      Now, do you understand why I am upset, indignant, insulting and angry at your inane comment “Greg”?!

      • Such a story of a death caused by a homeopath would have been reported widely on the news in Iceland. However, go to http://www.icenews.is and you will see that there are no results under a search for ‘homeopath’ or ‘homeopathy’. So no death by homeopathy.
        Search under ‘herbs’ and a dozen or so results come up so the search facility works.
        Nice try Björn but fake news unless you can provide some evidence.
        Link please.

        • @ímyndunarafl (=Icelandic word for ‘fantasy’ 😀 )

          Whoever you are, your smartass comment missed the target completely 😀

          “My part of the world” is larger than our little Island. This story is not out yet, the health care system in civilised countries is not a news agency. No link yet. We’ll see if this becoes a matter of judiciary consequences. someone will have to press charges first.

          • Ok. No evidence at all then.

          • @ímyndunarafl on Saturday 11 February 2017 at 08:37

            Ok. No evidence at all then.

            Duh…!
            I was telling a story to explain why I am particularly upset at the imbecile practice of homeopathy these days, not presenting evidence. Here is a similar story that is already out in the news.
            There are more, just ask Google what is the harm in homeopathy.

            There is plenty of evidence and reason for the harmful consequences of homeopathy and other make-believe medicine.
            Even if homeopathic remedies are most often harmless by default (they should contain nothing important, and when they do, it can be harmful as in the recent case of poisonous “teething remedies”) the practice and promotion of quackery leads to tragedies like the one I told about (further details of which cannot be revealed yet).

            If you had followed this blog for a while the discussion about harmful homeopathy would have been familiar to you. It seems you are new to this blog so you can start by having a look at this to learn what homeopathy is not:
            https://nccih.nih.gov/health/homeopathy
            NCCIH is an institution in america that has been desperately spending big money on trying to find CAM that works. It is not for lack of trying but they simply find nothing in homeopathy.

            To understand why homeopaths who attempting to do science fool themselves into thinking that they are finding something, I believe no one explains that better than Ben Goldacre here.

            Then, to start your understanding of why people pretending to play doctor with water and sugar pills on occasion cause harm to others (and sometimes themselves), you can start by having a look at this article.

            I also recommend professor Ernst’s latest book on the subject.

      • Björn Geir

        “Trying to confabulate about a possible mode of action not yet detectable by modern science is simply stupid.”
        Modern science is yet looking for many answers: for example: how do you manager to retain vacuum between your 2 ears?

        “Several governmental bodies in different parts of the world have lately put a lot of money and manpower into giving homeopathy a ‘fair chance’, in co-operation with homeopaths.”
        The Indian government funds many alternative medical practices along with allopathy. This is because most decision makers (friends and family) have at one time on another been adversely effected by allopathic treatment and would not like to live another horror story. Such adverse effects were resolved with Ayurveda, Homeopathy etc.and therefore the apex body AYUSH is government funded. Then off course is the arbitrary pricing of drugs, (generics cost less than 1/100 of the branded and Indian companies have become manufacturers and suppliers for the world). Additionally studies from Harvard/John Hopkins make such decision making easy: Dr Lucine Leape (Error in medicine 1994, 94000 deaths) Dr. Sratfield, (Is US health really the best 2000, 225,000 deaths) and Martin Makary, MD, MPH 2013, 251,454).
        “A new study published in the BMJ on Wednesday said that if medical error were a disease, it would be the third largest killer in the US.
        There hasn’t been an equivalent study for India, but a Harvard University study in 2013 estimated that 5.2 million injuries occur across India each year (out of the 43 million globally) due to medical errors and adverse events.”
        http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Medical-errors-third-largest-killer-in-US-Study/articleshow/52115701.cms

        And off course:
        http://ethics.harvard.edu/blog/new-prescription-drugs-major-health-risk-few-offsetting-advantages

        “If you find such comments …. spurious, paranoid and insulting, then that is your problem, not ours who are not caught up in a cult that cannot accept defeat against knowledge and reason.”
        Really. I expect nothing enlightened from you. Vacuum in place of gray matter has a lasting effect. I also see tunnel vision syndrome: ability to see one death of child out of hundreds of thousands of children dying of allopathic treatment.
        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3444406/Girl-10-dies-rare-brain-cancer-Florida-family-s-child-die-disease-just-six-years.html
        http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa-cause-of-death-by-age-and-gender (0-14 years for USA)
        or 25900 every year (http://www.childsafetyeurope.org/publications/info/child-safety-report-cards-europe-summary-2012.pdf).

        “Now, do you understand why I am upset, indignant, insulting and angry at your inane comment..”
        It is rather easy to see through your irrational comment. $ (or is it €) helps in overlooking many aspects of truth and generating comments/reports/prescriptions as required. You and Ernst are not alone.
        https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/13/well/eat/how-the-sugar-industry-shifted-blame-to-fat.html
        http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/doctors-paid-39000-a-year-by-the-drug-companies-whose-medicine-they-prescribe/news-story/ae5bcb5717e79556fc3a402376aab3f8
        http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/03/17/470679452/drug-company-payments-mirror-doctors-brand-name-prescribing
        http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2016/06/lab_olympus_cases_show_doctors_not_immune_to_corru.html
        http://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-healthcare-profiteering-idUSKBN0LS2QP20150224

        No need to act indignant, upset or ashamed of this practice. Undertakers have to earn a living also.

        “The number of funerals we have performed has fallen drastically,” said Hananya Shahor, the veteran director of Jerusalem’s Kehilat Yerushalayim burial society. “This month, there were only 93 funerals compared with 153 in May 1999, 133 in the same month in 1998, and 139 in May 1997,” he said. The society handles 55% of all deaths in the Jerusalem metropolitan area. Last April, there were only 130 deaths compared with 150 or more in previous Aprils. “I can’t explain why,” said Mr Shahor.

        Meir Adler, manager of the Shamgar Funeral Parlour, which buries most other residents of Jerusalem, declared with much more certainty: “There definitely is a connection between the doctors’ sanctions and fewer deaths. We saw the same thing in 1983 [when the Israel Medical Association applied sanctions for four and a half months].”

        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1127364/
        Doctors strike work and ruin undertaker business.

        • @Iqbal

          I’m really getting fed up with people who post links in their comments that have nothing to do with their comment or the thread topic, and even sometimes prove the opposite of what they’re saying.

          I selected one paragraph at random from your rant (you’ve said it all before — ‘allopathics’ do nothing but cost lives while homeopathy is a wonderful, beneficial cure-all that everyone should adopt): the one where you say, “Really. I expect nothing enlightened from you. Vacuum in place of gray matter has a lasting effect. I also see tunnel vision syndrome: ability to see one death of child out of hundreds of thousands of children dying of allopathic treatment.” You provide three links.

          The first is to a story in the Daily Mail (a publication not normally to be recommended as a reliable source). It relates the tale of a family where three of their five children have died from a rare, genetically linked, fatal disease. What the heck does that have to do with medical errors, drug side effects or anything to do with your point?!

          The second link is to a table listing the top 50 causes of death in the USA, ranked by age and sex. Medical errors and drug side effects are not even listed in the chart! For children (ages 1–14) the top six causes of death are listed as ‘congenital abnormalities’, ‘low birth weight’, ‘other injuries’, ‘birth trauma’, ‘road traffic accidents’ and (this being the USA) ‘homicide’. How in the name of the Holy Cow of Hyderabad can anyone in their right mind provide a link to that table imagining the data to support a contention of “hundreds of thousands of children dying of allopathic treatment”?!

          Your third link is to a (long and detailed) article about the European child safety report card scheme. Yet again, there is nothing, nada, zip or zilch about deaths or drug side-effects caused by medicine or medical error. What am I to make of a person who provides that link as if it supports their case? Do I reasonably assume the person has a good intellect? A lively mind and an awareness of appropriate web links? A convincing case to make? A strong ability to provide a rational argument? Or a total ****ing idiot?

          I had long since given up reading your posts, Iqbal: sheer fluke led me into the error of reading this one. I shan’t make the same mistake again.

          • Frank Odds
            “I selected one paragraph at random…”

            When there are 5 paragraphs, you look at all or do a random selection? Ernst would not approve. Did you consult with him before writing this? All paragraphs carry equal heaps of garbage from your allopathic medical system.

            “The first is to a story in the Daily Mail (a publication not normally to be recommended as a reliable source).”

            “NOT normally recommended” because the published facts stink? Take your choice below:
            http://fox6now.com/2016/02/11/family-buries-third-child-lost-to-rare-form-of-brain-cancer-i-am-sick-of-it / http://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/news/a36950/mading-family-lynch-syndrome/
            http://rightwingnews.com/top-news/this-family-has-lost-three-of-their-five-children-in-just-six-years-the-reason-heartbreaking/
            http://www.newstimes.com/local/article/Bethel-High-graduate-loses-battle-to-rare-6049370.php
            https://www.braintumourresearch.org/in-our-hearts
            http://www.azfamily.com/story/34172004/7-year-old-phoenix-boy-loses-fight-with-rare-brain-cancer
            https://thewest.com.au/news/australia/rare-syndrome-ravages-family-ng-ya-104187

            There is additional information on children dying of cancer. The funny thing is ALL deaths are being termed to be from “Rare Cancer”. Do you have some idea if the statement was made before or after death? And how do doctors define “RARE”? If the patient does not get well with routine chemotherapy, it is RARE cancer. Did the doctors try new “RARE” treatment or standard chemotherapy? Do you realize the extent of misinformation? No different from Björn Geir the certified liar.

            “You refer to the Tamara Lovett case from 2013 in Canada. Your link shows a reference to ‘homeopathy herbal’. If you actually knew this case you would know from numerous sources that Dandelion tea and Oregano Oil was stated in court as used by the parents.” In which homeopathic materia medica did he find these under homeopathic remedies.

            And where is cancer coming from?
            “A 2009 study indicated that half of all lab scientists fail to check for the presence of Mycoplasma in their cell cultures, which is problematic, as this contamination can disrupt patterns of human gene expression.”
            http://www.sgs.com/en/news/2015/12/detection-of-mycoplasma-in-biopharmaceuticals-vaccines-and-gene-cell-therapies (you can Google antibiotics and cancer to get interesting insight).

            And not only cancer:
            “Yet recently, just within the past few decades, amid all of these medical advances, something has gone terribly wrong. In many different ways we appear to be getting sicker. You can see the headlines every day. We are suffering from a mysterious array of what I call “modern plagues”: obesity, childhood diabetes, asthma, hay fever, food allergies, esophageal reflux and cancer, celiac disease, Crohn’s disease, ulcerative colitis, autism, eczema. In all likelihood you or someone in your family or someone you know is afflicted. Unlike most lethal plagues of the past that struck relatively fast and hard, these are chronic conditions that diminish and degrade their victims’ quality of life for decades.”
            “The reasons for this disaster are all around you, including overuse of antibiotics in humans and animals, Cesarian sections, and the widespread use of sanitizers and antiseptics, to name just a few. While antibiotic resistance is a huge problem—old killers like tuberculosis are increasingly resistant and making a comeback—there now seem to be separate ones, affecting people with such scourges as Clostridium difficile (C. diff), bacteria of the digestive tract resistant to multiple antibiotics, a potential danger in the hospital, and a spreading pathogen, methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA), which can be acquired anywhere. The selective pressure of antibiotic use is clearly increasing their presence. http://martinblaser.com/excerpt.html

            And as homeopaths say, Cancer is a miasm: you pass it on to your children.

            “The second link is to a table listing the top 50 causes of death in the USA, ranked by age and sex. Medical errors and drug side effects are not even listed in the chart! For children (ages 1–14) the top six causes of death are listed as ‘congenital abnormalities’, ‘low birth weight’, ‘other injuries’, ‘birth trauma’, ‘road traffic accidents’ and (this being the USA) ‘homicide’…. “hundreds of thousands of children dying of allopathic treatment”?
            You have no clue about medicine. Try some simple maths: Addition & subtraction.
            Take out exceptions (accidents….homicide etc) and do the calculation. What is the figure? And why is congenital abnormalities, low birth weight etc not caused by drug effects? You want me to present this information to you also?

            “Your third link is to a (long and detailed) article about the European child safety report card scheme. Yet again, there is nothing, nada, zip or zilch about deaths or drug side-effects caused by medicine or medical error.”

            “Of the 35,000+ children and adolescents under age 20 years who die each year in the EU, about 24% or roughly 9,100 deaths are due to injuries.” And the balance 76% ???????

            What about NYT?
            “A study in the journal Pediatrics in April found that problems due to medications occurred in 11 percent of children who were in the hospital, and that 22 percent of them were preventable.
            Medical mistakes are a greater threat to kids than adults because they are physically smaller and their organs are still developing, which means even a small mistake in a medication dose can have profound effects. Children also are less able to communicate what they are feeling, making it more difficult to identify a problem when it occurs. Doses of pediatric medications also often must be calculated based on height and weight, increasing the risk for error.”
            https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/15/children-and-medical-mistakes/

            Is CBS news OK?
            http://www.cbsnews.com/news/babys-death-prompts-war-against-hospital-errors/ And FOX news?
            http://kdvr.com/2015/05/19/mother-whose-daughter-died-from-medical-mistakes-now-works-to-prevent-them/
            https://emilyjerryfoundation.org/emilys-story/ CTV News?
            http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/mom-of-misdiagnosed-toddler-relives-medical-errors-that-led-to-son-s-death-1.1949727
            How many children did you count in place of one?

            “I had long since given up reading your posts,”
            You should stick to this thought. And if you do read, avoid replying. Keep your mouth shut and let all believe you to be a fool, than to open it and remove all doubts.

            “..sheer fluke led me into the error of reading this one. I shan’t make the same mistake again.”
            An expensive error?

  • You refer to the Tamara Lovett case from 2013 in Canada. Your link shows a reference to ‘homeopathy herbal’. If you actually knew this case you would know from numerous sources that Dandelion tea and Oregano Oil was stated in court as used by the parents.The Duh is on you. You are clearly living in a fantasy world.

  • :D. Since you are so brilliantly clever to know the difference between dandelion tea and shaken water, perhaps you want to tell us what properly potentised potions poor Mrs Lowett should have used to save her child? Didn’t he suffer from streptococcal sepsis, my memory on this is vague. You seem to be familiar with the case. What should she have used? Calendula 30 C perhaps? Or Hekla Lava remedy? That’s an Icelandic speciality… on the other hand that’s mainly useful for tumours of the bones.

  • I have not suggested that any homeopathic remedies should have been used in this case. I have simply pointed out that you are giving out information with no evidence.. It is always best to do some research before posting.

    • Oh my! And your own research reveals what? What information should I have “given out”?

      “Ímyndunarafl”, the pseudonym of our new friend here is Icelandic for “fantasy”. Perhaps a victim of ‘Edzard’s law’ from my own outspokenness in my mother’s language? Doesn’t seem to be the sharpest knife in the drawer – you never know.
      We have our share of water shakers over there on our little Island inhabited by little more than 300 thousand people. Like these two masters of make believe medicine who suggest six different water shakes for “strep throat” and call it ” holistic health”. We’ve heard that somewhere before, haven’t we? 🙂

      Now, dear “Ímyndunarafl”. Please tell us what you think is wrong in our argumentation against promoting shaken water for potentially very serious infections? We doctors use antibiotics, with great success and I have actually treared quite a number of streptococcal infections succesfully. But not with aconitum 30C, or Hepar Sulph 30C, or Belladonna… or any other shaken water infused sugar pills. Maybe I should have? Your replies, based on extensive research I hope, may perhaps help change our mind about the futility and potential harm in confusing homeopathy with health care?

  • This is not my blog and you can post anything you like as far as I am concerned. So if you want to give your opinion on antibiotics for Strep infections then fine. If you want to give your opinion on Aconite 30c etc being sugar pills then again fine. However, you posted an unsubstantiated anecdote and some misinformation and I just pointed it out.

  • Can you read?
    I previously said:
    ‘I have simply pointed out that you are giving out information with no evidence.’

    That was my point. Duh!

    • I am not aware that I claimed to be presenting ‘evidence’?

      • You have a homeopathic college starting in Reykjavik this year so you will soon no doubt hear of many more anecdotes a bit closer to home. You can report anything negative and ignore anything positive that you hear.

        • I’m sure I’not the only one who looks forward to ignoring upcoming anecdotes from our Reykjavik correspondent.
          I just wonder if they”ll have any more substance, so to speak, than the anecdotes about the existence of fairies that I saw being discussed by two car park attendants on TV some years back- very much like an unwitting Pete and Dud sketch- wherein we were told that fairies can occasionally beyond the corner of ones eye, but tend to disappear as soon as you turn your head for further study.. I can see how this would pose somewhat insuperable problems for all but the most nimble and determined of researcher, possibly explaining the lack of any great body of evidence.

        • You have a homeopathic college starting in Reykjavik this year so you will soon no doubt hear of many more anecdotes a bit closer to home.

          I have?? I certainly have nothing to do with any college of homeopathy 😉
          Icelandic anecdotes there are plenty of. Icelanders are very prone to think that if they do not understand something it must be both magical and true. Those like me who have tried to explain nonsense in public are often viciously attacked and accused of chicanery and bullying. That is why I generally leave the local homeopaths in peace even if I can tell lots of stories of them, both funny and sad. I have even let it be when I see them giving bad and harmful advice because very few respect them and they are mostly nice ladies who wish well and want to heal like the famous old “grass-doctors” who are remembered as veritable miracle makers of whom there are endless stories. However “Homeopath” is generally used as a derisive term in Iceland. Very few actually do not know the difference between a water shaker and a herb-cutter or a Craniosacral-petter. Most use the term “homeopath” to denote any kind of healer.

          I am so glad you want to invite me. You can send me a mail to the hospital or contact me on LinkedIn for example. I am also in the telephone catalogue of course. I would love to lecture there on the physics of dilution and chemistry of water. I could also teach the basics of research, study design and statistics. I can in easy layman’s terms get anyone to understand why anecdotes are not evidence and why you need properly performed studies to get past fantasy and wishful thinking. Seeing as graduated homeopaths are uneducable in sciences, it is very good for their to introduce them early in the schooling, before their minds get too mixed up and faith and cognitive dissonance gets in the way.

          But why on earth are you telling me I have to “ignore anything positive” that I hear??

          You can report anything negative and ignore anything positive that you hear.

          I will certainly do nothing of the sort!
          Little do you know me if you think you can stop me from seeking facts and progress.
          We doctors need all good resources we can get. We are obliged to help the sick and suffering better, so if I find anything positive, I refuse to ignore it. On the contrary I will tell everyone and even make use of it in helping my patients if it is at all credible and likely to work where I need it.

        • Barrie,

          Speak for yourself – I find Bjorn’s anecdotes quite illuminating.

          • Oh sure!
            I can tell you anecdotes, plenty of them supplied by Icelandic homeopaths to support their faith.
            Like the one from the elderly lady who had been treated long time ago with radioactive iodine to successfully suppress her overactive thyroid (Toxic goitre). As is usual, she had to take supplementary thyroid hormone afterwards. When she started to experience thyrotoxic symptoms again years later, she was advised by a homeopath to stop the thyroid hormone supplement ad take remedies. Of course her symptoms disappeared and this was such an epiphany for the old lady she started studying homeopathy.
            If she had gone to the real doctor he could have explained that what was left of functioning thyroid had increased its production so the extra thyroid hormone supplement was no longer needed. And the homeopath and remedies did nothing but decrease her monetary assets.
            That is what I call an enlightening anecdote about homeopathy.
            (If you still don’t get it “jm” just say so, I’ll explain again in pre-school terms)

          • I think you’ll find you misundrstood me. Probably my fault..

  • Arsch… I missed an extra “not” up there in my latest opus. No price for finding it.
    I have slight writing blindness (is that a thing?) so I really would need a ten minute window (instead of five) to edit my prose 😀

  • I look forward to all those ‘nice ladies’ in Iceland establishing homeopathy in Iceland. Maybe you should enrol on the new homeopathy course though before teaching at the college in Reykjavik. Soon Iceland will be famous for Homeopathy as well as for many other things including football and your good self.

  • …all those ‘nice ladies’ in Iceland establishing homeopathy in Iceland

    They already did, and it’s ignored by most normal people. Maybe that’s why you sound so hopeful:

    Soon Iceland will be famous for Homeopathy

    Interesting… tell more. What will be the breakthrough?

    • I hope it’s not these idiots who were thrown out from Regents Uni in London for promoting “Vaxxed”, who found no better alternative than set up camp in Reykjavik 😀
      One of the dangers of homeopathy are the fools who think they can “vaccinate” with shaken water

  • Ah… I found something interesting. I had a vague memory of seeing an advertisement for some homeopathy college in London setting up a subsidiary in Reykjavik so I asked uncle Google.
    And lo and behold he did not disappoint!
    Guðrún and Tinna, two well known water shakers in Reykjavik are setting up spring camp with something called “Southern college of homeopathy”

    The title is rather intriguing:

    “Elements” – How to use the power of nature to advance the alchemy of homeo-

    Alchemy?!?!

    Take a load of this enticing description:

    Improve your practice with new ideas and revisiting old philosophies.
    We have some wonderful lecturers sharing their knowlege with us . Jo Ketteman – Air : seeing the wood from the trees
    Lorraine Grayston -The Matridonal Journey
    from source through our earth mother and into Mother Earth
    Angie Jackson – Essences for the five elements
    The Fire Inside
    I will be discussing the knowledge and experiences, myths and truths that have helped my patients ‘fire themselves up’ – ignitions that I have witnessed since I opened my London clinic in 1985.

    Sounds like a regression back to the middle ages, or even further?

    Wonder if this is any indication of what comprises the novelty our mystical “Fantasy” friend promises will soon make Iceland famous for homeopathy?
    It will be interesting to hear what medieval medicine and the five (some confusion about numbers here?) element philosophy of prescientific times?
    Anyone care to remember what the child mortality rates and life expectancy were back then?
    These links only show the development from 1800 onwards, which, by the way coincide with development of medical science (not with use of homeopathy)
    The life expectancy before that was even poorer.
    History is interesting, but one does not expect to find medical advances in antiquated ideas? I wish I could listen in on some of the lectures. I promise to keep quiet and be nice 😀

    • I managed to find out about the colleges in Iceland by googling ‘homeopathy college Iceland.’ It was just pure inspiration I can only put down to a delayed secondary reaction from one dose of Arnica 200c I took on January 2nd for shock induced from reading on an Edzard blog post-
      ‘I will try harder to show respect, politeness and understanding.’

      I think that not only is there a Southern College but also maybe a Midlands College present or forthcoming on Iceland. Word should spread quickly and before you know it you will be hearing lots of anecdotes.
      So what do you do Björn? Ignore it or give it a platform?

  • There would of course be zillions times more Arnica in the tap water than in my Arnica 200c.
    Everyone into homeopathy knows that.
    It is your problem not mine.
    Please get on the radio/TV in Iceland and give this college a platform.

  • It is your problem not mine.

    Really?

    Please get on the radio/TV in Iceland and give this college a platform.

    Why should I? I am sure the arrangers are fully capable and eager to promote their fantastic event(s) on their own. The risk is they will be laughed at and scorned, like the man with the pendulum 🙂

  • Hopefully the homeopaths will be showing VAXXED in Iceland to show evidence of fraud in medical research. They wont get laughed and scorned when many of the 300,000 see the last half hour of VAXXED. This is not about the principles of vaccination and vaccines which I have no problem with. It is about fraudulant research.

    • Indeed. The deception and fraud of Wakefield and the immense harm caused to the children he used in his ‘research’ and to many more around the world and his punishment of being struck off as a doctor should be a salutatory lesson to any other doctor thinking of engaging in fraudulent research.

      • Homeopathy is coming to Iceland 29th-30th April for a conference courtesy UK Southern College of Homeopathy. Then the college starts. Opportunity for Björn.Geir to become educated.

        • I hope they invite me to give a lecture.

          • I think they should invite ME to give a lecture. I wouldn’t have the vaguest clue what I were talking about, and would have to wing it somewhat.
            Er…. hold on…..

        • What do you believe Dr Geir needs to be educated on regarding homeopathy?

          But please tell us if the conference will include any sessions on evidence?

        • Wait. The conference is titled: ” Elements” -How to use the power of nature to advance the alchemy of homeo…

          Alchemy…

          DESCRIPTION
          Improve your practice with new ideas and revisiting old philosophies.
          We have some wonderful lecturers sharing their knowlege with us . Jo Ketteman – Air : seeing the wood from the trees
          Lorraine Grayston -The Matridonal Journey
          from source through our earth mother and into Mother Earth
          Angie Jackson – Essences for the five elements
          The Fire Inside
          I will be discussing the knowledge and experiences, myths and truths that have helped my patients ‘fire themselves up’ – ignitions that I have witnessed since I opened my London clinic in 1985.
          Simon Taffler PCH, RSHom, FSHomwe will also have Karin Mont, Simon Taffler, Gudrun Tinna Thorlacius and Gudny Osk Didriksdottir.
          This 2 day conference will give you a greater understanding of remedies and essences and how to use them in practice.

          No, nothing about evidence.

        • I like to take the mickey out of Wakefield supporters and their raving mad support for his lies and his duplicitous book on Amazon. This will surprise few. What may possibly surprise some is the frothing anger and vitriol expressed by these people.Whether they’re worse than Trump supporters-since, after all, children have been, and are being, harmed, by these freligious fanatics, on no basis whatsoever- I shall leave to others to decide.In it’s way it’s as mad and possibly dangerous as the crazed anti-abortion movement, based as it is on the same kind wild-eyed religious zealotry. Or maybe I’m just one of the ‘pity people’ someone spoke of a little while ago, and have yet to experience these miracles for myself.

        • You forgot the link:

          https://www.facebook.com/events/182167142263791

          We already had some good laughs on this.
          Homeopathic alchemy… Oh my! They seem to be regressing into pre-Hahnemann medieval magic 🙂

          I am honored to be invited thank you, but I will be abroad working.

          I have let my colleagues know by posting in the Icelandic physician’s Facebook group. There are already some jovial comments.

          PS. What worries me is looking further down on this Facebook page and seeing the antivaccine nonsense and cancer cure bullshit. 🙁

          • In my recent comment, the second link to a Facebook page went missing. It seems to be the same club as is staging the “alchemy” freak-show, something called “Iceland School of homeopathy”.
            Here it is:
            https://www.facebook.com/iceschoolhom/

            Frightening to see how misinformed and ignorant these Icelandic homeopaths are about serious matters like vaccinations and cancer therapies. Just have a look at the nonsense they share on this Fb page. Makes your heart bleed.

    • “Vaxxed” has been easily accessible for free on the net since shortly after its premier. I have suffered through it and I know many ordinary people who watched it. As a good friend put it: “Leni Riefenstahl would have asked them to tone it down”.
      I can tell you dear “Imyndunarafl ” (Icelandic for “Power of imagination”, or simply “fantasy”) that most ordinary people I know who have watched it, have easily detected the fake propaganda.
      Its message of “fraudulent research” has been thoroughly debunke by many. There was nothing to cover up at CDC and much less something to blow a whistle on.

  • So many Drs are coming out now about the CDC cover up. Soon it will be safe for everyone to talk freely.
    Ignore it if you wish.
    Meanwhile continue living in your fantasy world of perfect EBM Björn.

    • what are you talking about? please explain.

    • All you need to know about the “CDC cover-up” (unless, of course, you want to continue your pretence of the existence of something that is non-existent):
      http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/cdcwhistleblower.asp

    • HomeopathyinIceland said:

      So many Drs are coming out now about the CDC cover up.

      Name one.

      Soon it will be safe for everyone to talk freely.

      Are they being prevented from talking now? If so, please provide an example and evidence.

      • Are they being prevented from talking now? If so, you should change your medication.

        • “Are they being prevented from talking now?”

          Don’t you know? The FDA and AMA and Big Pharma are having them killed! 🙂

          Barrie, Steve T. is debunking the whistleblower myth. He’s linking to Snopes.com.

          • Woo Fighter- Snopes I’ m familiar with. There’s so many layers upon layers now to some of these comments that it sometimes stumps a Bear of Very Little Brain. Especially given some of the lunacy that some people on here actually do believe.

    • So many Drs are coming out now about the CDC cover up

      Ah, the old and worn “CDC whistleblower” myth. There was nothing to cover up and blow the whistle on. That has been debunked so many times.
      What little is left of the Icelandic health-freedom movement, founded a few years ago seems to be a band of antivaccination zealots . They have been all potty with that CDC myth.
      And who said EBM was perfect? Not me.

      In numbers, both absolute and especially relative, the band of vaccine-paranoid MD’s is small and rather well known. I can name many of them. We have one in Iceland, who occasionally makes himself heard. He has been promoting all kinds of diffuse fantasies on behalf of the health-freedom-thing but seldom makes much sense in his ramblings.
      The health-freedom-gang in Iceland translated Suzanne Humphries’ and Roman Bystrianik’s infamous book and published last year. They even invited her to come over. I am still waiting for them to publish the promised video of that exhibition.
      They have also been rather preoccupied in their Fb outlet about the alleged assassinations of naturopaths and other quacks 🙂
      Facebook seems to think I should follow their postings so I have been injecting the occasional remark there, mostly to test their reactions and learn more about them. Many others do as well.
      As I have said before, I am actually sad to see that the homeopaths I previously thought rather benign seem to be degrading into antivaccine and cancer-quack lunacy.

      • The homeopaths are not anti vaccine. They are anti fraudulent research.

        As Dr Peter Fletcher ex chief Scientific Officer Dept of Health said:
        Quote
        ‘There are very powerful people in positions of great authority in Britain and elsewhere who have staked their reputations and careers on the safety of MMR and they are willing to do almost anything to protect themselves.’
        Yep almost anything.

        • Ah, Dr Peter Fletcher.

          Would that be the same Dr Peter Fletcher who led the committee on safety of medicines until about 40 years ago, and who came out of retirement a decade ago and trousered £40,000 from anti-MMR litigation? (Source: http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/3611). The same one who won’t be interviewed by anyone who is critical of Wakefield? The same one whose words the antivaxxers not-so-subtley doctor (“if it is proven that the jab causes autism….” becomes “It is proven that the jab causes autism.”? (e.g. https://twitter.com/BeckyJohnson222/status/718523503314542592)

          And, of course, the one who in your quote, attributes, without offering a shred of evidence, a motive to mysterious unidentified “powerful people”.

          If Dr Peter Fletcher is a reliable independent source on MMR safety, then my nose is a haddock.

        • The homeopaths are not anti vaccine. They are anti fraudulent research.

          So am I and I am sure every one of us who frequent this blog. We are adamantly against fraud and deception in research and health care in general. That is what this blog is all about and that is why I am an active critic of quackery and pestering you lot with facts and rational!

          Saying “…I am not antivaccine…” is a very common self-deceptive remark and probably the most telling sign of anti-vaccine paranoia.

          Homeopaths are by definition either blind, ignorant or both when it comes to research, what it is and how it works. Even the one’s with academic titles, as we have seen sad examples of here on this blog.
          A core problem with homeopathy is that they rely totally on non-research hearsay and anecdotes and would not know fraudulent research from genuine even if it bit them in the backside.
          If they did, they would have to stop shaking their water and fantasizing about “elements healing” or whatever to call the delusional daydreaming you lot are planning in Reykjavik next month.

          And please try to check your sources before making comments, you risk making fools of yourselves. Peter Fletcher is a fool as has already been shown in another comment today.
          You have to start realising that Vaccineimpact, Age of autism, Naturalnews. Mercola, whale-dot-to etc. are not sources of truth and wisdom. Medicine and health care are not perfect but that does not mean you can question it with rampant paranoia or fill the gaps with make-believe and magical fantasies like homeopathy.
          I keep reminding you about this back home but you just keep lapping it up. Really sad.

  • The homeopaths are not anti vaccine. They are anti fraudulent research.

    So am I and I am sure every one of us who frequent this blog. We are all adamantly against fraud and deception in research and health care in general. That is what this blog is all about and that is why I am an active critic of quackery and keep pestering you lot with facts and rational, substantiated information!

    Saying “…I am not antivaccine…” is a common self-deceptive remark and usually a most telling sign of anti-vaccine paranoia . Famously, Jenny McCarthy and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. are known to use this phrase. I seem to recall even your friend Suzanne Humphries said this.

    Homeopaths are by definition either blind, ignorant or both when it comes to research and evidence, what it is, what it isn’t and how it works and doesn’t work. Even the one’s with academic titles, as we have seen sad examples of here on this blog.
    A core element of the existence of homeopathy is ignorance of science. Homeopaths rely totally on junk-research, hearsay and anecdotes and would not know fraudulent from honest research even if it bit them in the backside.

    Please try to check your sources before making comments, you risk making fools of yourselves. Peter Fletcher is not a source of information on MMR as has already been shown in another comment today.
    Try asking yourselves a simple question: If MMR was as dangerous as you want to believe, why then is it used all over the world without question? Are the producers paying everyone off, even the Swedish, Finnish, Norwegian authorities etc. etc. They have all done extensive, independent research on it (and on many other vaccines). They all monitor closely its effects. That must be one powerful conspiracy to suppress evidence, or what. The Swedes for example are not known for being easily fooled when it comes to quality and safety, or what?
    You have to start realising that Vaccineimpact, Age of autism, Naturalnews, Infowars, Mercola, whale-dot-to, David Wolfe, greenmedinfo, etc. etc. are not repositories of truth and wisdom, only of paranoia, fear and deceptions.
    Here is a good source of reliable information: https://vaxopedia.org/

    Medicine and health care are not perfect but that does not mean you can question it with paranoia and fearmongering or fill the gaps with make-believe and magical fantasies e.g. homeopathy.

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