MD, PhD, MAE, FMedSci, FRSB, FRCP, FRCPEd.

The INDY and many other news outlets reported that the British Tory MP, Andrew Bridgen, has called on prime minister Rishi Sunak to suspend mRNA covid vaccines after alleging they are “not safe, not effective and not necessary”.

During Wednesday’s PMQs (13 December), Bridgen stated that “since the rollout in the UK of the BioNTech-Pfizer mRNA vaccine, we have had almost half a million reports of adverse effects from the public”, a message he later reiterated on Twitter.

Posting a snippet from his debate, Bridgen tweeted: “Almost half a million yellow card reports of adverse effects following administration of the Biotech Pfizer mRNA vaccine in the UK alone! Answers are desperately needed. #completelyunprecedented”.

Bridgen also claimed that a leading figure in the British Heart Foundation is suppressing evidence that the Covid vaccines cause heart damage, even sending non-disclosure agreements to his research team.

Facebook flagged his post with a notice urging users to ensure that they share “reliable information.” It included two links to “continue sharing” or “get vaccine info.”

The scandals Bridgen has been involved in seem too numerous to mention (e.g. violation of parliamentary standards, homophobic remarks, antisemitic statements). Here is just one of the most recent:

Leicestershire MP has been ordered to pay £800,000 and been evicted from his five bedroom home by a judge following a legal dispute involving the family vegetable business. It is currently unknown where Andrew Bridgen, Conservative MP for North West Leicestershire, lives after being given final deadline of August 24 to vacate the premises in Coleorton, near Coalville.

The 57-year-old was branded “dishonest” by a High Court judge in March – who ruled that Bridgen “lied” under oath. Judge Brian Rawlings said he was so dishonest that nothing he said about the dispute with AB Produce, a vegetable and potato supplier based in Measham, could be taken at face value.

Bridgen was also said to have behaved in an “abusive”, “arrogant” and “aggressive” way during the dispute, in which he has spent years suing the firm. A later judgment in June, reported by the Times on Sunday, forced the MP to vacate the £1.5 million-valued property owned by AB Produce that he has lived in since 2015…

For a fact check on Bridgeon’s vaccine claims, see here. And below are a few reactions from Twitter users to Bridgen’s Covid proctophsia:

First a High Court judge says Tory MP, Andrew Bridgen, lied under oath, then he evicts him from his home and orders him to pay £800,000 now Facebook flags his posts as Covid misinformation. How’s your week going?

Andrew Bridgen MP now promoting Dr David Cartland, a man who aligns himself with claims that Freemasons rule the world; that Covid doesn’t exist; and that medical doctors who don’t share his views should be executed (screenshots H/T

Andrew Bridgen MP now promoting Dr David Cartland, a man who aligns himself with claims that Freemasons rule the world; that Covid doesn’t exist; and that medical doctors who don’t share his views should be executed.

This Andrew Bridgen? ‘A Conservative MP lied under oath, behaved in an abusive, arrogant and aggressive way, and was so dishonest that his claims about a multimillion-pound family dispute could not be taken at face value, a high court judge has ruled.’

Proper tinfoil-hat stuff from Andrew Bridgen, suggesting Covid vaccines are unsafe, misrepresenting data, and implying some sort of conspiracy between ‘Big Pharma’ and MHRA.

99 Responses to British MP, Andrew Bridgen, claims that mRNA Covid vaccines are “not safe, not effective and not necessary”

  • “…what we do know is that people who question the efficacy or safety of the vaccine are generally cut down, cancelled… science works by challenge and these vaccines are not allowed to be challenged…” from 5:50 onwards here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gstEyC0eMQ

    • challenging established wisdom can be a good thing; telling lies is, however, never acceptable.

    • @Old Bob

      “…what we do know is that people who question the efficacy or safety of the vaccine are generally cut down, cancelled”

      I was about to question your behaviour as a citizen, especially with regard to crimes such as fraud, domestic abuse, and of course murder. Because if you look at crime statistics, there are quite a few people out there who commit such heinous acts – and you may very well be one of them. So maybe it’s best if we lock you up right away, just in case.
      But before I let loose, I give you the opportunity(*) to provide evidence that I am wrong about your criminal life – after all, we don’t want to spread any false accusations, now do we?

      *: And that is already more than what this Bridgen person has done.

    • Science works by being challenged. Indeed so. But the challenge needs to have some logical and/or empirical basis.

      IIRC, covid vaccines have been challenged by empirical evidence and appropriate changes to their use made.

      If you looked yourself at the yellow card reports you will many are for sore arm at injection site. Other example are onset of haemorrhoids, dental caries and fractured clavicle. Hard to see a cause and effect link to vaccines here.

      • Stephen Hicks on Monday 19 December 2022 at 09:58 said:
        “…If you looked yourself at the yellow card reports you will many are for sore arm at injection site. Other example are onset of haemorrhoids, dental caries and fractured clavicle. Hard to see a cause and effect link to vaccines here.”

        Check out page 6 from here:
        https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1121351/COVID-19_Vaccine_PfizerBioNTech_VAP.pdf

        Myocardial infarction 333 (cases) 50 (fatal)
        Myocardial ischaemia 16 (cases) 9 (fatal)

        • @Old Bob
          So let’s get this straight: millions of often OLD people get vaccinated, and then you cry wolf because 50 of those people are reported to have died from heart attacks within a couple of weeks or perhaps even months after receiving the vaccine?

          Do you have any idea how very stupid you just made yourself look – AGAIN, I might add?

          And oh, your reading skills do not appear to be all that good either: you completely ignore the many warnings that reporting is completely voluntary and open to anyone, and thus that those reports should not be used to suggest causality or draw any conclusions about safety.

          And note that even these inane, suggestive and/or dishonest comments from people such as you are not cut down, cancelled, censored or otherwise suppressed, but merely debunked.

        • Excellent. Now you are engaging with data NOT headline grabbing statements.
          Now you will need to.
          Consider if the side effects reporting is complete.
          Consider whether the effects are are a consequence of a vaccine or just a coincidental occurrence.
          To do this you might consider the baseline occurrence of these effects.
          Consider the occurrences you have now got to with the total number of people vaccinated.
          Consider whether the risk you have now come up is outweighed by the benefits.
          Oh – and you need to stratify all this for sex, age, social/societal/ethnic/morbidity background.

          Personally, I can’t do this because I don’t have the skills and the data. So I trust people who do have the skills and data to do it for me.

          Their conclusions can be found here https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1102459/Greenbook-chapter-14a-4September22.pdf and related documents.

          When you have read through all this and think you have a reason to agree with Bridgen’s statement please come back and let us know.

          • To both of you above:

            As “Good old Joe” said “…a million deaths is just a statistic.”:
            https://openvaers.com/covid-data

            Now scroll down slightly and look at the 2021 and 2022 totals, compared to all the other years from 1990, then scroll down some more and look at the temporal relationship between injection and onset.

            Then multiply these results by the URF of 41x (Rose et al.) or 100x (Stanford et al.) and you get a pointer to the excess deaths of the highly vaccinated countries that are reported by MSM as “anything but the vaccines” – despite not one country or authority investigating it – how do they know? If so, what is the cause?

          • Reg. Openvaers.com “By presenting unverified data as fact, OpenVAERS has become one of the most powerful tools in the anti-vaxxer community.” https://www.vice.com/en/article/qj8mm3/this-woman-secretly-runs-one-of-the-worlds-biggest-anti-vax-websites-from-her-house Rose et al. has been withdrawn https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8483988/

          • @Old Bob
            You seem to have a severe reading disorder. So here it is again, in a somewhat clearer format:

            DATA FROM VOLUNTARY, OPEN REPORTING SYSTEMS CANNOT BE USED TO ESTABLISH CAUSATION IN ANY WAY.

            Then again, you may be just trolling. Either way, your comments don’t make you look any smarter.

          • He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot, but don’t let that fool you. He really IS an idiot. —Groucho Marx

          • Richard Rasker on Monday 19 December 2022 at 14:13 yelled:
            “DATA FROM VOLUNTARY, OPEN REPORTING SYSTEMS CANNOT BE USED TO ESTABLISH CAUSATION IN ANY WAY.”

            Do you mean to say that only: data from forced, secret reporting systems can establish causation?

            Science is an open, non-secret, non-forced, debate by all, without censorship. In the light of day, not the dark of night.

          • I think he means to say that using such data is not science. GOT IT?

          • @Old Bob

            Science is an open, non-secret, non-forced, debate by all, without censorship. In the light of day, not the dark of night.

            The scientists responsible for setting up VAERS and other reporting systems warn people all the time that data collected and presented in those system CAN’T BE USED TO ESTABLISH CAUSATION. This is for a multitude of very good, scientific reasons. Why else do you think those warnings are there(*)? (And note that I’m really stretching the meaning of the word ‘think’ here.)

            *: You seem to me like the type of person who ignores the Maximum Height warning signs in front of a railway tunnel, and then blames the railway company when your truck is destroyed by driving through.

          • Richard Rasker on Monday 19 December 2022 at 15:59 said:
            “The scientists responsible for setting up VAERS and other reporting systems warn people all the time that data collected and presented in those system CAN’T BE USED TO ESTABLISH CAUSATION.”

            …or else? What is the penalty to be for questioning these royal personages? What are they afraid of? The truth does not need defense. It just *is*.

          • oh dear, you are surpassing yourself!

          • @Old Bob

            What is the penalty to be for questioning these royal personages?

            The consequence of not using the data collected by these scientists correctly is that you become a liar and a fraud, and will be treated as such.

            What are they afraid of?

            They are not afraid of anything, They just want to prevent people such as you from misusing their data to spread lies. Which is what you are doing.

            The truth does not need defense. It just *is*.

            Lies and propaganda such as yours on the other hand require the deliberate misrepresentation of data and rejection of scientific principles.

          • Richard Rasker on Tuesday 20 December 2022 at 00:43 said:
            “…Lies and propaganda such as yours…”

            You are wrong. Most medical professionals are being suppressed by force, while the brave ones speak out:
            https://twitter.com/MrAhmadKMalik/status/1603294362586136576

            NB the comments.

          • @Old Bob

            Most medical professionals are being suppressed by force

            What, all 30 million of them worldwide? Do you have any evidence for this utterly crazy claim?

            while the brave ones speak out

            You know what is so strange? Among all the lies and misinformation that those ‘brave ones’ are spreading, not a single one of them has ever mentioned any attempts of them ‘being suppressed by force’, let alone pointed the finger at any organizations or persons responsible for this alleged suppression.
            Which tells us that you’re just spouting crap. Again.

          • Richard Rasker on Tuesday 20 December 2022 at 10:40n said:

            “…You know what is so strange? Among all the lies and misinformation that those ‘brave ones’ are spreading, not a single one of them has ever mentioned any attempts of them ‘being suppressed by force’…”

            Yes, this is the latest. After Mr Ahmad Malik posted this:
            https://twitter.com/MrAhmadKMalik/status/1603294362586136576

            This happened:
            https://twitter.com/MrAhmadKMalik/status/1604400405865168897

          • @Old Bob

            After Mr Ahmad Malik posted this:

            OK, the usual misinformation and lies, with him being called out in the comments …

            This happened:

            Strange, I can still see the man’s lies and misinformation online. So this is clearly another lie.

            Anyway, I’ve been feeding the troll for long enough now, so I won’t respond to any more of your crap – as experience tells me that people like you have an endless supply, and I have much better things to do with my time.

  • Bridgen is a Brexiter. Brexit is political quackery. Support/promotion for/of both Brexit and medical quackery – including anti-vax pronouncements – suggests an association that would not be surprising. Certainly, pig-ignorance and craven dishonesty are common traits – as exemplified by Bridgen.

    • Lee Turnpenny on Monday 19 December 2022 at 09:14 said:
      “Bridgen is a Brexiter. Brexit is political quackery.”

      You have just insulted more than half the UK population that voted for Brexit. How does that further your cause?

      Likewise “…Brexit and medical quackery – including anti-vax pronouncements…”. Do you think that bullying will work?

      • 1) half the UK population did not vote for Brexit; it was just about one-third.
        2) those who voted for it did so because they were lied to.
        3) today, the majority of the UK population thinks Brexit was a mistake.

        • And we still hear the lie that Brexit enabled the UK to roll out the Covid vaccine sooner than EU countries despite the fact that any EU member can approve medicines in its own country without EMA approval. And in any case the UK was still in the transition period and so still subject to EU rules.

          All Brexit did was cause the UK to lose jobs and influence when the EMA relocated to Amsterdam. Probably to be followed by more of the UK pharmaceutical industry.

          • Socrates on Monday 19 December 2022 at 10:42 said:
            “And we still hear the lie that Brexit…”

            …would cause overnight economic collapse.

            The current lie is “Safe and Effective™” and “Prevent Transmission™” and “Safe in Pregnancy™” etc. These “vaccines™” are so safe that no investigation is required, nay, investigation-is-harmful-to-vaccine-hesitancy and anyone who even suggests it is guilty, without trial of being an anti-vaxxer, despite their having had the “vaccine™” such as Maddie De Garay.

          • So, Old Bob, do you really think Brexit isn’t causing economic collapse? I don’t recall it being seriously predicted to occur ‘overnight’ but if it was then that was an exaggeration given the long transition period. The full effects have yet to hit and already it’s bad.

            But then I suppose such a worldview is entirely consistent with your other views – not just alternative medicine but alternative reality.

          • Socrates on Monday 19 December 2022 at 14:34 said:
            “I don’t recall it being seriously predicted to occur ‘overnight’…”

            Quote from here:
            https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/524967/hm_treasury_analysis_the_immediate_economic_impact_of_leaving_the_eu_web.pdf

            “A vote to leave would cause an immediate and profound economic shock creating instability and uncertainty which would be compounded by the complex and interdependent negotiations that would follow.
            The central conclusion of the analysis is that the effect of this profound shock would be to push the UK into recession and lead to a sharp rise in unemployment. “

          • Ok Old Bob, so your defence is that the car crash is slower than predicted. I can acknowledge that, it’s largely due to the fudging of the consequences of the decision and the various concessions made. But look around and you’ll see that most of the predictions are biting.

            Does that also mean we can expect to see the extra £350m a week for the NHS soon?

          • Socrates on Monday 19 December 2022 at 17:52 said:
            “Ok Old Bob, so your defence is that the car crash is slower than predicted. I can acknowledge that, it’s largely due to the fudging of the consequences of the decision and the various concessions made. But look around and you’ll see that most of the predictions are biting.”

            The chaos all around is because the government blew half a trillion pounds on destroying the economy to “flatten the curve ™” in three weeks, and because the injections are “Safe and Effective ™” and because “masking ™” and “social distancing ™” and PPE ™ likewise.

            “Does that also mean we can expect to see the extra £350m a week for the NHS soon?”
            That’s the trouble with “free medical care ™” – it’s too expensive.

          • I’m not going to argue about the government wasting money – much of it to their cronies for useless PPE. Nor about some of the over aggressive policing of the restrictions, much of it due to lack of clarity in the law and some of it due to…. well, just over aggressive police. Nothing to do with the virus itself.

            As for your “free medical care” comment – had ever a point been more widely missed? That was a Brexit lie and whilst free medical care isn’t cheap just look at the cost of a for profit model.

          • @Socrates

            A for profit medical system would work, that is to say a free market system. Many would argue that we have it, but not actually.

            We don’t have it in the USA. We have a system that involves restricting education by limiting numbers (students) and exorbitant University cost. Insurance companies that go between patients and MDs that add cost by skimming profits for themselves. Furthermore, these insurance companies are limited to the public in choice and options…. lowering the advantage to consumers. Then we have the MDs that are not free to operate as they choose, they must adhere to AMA protocols. Beyond all this, we have MDs that must insure to the hilt because the dumbass court system allows for ridiculous malpractice awards.

            If the “free-market” system could just eliminate all the red tape BS from the system, perhaps a patient could just see a doctor and pay out of pocket when needed. At a maximum be protected by what’s known as catastrophic care. A free-market system where doctors actually compete with EACH OTHER could work very well. However, it will never happen due to the greed of those that have rigged the system.
            Much the same, capitalism and free markets are dwindling in most places. Crony Capitalism is the new economy.

          • That is correct.

            “…the bond between men is not the exchange of suffering but the exchange of goods…” (Francesco’s money speech).

      • ‘You have just insulted more than half the UK population… ‘

        Actually, no I haven’t. Methinks it is you who (affects to) feel(s) insulted – and makes a statement that would require polling based on high subjectivity.

        Your reaction is nothing new (‘bullying’? Get over yourself!), and reveals much.

  • What a promising headline! Edzard going after the pseudo-science of these ‘vaccines’? Great.

    Bit what follows is just a string of attempted shots at the messenger, ad hominem to this MP? And the ‘interesting’ stuff relegated to special ‘debunking’ site cale dfullfactz that mangles the facts into submission via a few overly specific ‘dementia’?

    Like ‘underreporting isn’t a thing’, because the ‘MHRA now modified their website to indicate that the underreporting [that still _is_ present!] is now different than before’?

    Yeah.

    The underreporting is certainly _bigger_ for this one, however scandalous the figures collected in that way may have been before. Vax-victims are kept ostracised.

    Instead of cherrypricking some reports about tooth decay, sore arms etc, why not look at more serious events, like all the deaths? Hundreds and eventually thousands of ’em.

    And those do occur, only some are actually counted as such, and the droves of vaccine injured that survived so far were and are given a very hard time to register their complaints. That is not just underrporting, but suppression of facts.

    Just take this example: https://doi.org/10.3390/vaccines10101651 Dismissed, ridiculed and lied about, but then proven killed-by-vax. And ‘of course’, that case _still_ doesn’t show up in the local jurisdictions pharmacovigilance data.

    And that is repeated through all levels. At my hospital, two thirds of colleagues were out of commission for at least a whole day. None of them even thought about reporting these side-effects. None of those injured I know personally has even their case properly acknowledged, diagnosed or
    treated; no reports at all on those were even filed.
    Since Edzard seems to chose ignorance on this one:

    The saying extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence?
    The outrageous claims are:
    – that these clot shots _are ‘vaccines’._
    – that these toxic syringes do something good
    – that these genetherapy injections would have indeed negligible harm
    – that there would be some favourable cost-benefit ratio
    – that this would have been proven in at least one proper RCT

    So, Eddy, where is the RCT that proves all of that?

    The Pfizer/Pollack one? The one that surely had not the slightest iff of a conflict of interest? That one that destroyed the control group after a few weeks? That had enormous drop outs, especially in the intervention group? Massive data fraud? Where more people died in the intervention group? Where more than half the number of the ‘posPCR’ from the control where matched with more than 70 people — not 8! — who by their very N-antibody status (that wasn’t publicised in the main publication text, as usual) were shown to have acquired _natural immunity_ while supposedly ‘remaining unifected via vax-protection’?

    The result of the one gold standard RCT on vax-safety and efficacy shows that even with known fraud and other disingenious methods and sloppiness during the initial covidia year they could not manage to produce decent numbers showing a mere relative risk reduction that’s worth writing home about. And yet, Eddy’s belief is a strong one?

    Could it be that homeopathy has much more and much better RCTs than these ‘vaccines’? (Note that I do not say that they would be all out positive for the mentioned ‘treatment’. But HP _has_ those trials to evaluate it!)

    There is no proper study of even vax effectiveness, and fullfact just piles up on the lies. Seeing Edzard sharing and endorsing this shows how national-vaccinist the orientation of this smear campaigners dog pile is. Linking to the bullshit-site called fullfact was the last nail needed to hammer this in?

    Or will you take a look yourself, and apply an autopsy, with the usual standards touted about on this blog? Looking at the catastrophic balance sheet for these shots?

    • Oh look. Another foaming loon with another Gish Gallop of tinfoil-hatted garbage. Shall we do a patient evidence-based piece-by piece deconstruction of his nonsense?

      No. A waste of time.

      Because it won’t change anything. Michael will continue to believe what he believes no matter what we say because he’s yet another ignorant antivax halfwit who needs to believe he’s party to Special Facts in order to boost his deficient ego.

      Run along, Michael. Reality will continue without you.

  • To all

    “The British Heart Foundation’s advice on vaccines is based on rigorous scrutiny of the latest evidence, which to date shows that the benefits of receiving the Covid -19 vaccine greatly outweigh the risk of extremely rare side effects for the vast majority of people.”

    OK, it’s suspect, but even if it’s true that the benefit outweighs the risk. You are forcing a population to get jabbed at least three times per year to have good efficacy, the efficacy dwindles fast after that. So, with no evidence that it stops transmission or infection from or to any individual patient, only a suspicion that the patient jabbed won’t die from the virus.
    This is not how that vaccines were sold to us. We were told that if we didn’t take the jab, we were killing grandma. So, in essence, people are being forced to be vaccinated to protect THEMSELES from potential death.
    This should not be. This is not much different from forcing any therapy that could have negative consequences on a patient with a chronic illness.

  • Bridgen is a fascinating character
    All my time is currently spent on researching some appalling quackery and abuses right now so no time to share in depth but this piece is a good starting place if readers are interested in learning more about Mr Bridgen
    https://barthsnotes.com/2018/11/18/times-column-mocks-rent-a-quote-mp-andrew-bridgen-some-observations/

  • just found this on Twitter:
    Andrew Bridgen SUSPENDED from commons for 5 days due to ‘breaching lobbying rules’.

    • To all

      FDA admits that Pfizer covid vaccine has serious side effects.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5m5LnRuOdM

      • has anyone ever disputed it?
        and please show me the 2 morons in your video again.

          • … or perhaps you specialize in conspiracy sites and videos?
            In any case, the original press release from the pharma firm would be more relevant that the comments of 2 morons.

          • @RG

            It’s not being reported in the mainstream news outlets.

            And the most logical explanation for that it is most probably a lie – just like all those other thousands of ‘bombshells’ that those sewers channels dream up to keep their sheeple hooked.

            Here’s the channel page for your original YT link: https://www.youtube.com/@RedactedNews
            It’s one big heap of pro-Putin propaganda, lies and other filthy garbage. I almost feel that I need a shower after visiting it.

            The other channels are not much better. Here’s the actual paper that their lies were based on – and that you would have linked to in the first place if you were an honest person:
            https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X22014931

            Scientists evaluated 14 types of adverse events in millions of 65+ vaccine recipients, based on data from early-warning systems, and concluded that the data signalled a slightly elevated risk in one of those AE’s, pulmonary embolism. However, a signal is NOT a proven causal link – and this is also what those researchers explicitly say:

            “Because an early warning system does not prove that the vaccines cause these outcomes, more robust epidemiologic studies with adjustment for confounding, including age and nursing home residency, are underway to further evaluate these signals.”

            So no, the FDA does not ‘admit that Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine is linked to blood clotting’ AT ALL. They are just researching a signal, a possible link that may well be a statistical artefact. After all, they assessed no less than 14 different types of adverse events – which means that it is not unexpected that at least one of those appears to show an increase.

            What all this means is that this ‘bombshell’ is indeed just a lie from the gutter media.
            It is almost painful to watch how rationally challenged people such as you keep falling for this kind of crap.

          • Richard Rasker on Tuesday 20 December 2022 at 15:23 said:

            “And the most logical explanation for that it is most probably a lieWhat all this means is that this ‘bombshell’ is indeed just a lie from the gutter media…
            It is almost painful to watch how rationally challenged people such as you keep falling for this kind of crap.”

            Just as you fall for this “kind of crap”:
            https://twitter.com/albertbourla/status/1377618480527257606

          • @Richard Rasker

            Well of course it’s a lie Richard, just like it was a lie that the Covid virus came from Wuhan…. those raciest, tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist.

          • even your attempt on humor does not work.

          • @EE

            Not humor professor…. it’s called sarcasm.
            Edzard, I have learned never never never to expect anything but negative comments from you.

          • And I thought you had learned never never never to post anything but nonsense.

          • @RG

            Well of course it’s a lie Richard …

            Well, good to hear you at least admit that; your honesty is appreciated. But could you please explain why you posted this in the first place? Maybe it is somehow fun to dump this kind of garbage here and watch people sift through it in order to conclude that, yes, it is garbage? I’m genuinely curious.

          • I do wonder what sort of rubbish you will present us next and pretend it’s evidence

          • Maybe Jeffrey Sachs will change your mind?:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NoMbJWq4EQ

          • isn’t it time you learned what amounts to evidence and what not?

          • Old Bob wrote “SARS-Cov2 [sic] is man-made”.

            Biological viruses can replicate, but only by commandeering the reproductive machinery of cells through a process of infection.”
            Self-replication, Wikipedia

            A virus is a submicroscopic infectious agent that replicates only inside the living cells of an organism. Viruses infect all life forms, from animals and plants to microorganisms, including bacteria and archaea.
            Virus, Wikipedia

            In the COVID‑19 pandemic caused by variants of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS‑CoV‑2) — a strain of coronavirus that causes COVID‑19 symptoms — humans are the primary organism (host) whose cells replicate the virus. The replication process is prone to errors, some of which lead to genetic mutations, some of which lead to the emergence of new variants.

            So, yes, the virions of these variants could be said to be “man‑made”; manufactured within/by infected human cells.

          • @Old Bob

            Please show me the credentials of Jeffrey Sachs that he can determine the origin of Corona. He doesn’t have any? No wonder, because Sachs is an economist without any corresponding scientific training on this subject.

            “eugyppius” is some conspiracy blog from Bavaria, Germany, like a thousand others.

            Dr. Aseem Malhotra is a cardiologist without any knowledge of virology, immunology or epidemiology who spreads conspiracy theories and misinformation about corona and corona vaccination.

            Your proofs and witnesses are trash.

          • I have no problem believing a whistle blower over a government agency that has everything to hide.
            I’m forever grateful to Edward Snowden.

            https://nypost.com/2020/09/11/chinese-virologist-says-she-has-proof-covid-19-was-made-in-wuhan-lab/

          • RG,

            Careful what you say, buddy. There are many ways for government gubmint to track you, for example: vaccines, roads, public transit, internet, water, power, literally anything that gubmit had a hand in providing. If you look out your window, you will see a drone circling above your house. It is there locked and loaded, ready to drone your a$$, as soon as it receives orders from President Bidet. Everything you say and think is being recorded in a gubmit database, do you know that? I bet you don’t because you keep brainlessly yammering on and on here and elsewhere.

            You know what happened to Trump, right? he is sitting in jail right now for speaking the truth. He is too big to get droned, so they secretly arrested him and threw him in jail. That’s right! mainstream media is not reporting it, they are acting like he is still at mara-lago. You on the other hand are a smidgen on big gubmit’s jack boots and they will drone you without hesitation. Therefore, allow me to provide you with an opportunity to protect your hindquarter from big gubmint intrusion. I sell various tinfoil hats that will prevent the gubmit from reading your thoughts. For Yappy McYappington types like you, I recommend my best seller The Big Red Invisible for $1000. It is a big red invisible tinfoil hat that you put on and forget about it and go on with your life yapping about gubmit overreach and what not and their drones won’t be able to pinpoint your location. If you refer 10 of your fellow gubmit hating idiots to me, I will send you a lifetime supply of Big Red Invisible for free, just pay $69.69 for S+H. What are you waiting for? Act now before you get yourself droned!

          • sorry to hear that.
            and now for the evidence [rather than anecdote]

          • https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-aseem-malhotra-lecture-isnt-what-you-think-it-is/

            Dr. Malhotra’s claims generally lack strong evidence to support them. They seem to be based on pre-existing beliefs and a narrative he is trying to advance, not the peer-reviewed literature. This is why the quality of evidence provided to the end-user is extraordinarily important. For all these reasons, please, please take the lecture, and all his future presentations on the same topic, with a grain of sodium-free salt substitute.

            Run along OB. Take your trash with you when you leave.

          • Former federal MP and high-profile medic Dr Kerryn Phelps says both she and her wife have suffered vaccine injuries from their Covid jabs – and claimed regulators are censoring discussion on the topic.:

            https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/medical/kerryn-phelps-jackie-strickie-phelps-doctor-reveals-she-and-wife-suffered-pfizer-vaccine-injuries/ar-AA15tlQB

          • you are amazingly resistant to learning and evidently have not yet understood what amounts to anecdote and what to evidence.

          • These are anecdotes in a documentary called “anecdotals”:
            https://odysee.com/@AnecdotalsMovie:3/Anecdotals:c

            NB that these anecdotes were banned on youtube in 48 hours, just as these folks have been abandonned by the FDA, whose job it is to protect them.

          • Often, it is difficult to judge whether somebody is willfully ignorant or truly deluded.

            — Mark Alicke, PhD, (a professor of psychology at Ohio University), Willful Ignorance and Self‑Deception, Psychology Today (2017)

          • Pete Attkins on Wednesday 21 December 2022 at 23:35 said:
            “Often, it is difficult to judge whether somebody is willfully ignorant or truly deluded.”

            Barnes summed it up in one sentence, as “…motivated reasoning: Motivation is the mast of our reason, always, reason is never the master of motivation…” (1:20:00) here:
            https://rumble.com/v219eoy-ep.-142-florida-vax-grand-jury-trump-indictment-jfk-files-arizona-update-an.html

            Evidently, we all started out, emotionally-driven to reason that vaccines are the best because it is self-evident that avoidance is best! Likewise the eradication of all sorts of diseases! Hence there *cannot* be any counter argument, hence there is no point listening, hence they should be banned!

            So by “pure logic” we have moved from free speech to censorship.

            No, we got there more by emotional-drive, than by logic because we cannot have free speech and censorship at the same time, just as you cannot have cancer and not have cancer at the same time.

            So to avoid the contradiction, you roll back the censorship and allow discussion… and let the otherside speak (as on this blog), with their own motivated-reasoning, as a counter-balance and, with time and experience, with anecdotes and evidence, with observational and randomly-controlled-blind studies, data accumulates and the most likely truth emerges, despite our own beliefs or in accordance with them, depending on how well we know the world and ourselves, etc.

          • Old Bob

            So to avoid the contradiction, you roll back the censorship and allow discussion

            Spreading lies is not the same as ‘discussion’. Anti-vaccine people are not interested in any fair discussion(*) if only because they will NEVER admit to being wrong, no matter how crystal clear the evidence is that they ARE in fact wrong.
            All they want is to spread their nefarious lies as far and wide as possible.

            *: Not to mention the fact that there often isn’t anything to discuss – if for instance someone claims that Covid vaccines kill more people than Covid-19 itself, then the best course of action is to simply ignore such patent idiots, NOT to lend them any credence by taking their nonsense seriously and ‘discussing’ it.
            At which points those idiots start whining that they are being ‘censored’ etcetera, simply because private media platforms do not want to help spread their crap.

  • Australia

    Landmark class action lawsuit targets government accusing vaccine negligence over vaccine injuries.

    https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/australians-seeking-compensation-for-being-allegedly-injured-from-covid-vaccines/ar-AA1axzb8

  • Proof: The FDA knew on September 17, 2021 that people who got the COVID vaccine were 2X more likely to be infected:

    https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/proof-the-fda-knew-on-september-17?utm_source=substack

    • Ah, Steve Kirsch. A man reliably wrong about everything. Much like you, Bob.

      • No, he is just the messenger, the data is there on page 22, as reported – see for yourself:
        https://www.fda.gov/media/152176/download

        • @Old Bob
          No, Steve Kirsch is not ‘just the messenger’. Kirsch is a clueless idiot who couldn’t read a scientific paper if his life depended on it, yet pretends to know more about vaccine safety than actual scientists. And YOU are brainlessly repeating his stupidity – I bet that you can’t explain in your own words what that page 22 of the paper actually says (and I seriously doubt if you even read it, let alone understood it).

          As I’m far too busy right now with more important things I’m not going to stoop to your level by analysing the information and pointing out all the places where Kirsch messed up, but I’m pretty sure that he already doesn’t know what for instance ‘person-year’ means in statistical analysis, and how this translates to actual numbers and percentages of people.

        • No, Bob. It doesn’t say what Kirsch claims. At all. Try reading it again and doing a little bit of understanding. All you’re doing here is demonstrating Kirsch’s one-eyed ineptitude when it comes to evaluating evidence.

        • Whether an entity such as “Old Bob” understands (or not) that 2 + 2 == 4, is irrelevant to the truth of 2 + 2 == 4.

          Likewise it makes no difference if Steve Kirsh says that 2 + 2 == 4 (or not) or if anyone else says otherwise.

          The truth (or not) does not depend on who says it.

          • the trouble is that OB rarely claims 2+2 to be 4 but usually insists it’s 5.

          • Old Bob posts the same crap again and again, can’t seem to get himself out of a hamster wheel of his own making.

            There are several examples but here is a recent long-winded thread where OB posted a bunch of BS that has been refuted by others: https://edzardernst.com/2023/04/how-can-we-reduce-the-belief-in-conspiracy-theories/#comment-145578

            Don’t we all know by now that OB has nothing new to say? Do we have to end up on his hamster wheel in order to refute the same BS again and again?

          • @Old Bob

            Whether an entity such as “Old Bob” understands (or not) that 2 + 2 == 4, is irrelevant to the truth of 2 + 2 == 4.

            Thank you for admitting your ignorance on the subject. It is however generally ill-advised to repeat things that other people say when you don’t understand those things, as it comes with a very high risk that you are NOT in fact representing the truth.

            The truth (or not) does not depend on who says it.

            Correct. And the big problem here is that Mr Kirsch is not telling the truth – either by deliberately lying, or, just like you, by not understanding what this paper he refers to is actually saying.
            Now I tend to give people the benefit of doubt, and usually adhere to Hanlon’s razor in explaining why people say things that aren’t true. However, in the light of Mr Kirsch being consistently wrong about everything related to Covid-19, I’m afraid that the driving force behind his untruthful utterances has shifted from simple ignorance and incompetence in the subject matter to a rather more detrimental form of Belief (i.e. that Vaccines are Bad), prompting him to shoehorn everything he comes across into that belief.

          • @Richard Rasker said
            “However, in the light of Mr Kirsch being consistently wrong about everything related to Covid-19, I’m afraid that the driving force behind his untruthful utterances has shifted from simple ignorance and incompetence in the subject matter to a rather more detrimental form of Belief (i.e. that Vaccines are Bad), prompting him to shoehorn everything he comes across into that belief.”

            You are forgetting that Kirsch took two doses of the mRNA vaccine before he changed his mind.

          • @Old Bob

            You are forgetting that Kirsch took two doses of the mRNA vaccine before he changed his mind.

            So what? People can change their mind, both for good reasons and bad reasons. Kirsch believes that he is knowledgeable on the subject of vaccines, epidemiology and statistics, whereas in reality, he is completely clueless (also see the Dunning-Kruger effect) – so his current opinions and statements on this subject can (and should) be ignored, especially since they not only contradict the overwhelming scientific consensus, but are in fact demonstrably wrong.

            Please note that I am not really knowledgeable on this subject either, not having studied epidemiology and vaccines etcetera – so my personal(!) opinion on the matter is equally useless. Instead, I rely on the combined opinions and knowledge of people who ARE in fact knowledgeable: scientists, doctors, statisticians and others who know how to do proper research and analysis. But even then I make sure that I understand what they’re claiming before accepting and repeating their opinion, and check if what an individual scientist says makes sense. If it appears that a formerly reputable scientist messed up (the name of Ioannidis comes to mind), I shall henceforth take a more critical look at what they’re saying, compare it to what other scientists say, and usually set it aside from the main body of evidence and knowledge for the time being.
            If those contrarian findings turn out to be correct and supported by proper science after all (something that to the best of my knowledge has not happened yet), I shall change my mind and accept it as part of the larger body of evidence – but still only provisional of course, in case new and different evidence comes up.

          • Say we have opposing camps, each clinging to their beliefs. One side starts drifting to the other (but not vice versa). There must be something more significant in the growing camp – Yes? No?

            This is what we are seeing: a constant drifting, from “vaxxer” to “anti-vaxxer” but never the other way round. Can you name *one* individual who was anti-vax who switched to being vaxxer?

  • “Pfizer Quietly Financed Supposedly Independent Groups Lobbying for Covid VACCINE MANDATES”
    https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateVaccines/comments/12xqncn/pfizer_quietly_financed_groups_lobbying_for_covid/
    Now why would they need to do that ?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hsT7kMRAd0

    • It’s the perfect business model: the government takes the money from the people and uses the force of law to vaccinate the people while giving immunity to the vaccine manufactures who then use said profits to lobby the government etc who then promote more forced-vaccination etc.

      • @OLD Bob

        Not to disagree

        I think the crux of the matter is really more focused on vaccine mandates…. not vaccines. I imagine some have drifted towards anti-vax, but certainly a large segment of the world does NOT support vaccine mandates.

        Justin Trudeau is now attempting to back-peddle and message that he didn’t force ANYBODY to get a vaccine. Canceling a person and seizing their bank account if they don’t vaccinate IS forcing a person to take a jab.

        • Sure, it’s the use of force at the root of it, which is supported by the useful idiots who imagine that they are immune: “[Those that feed the crocodile, hoping it will eat them last.]” (Churchill, again).

        • RG,

          Not just Trudeau, many world leaders afflicted by the Woke Mind Virus (WMV) are now back-peddling on vax mandates. I wonder if they got forcefully vaccinated against WMV. But I get your point, mandates and cancellations should not happen in a democracy. People should be allowed to do and say whatever they please. This reminds of the following quote from Rand:

          “The collective cannot decide what is to be the purpose of a man’s existence nor prescribe his choice of happiness.”

          • Too right!
            (Re: get-vaccinated-for-others)
            “I swear by my life and my love of it, never to live for the sake of another man, nor ask him to live for mine.”

          • @Jack-In-The-Box

            People should be allowed to do and say whatever they please.

            Then I say that I want to forcefully vaccinate you against a deadly infectious disease. And don’t you dare deny my my absolute democratic freedom to do so!

          • Personal freedom prohibits any attack on personal freedom by definition.

            There is no such thing as democratic freedom because group rights automatically override individual rights.

    • @Old Bob

      the truth is coming out.

      Strange … every time you deploy the letter sequence t-r-u-t-h what I see reads ‘lies’ …

      • That is your concern.

        (correction: Byram Bridle starts at around the 3 hour mark).

        NB:
        David E. Martin (17:00 – 34:00): on the history.
        Natalia Prego (starting at 04:46:00) on the reproductive system.
        Ryan Cole from 06:24:00: cancer mechanisms – hear/see/speak no evil.
        Maria Gutschi 07:21:43 regulatory standards lowered. 07:27:51 SV40 promoter
        Meryl Nass 08:01:30
        Robert Malone 08:10:00

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