Proponents of so-called alternative medicine (SCAM) are often – as we had many opportunities to observe here on this blog – not impressed with the safety and efficacy of COVID vaccinations. This is despite the fact that several studies have demonstrated the huge number of lives saved by them, both at national and multi-country level in the earlier stages of the pandemic. I wonder whether the doubters will be convinced by new evidence.
This analysis estimates how many lives were directly saved by vaccinating adults against COVID in the Region, from December 2020 through March 2023.
The researchers estimated the number of lives directly saved by age-group, vaccine dose and circulating Variant of Concern (VOC) period, both regionally and nationally, using weekly data on COVID-19 mortality and COVID-19 vaccine uptake reported by 34 European areas and territories (CAT), and vaccine effectiveness (VE) data from the literature. They calculated the percentage reduction in the number of expected and reported deaths.
The authors found that vaccines reduced deaths by 57% overall (CAT range: 15% to 75%), representing ∼1.4 million lives saved in those aged ≥25 years (range: 0.7 million to 2.6 million): 96% of lives saved were aged ≥60 years and 52% were aged ≥80 years; first boosters saved 51%, and 67% were saved during the Omicron period.
The authors concluded that over nearly 2.5 years, most lives saved by COVID-19 vaccination were in older adults by first booster dose and during the Omicron period, reinforcing the importance of up-to-date vaccination among these most at-risk individuals. Further modelling work should evaluate indirect effects of vaccination and public health and social measures.
The authors feel that their results reinforce the importance of up-to-date COVID-19 vaccination, particularly among older age-groups. Communication campaigns supporting COVID-19 vaccination should stress the value of COVID-19 vaccination in saving lives to ensure vulnerable groups are up-to-date with vaccination ahead of periods of potential increased transmission.
Those SCAM proponents who are not convinced of the merits of COVID and other vaccinations will undoubtedly claim that this new analysis was biased and thus unreliable. Therefore, it seems worth stating that this work was supported by a US Centers for Disease Control cooperative agreement, who had no role in data analysis or interpretation. The authors affiliated with the World Health Organization (WHO) are alone responsible for the views expressed in this publication and they do not necessarily represent the decisions or policies of the WHO.
164 Responses to COVID vaccinations reduced death rates in Europe by 57%
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Idiots are idiots. You can not convince idiots. Whatever you say, they will deny it.
In Germany idiots show up, many MDs among them, who claim that the vaccinations caused the many deaths. They use the statistics graphs, which show the number of dead. And the more vaccinations, the more dead. Or something like that.
Among those MDs are many homeopaths. No wonder. And many anti-vaxxers. No wonder.
Idiots are idiots.
Edzard Ernst says: “If you make a claim in a comment, support it with evidence.”
Well, when the anti-vaxxers and other idiots have their accomplices in politics and courts, it is rather complicated to show names, because the idiots immediately would sue.
So, simply see the idiots at large, e.g. on Twitter.
The only thing we can do: wait until SarsCoV2 eliminates them. We need time, and a bunker to stay in safety.
ama
As you pointed out, many from the medical community have expressed their disapproval of the mRNA covid vaccines. Worldwide, I would put the number at many at many hundreds of thousands. Think about that, why has that happened. Are they all “idiots” … as you say. Or is something else going on that you don’t want to acknowledge.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/98196
Certainly, there were previously not this many vaccine hesitant MD’s. So, what happened ? I can guess that if not for retaliation, or fear of being cancelled as an MD, the numbers would be higher.
The percentage of MDs not wearing masks, even when they are near VERY vulnerable patients, is extremely high, perhaps over 95 percent. Which means that 95 percent of MDs obviously are idiots. And this even without looking at the topic of vaccination.
We now observe THE TOTAL DISASTER of medicine. The whole health care sector fell back into the dark Middle Ages.
Now imagine: The naturopaths and all the other “alternative” gangsters are lower than that.
Houston, we have problem…
ama
There is no real evidence that wearing masks stops the spread of covid viruses.
Chances are, the MD’s know this.
@
RG“John”Oh, but there absolutely is.
MD’s have know for at least a century that masks help curb the spread of infectious particles – a notion that is once again confirmed by the anecdotal evidence above.
But tell me,
RG“John”, and maybe you can shed some light on this, why are antivaxx imbeciles not only opposed to (in their words, not mine) ‘Big Pharma profit-driven experimental treatments’ such as vaccination, but ALSO to completely natural and even traditional means such as social distancing and face masks for curbing the spread of deadly diseases? One would almost think that they want to see as many people as possible die miserably …You know that the article is two years old?
And you also know that a doctor is not necessarily a research scientist?
And surely you know that only non-specialist doctors who have no idea about immunology have spoken out against mRNA vaccines?
@RPGNo1
Not only the article is 2 years old, but the data was collected (May 2021) almost a year before it was published. They address that in the limitations:
And then there is this limitation:
@John a.k.a RG
I know you are as smart as a bag of rocks but there is no way you can draw this conclusion
from a survey of 625 US physicians at one moment in time 3 years ago (at the beginning of vaccine rollout). Besides, you chose to ignore the fact (clearly reported in the paper) that roughly 90% of the respondents expressed a positive attitude (jabs are important, safe & effective) towards vaccines. To put that in words you’d understand: 563 physicians agree vs 62 disagree. Unless you are illiterate in mathematics, you’d agree that 563 is greater than 62. No?
“many from the medical community”
The article you cite is for the US alone, a country where osteopaths and naturopaths are included in the term ‘physicians’. They are not, in reality, part of the medical community. Not even the US recognises them as MDs. They are quacks.
“Worldwide, I would put the number at many hundreds of thousands. Think about that”
I am. I’m thinking you made that figure up, as you present zero evidence for it.
“I can guess that if not for retaliation, or fear of being cancelled as an MD, the numbers would be higher.”
Ah, ‘cancelled’. The go-to cry of the proponent of what Dr Margaret McCartney terms ‘bollocksology’. Look, if you push actively dangerous anti-health propaganda as a MD, expect to lose your medical licence. Just as, if you persistently drive your car in a dangerous manner, you should expect to lose your driving licence.
Well you could trust the modellers, or wait for the suppressed evidence from here (why suppress it, if not guilty?):
https://icandecide.org/press-release/breaking-federal-judge-orders-cdc-to-release-all-v-safe-free-text-entries-in-a-huge-win-for-vaccine-safety-transparency/
[quote]
…
However, one critical part of V-safe data was missing: the free-text fields. These are fields where users could type in up to 250 characters about anything they wanted, such as details on their additional symptoms or their medical care. One of the reasons the free-text data is so important is because the check-the-box data previously released to ICAN, beyond being able to report seeking medical care or being unable to perform normal life functions, only tracked minor and generalized reactions such as “Chills,” “Headache,” “Fatigue or tiredness,” and “Vomiting.” Thus, the only place for participants to report serious and anticipated adverse reactions, including myocarditis, was in these free-text fields, making this data crucial to understanding COVID-19 vaccines’ safety profile and our federal health authorities’ resulting actions.
We are therefore thrilled to announce that in a lawsuit against CDC, brought by the lawyers that regularly represent ICAN on behalf of the Freedom Coalition of Doctors for Choice, District Court Judge Matthew Kacsmaryk ordered CDC to produce every single free-text entry sought within just over a year, by January 15, 2025! This is a huge win for transparency.
[end of quote]
or perhaps it’s just your critical thinking capacity that is suppressed?
@Old “brainless” Bob
You are linking worthless information from an anti-vaccination group. As you have always done, are doing and will continue to do in the future.
By the way: How much does Del Bigtree pay you to spread his propaganda? You could actually disclose the figures.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informed_Consent_Action_Network
Antivax loons looking for things that aren’t there and then claiming they’ve found something. All they do is make themselves look stupid.
QUOTE from Edzard’s post:
96% of lives saved were aged ≥60 years
COMMENT: But how was that extraordinary figure arrived at I wonder? It is impossible to make any claim that a vaccine has saved X% of lives – there is no logic to it. Interestingly, UK Gov stats (NICE) for the flu jab over a 5 year period claim 35% effectiveness, although I suspect that figure may be optimistic!
People of all ages and ethnic backgrounds died during the pandemic for a variety of reasons – some had been jabbed (with or without additional booster shots) and some were so called VAXX-HESITANT peeps (aka vaxx-cautious).
I was age 75 at the start of the Covid vaccination roll out in the UK, and nearly everyone in my extensive network of colleagues, friends, medical professionals (including myself) decided to rely on our natural immunity rather than be impregnated with a cocktail of synthetic chemicals that had not been subjected to long-term safety and efficacy studies.
I and my peers are extremely fortunate it seems to all be alive and well in 2024 assuming that a massive 96% of lives were saved because they were vaccinated is actually true.
To label people who chose not to get jabbed as proponents of SCAM is quite nonsensical.
For your interest:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/19/doctor-died-from-rare-reaction-to-astrazeneca-covid-jab-uk-coroner-rules
“But how was that extraordinary figure arrived at I wonder? It is impossible to make any claim that a vaccine has saved X% of lives – there is no logic to it.”
Just because you fail to understand something does not meant that it’s impossible.
“saved lives” … yeah, saved patients from dying from the covid virus, only then to die later from serious side effects. Great ! … go ahead and pat yourselves on the back.
A neighbor of mine is one unsuspecting victim. He began with heart issues after the initial jabs, and the first booster.
He told me yesterday that he just took his fifth jab. Poor guy, he doesn’t even realize that he’s a victim of big pharma’s recklessness.
I liken it all the oncologists that pat themselves on the back because their patient didn’t die from cancer. Yet, it’s obvious that the immune system suffered due to the treatment when the patients die from infectious disease. As in pneumonia and influenza, viruses, or septicemia etc.
“saved patients from dying from the covid virus, only then to die later from serious side effects.”
TIME TO ABANDON WACKY CONSPIRACY THEORIES !
@Troll John
You are talking garbage, but that is nothing new.
All side effects of the corona vaccines are listed on the package leaflets. They have been updated again and again as new information has become available. For example, a slightly increased risk of myocarditis in certain groups of people in the case of Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna.
Every person who is vaccinated must be informed about the side effects and can then still decide against it.
As for the deaths you are trying to play up:
https://www.rki.de/SharedDocs/FAQ/COVID-Impfen/FAQ_Todesfaelle.html
“All side effects of the corona vaccines are listed on the package leaflets.”
The list is the estimated rate of each adverse event, not side effect.
Obviously, the list of adverse events is much longer than the list of side effects.
@Pete Attkins
Thank you for the correction and clarification.
Ahh, then dear Edzard, perhaps you would be kind enough to explain to this ignorant lay-person your understanding of how this extraordinary figure was arrived at … looking forward to your detailed explanation.
that’s the ourpose of the article to which I have linked;
if you don’t understand it, I am not here to teach you to comprehend complex science, etc.
@Mike Grant
Pretty simple: for each age group, they compared mortality for vaccinated and unvaccinated people as a result of COVID-19 infection. It turns out that unvaccinated people had a much higher chance (about 1% overall) of dying from COVID than vaccinated people (about 0.05% overall). It was also clear that the chance of dying was much higher in the elderly.
Here’s a pretty good overview comparing vaccinated vs. unvaccinated:
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination
(Note that COVID mortality has since dropped significantly, as the latest variants are far less virulent, and also because most people have by now built up some level of immunity through (repeated) vaccination and infection.)
What this means is that antivaxxers (or ‘vaccine-hesitant’, if you will) are rather stupid people who not only run a much higher chance of dying themselves, but, rather more nefarious, kill other people by dissuading them from getting vaccinated. By some estimates, propaganda from antivaxx dimwits may have caused more than 250,000 avoidable deaths in the US alone.
In other words: there is a lot of evidence showing that vaccination initially caused a huge drop (up to 95%) in COVID mortality, saving millions of lives – while there is no good evidence AT ALL that those vaccines themselves have killed significant numbers of people.
Even the most serious mRNA vaccine side effect (myocarditis) caused virtually no deaths that we know of – in fact, COVID itself was 10 times as likely to cause myocarditis, and still quite deadly, even for the adolescent age group most at risk for this vaccine side effect. As in: about 1 in 18.000 got myocarditis from the vaccine, which almost always resolved without problems, while about 1 in 2,000 got myocarditis from COVID – and 1 in 8.000 died from COVID. Young people, that is, and sadly almost all unvaccinated.
John Beaudoin Sr compared one million unredacted death certificates and noticed that blood diseases went up in 2021…:
https://rumble.com/v46yduc-john-beaudoin-death-certificates.html?mref=6zof&mrefc=2
He gives direct examples of multiple federal felonies in false reporting of vaccine-death as covid-death.
when will you learn to differentiate between misinformation and information?
Who is John Beaudoin? No expert, but an ignorant crybaby.
What is rumble? A video platform, web hosting and cloud services business that provides a home for conspirators, right and alt-right.
Here is another recently published meta-analysis that highlights the importance of vaccinations against COVID: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(23)02467-4/fulltext. It is estimated that under-vaccinated individuals in all age groups are at a higher risk of severe outcomes, especially the elderly (75 or above).
Your claim “kill other people by dissuading them from getting vaccinated” is without foundation. Have you met all those millions of folks who chose not to get jabbed with a cocktail of synthetic chemicals. I have never tried to persuade ANYONE not to get jabbed, and neither have any of my un-jabbed friends and colleagues. I simply suggested to people during the pandemic that perhaps they should be vaccine CAUTIOUS (not hesitant) and conduct their own due diligence. Would you Richard really object to an individual making an informed opinion – including talking to their own GP – prior to undertaking a new and relatively untried medical treatment?
Before making such unhelpful claims in future perhaps you should stop, think, and think again.
@Mike Grant
You are of course wrong – probably because you don’t like to be confronted with the fact that you contribute to other people’s deaths. You do this by consistently painting a very negative picture of vaccines (‘a cocktail of synthetic chemicals’) without ever addressing their benefits, by your invariably derogatory comments about real medical professionals, and by outright lies – you never advised people to be cautious, let alone pointed them to objective information, and you have certainly not advised people to discuss vaccination with their GP, at least not that I can find here.
And no, those mRNA vaccines are not ‘relatively untried’. They have been tested on humans for some 15 years by now, with several trials running in the tens of thousands of volunteers before being released for general use. And ALL those trials and tests just say one thing: those mRNA vaccines are exceedingly safe and quite effective – completely contrary to the lies and nefarious suggestions that you keep spreading.
Oh, I did stop and think. And my conclusion is that antivaxxers are killing people by making them averse to potentially life-saving vaccinations. And then they try to absolve themselves from any guilt with weasel words and more lies such as yours, such as ‘vaccine cautious’ and ‘their own due diligence’.
Richard Rasker on Saturday 20 January 2024 at 11:45 said:
“…And no, those mRNA vaccines are not ‘relatively untried’. They have been tested on humans for some 15 years by now.”
No, that’s false.
@Old Bob
As usual, you have no idea what you are yapping about.
mRNA vaccine technology is not new. It has been studied for several decades, before the pandemic.
Here is a review paper on mRNA vaccines, written in 2018: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5906799/. Studies in mice started in early 90’s.
As an American, I am speaking on behalf of all of America. Despite being impeached twice and neck deep is numerous civil and criminal lawsuits, Trump remains the front runner for Republican Presidential nomination. Therefore, it can be safely assumed that half of Americans have lost their mental faculties and can be wrong often. Therefore, Richard is right and half of America is wrong.
@Old Bob
” … mRNA vaccines are not ‘relatively untried’. They have been tested on humans for some 15 years by now.”
Well, here’s a first: you actually spotted an error of mine! As it turns out, the first mRNA vaccine tests in humans took place not 15 years ago, but 22 years ago:
“[2002]
In 13 study subjects, escalating doses of PSA mRNA–transfected DCs were administered with no evidence of dose-limiting toxicity or adverse effects, including autoimmunity.”
So even these first tests of mRNA-mediated cellular antigen production did not cause any problems in the patients involved. This can be considered the first bit of evidence that mRNA vaccines are indeed safe for use in humans (although 13 test subjects is of course far too small a group for any proper safety assessment).
I stand corrected, thank you for the heads-up!
“No, that’s false.”
Indeed, it is 23 years; not “some 15 years by now”.
I can’t reply to Old Bob, so I have to add it here:
https://naturwissenschaften.ch/covid19-vaccination-explained/mrna_vaccines/ist_die_mrna_technologie_neu_
(translated with deepl.com)
[*QUOTE*]
————————————-
mRNA technology has been known for around 30 years. The first clinical trials for cancer therapy in humans were carried out over 10 years ago. The technology has therefore been in use for a long time. The fact that mRNA vaccines have become established in the fight against the coronavirus is also due to the current exceptional situation. The technical principles and applications have been studied and described for a long time, but there has been a lack of investment in the further development and application of the technology. The Covid-19 pandemic has now made these investments possible.
————————————-
[*/QUOTE*]
Its type is [modified mRNA], the thing that won its perpetrators, the Nobel. Calling the covid vaccine mRNA is a lie-by-omission.
@Old Bob
Your extreme stupidity is only exceeded by your zeal in demonstrating that stupidity.
The mRNA vaccine contains mRNA. The fact that this mRNA has been modified from the original viral mRNA does NOT mean that it isn’t mRNA any more. It is still mRNA in any particular of the definition, prompting the cellular machinery to create proteins – which is exactly what mRNA is supposed to do.
So please stop insulting human intelligence by trying to look smarter than you are.
Old Bob wrote: “Its type is [modified mRNA], the thing that won its perpetrators, the Nobel. Calling the covid vaccine mRNA is a lie-by-omission [sic].”
Old Bob is deploying semantic filibustering.
If you want to be absurd then, likewise, someone claiming that they brush their teeth with toothpaste would be lying by omission. Why? Because “toothpaste” is an abstract class or type; whereas they are, in fact, brushing their teeth with a tangible specific instance or token of “toothpaste”, identified in the usual manner along the lines of:
• manufacturer
• brand name
• model id
• variant id…
• batch number or serial number
Nobody has been vaccinated with “the covid vaccine” called “mRNA”. Nobody has been vaccinated with “the covid vaccine”.
See also:
● Type–Token Fallacy, Logically Fallacious
● Ambiguity Fallacy, Logically Fallacious
● Fallacy of amphiboly, RationalWiki
Mr. Richard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dozpAshvtsA
@John aka RG
First of all, you are lighting a smokescreen. What does an interview with Peter Gøtzsche about the pharmaceutical industry, which was conducted 9 (!) years ago, have to do with the corona vaccine issue?
Secondly, Peter Gøtzsche (as outstanding as his merits in the Cochrane Collaboration were) has drifted more and more into irrationality in recent years:
Gøtzsche’s statements should therefore be viewed with a healthy dose of skepticism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_C._G%C3%B8tzsche#Expulsion_from_Cochrane
Thirdly, John McDougall, who interviewed Gøtzsche, is also very controversial.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_A._McDougall
For all we know, the modified mRNA will stay in the Pfizer-vaccinated indefinitely. We will start to learn this officially when phase IV is finished which will be ten years too late – like all the other medical blunders, “[Science advances one funeral at a time.]”
Why would anyone of sound mind, have themselves take part in a phase III trial for something, that for the young, is harmless? Especially when you see how sympathetic the industry has been to Maddie de Garay.
thanks, OB, for being so reliably wrong;
INVALUABLE!!!
Old Bob again, and I dare say WILLFULLY, messes up.
The mRNA-vaccination was the best thing mankind could get in the situation of this pandemic. So why not take the mRNA-vaccination?
We are on a ship on the ocean, the ship is on fire, and we have two choices:
1. jump into the water – with the risk of drowning
2. get killed by the raging fire
We have only these two choices. Old Bob for sure would prefer to get roasted to coal and smoke. Water is so wet, you know…
ama on Sunday 21 January 2024 at 10:23 said:
“The mRNA-vaccination was the best thing mankind could get in the situation of this pandemic. So why not take the mRNA-vaccination?”
Because:
https://rumble.com/v3zqppa-dr.-mike-yeadons-censored-address-to-the-members-of-uk-parliament-dec-4-202.html
Old Bob posting a link to a video where an old man who seems to have forgotten to take his pills talks some laughable drivel is gonna convince everybody here, that’s for sure!
ama
I got jabbed once with the Janssen formula.(J&J). Fool me once, shame on you. Truth be told. I only took the jab because I knew the powers that be would require proof of vaccination to travel. So I intentionally selected a traditional formula jab.
However, I know many people that were not interested in the risks of a new “science” in vaccines that had limited efficacy and potential deadly side effects.
Sure, most of them got coved infected… same as many that took the jabs. But they recovered from the virus and are more than happy they didn’t get bamboozled into the pharma scam.
reliably nonsensical BS,
thanks, John RG
Ulrich Berger on Sunday 21 January 2024 at 12:02 said:
“Old Bob posting a link to a video where an old man who seems to have forgotten to take his pills talks some laughable drivel is gonna convince everybody here, that’s for sure!”
If that’s true, then you have nothing to worry about, begging the question, why did you reply?
because it was too stupid?
becuase ther is alreay so much stupidity?
because we cannot be bothered?
because replying might elevate stupidity to a level it does not deserve?
FOR THE LATTER REASON, I WILL NO LONGER REPLY TO YOUR BS
Old Bob tries to pull a fast one.
Here is real facts about Michael Yeadon:
“A REUTERS SPECIAL REPORT
The ex-Pfizer scientist who became an anti-vax hero”
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/health-coronavirus-vaccines-skeptic/
ama on Sunday 21 January 2024 at 13:30 said
[Quoting ama’s post above]
“Old Bob tries to pull a fast one.
Here is real facts about Michael Yeadon:
“A REUTERS SPECIAL REPORT
The ex-Pfizer scientist who became an anti-vax hero”
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/health-coronavirus-vaccines-skeptic/
[end of ama quote]
[Quote from Reuters]
“…that the vaccines could cause infertility in women.”
[end of quote]
It’s worse than that:
https://www.trialsitenews.com/a/ask-why-429-moms-died-a305d67b
But no one in Authority questions the excess mortality in the highly vaccinated countries – why? Because by keeping blind, they “plausibly deny”, that, “There is no proof.”
Old Bob is a forger.
[Quote from Reuters]
“…that the vaccines could cause infertility in women.”
[end of quote]
The full sentence is:
[*QUOTE*]
———————————
Even bolder was their argument for doing so: They speculated, without providing evidence, that the vaccines could cause infertility in women.
———————————
[*/QUOTE*]
This is what he willfully suppressed: “without providing evidence”.
Such behaviour is typical for anti-vaxxers.
“Old Bob is a forger”
TRUE!
Old Bob:
[*QUOTE*]
But no one in Authority questions the excess mortality in the highly vaccinated countries – why? Because by keeping blind, they “plausibly deny”, that, “There is no proof.”
[*/QUOTE*]
Old Bob is a liar.
Fact is: The German government denies excess mortality. How do they do that? Answer: By taking the higher death numbers as the new norm.
Fact is: The excess mortality hit differently in different countries. Just the very countries, which could start early with vaccinating, have an older population. This happened in Italy, at the beginning of the catastrophe in Europe. But wait! The mass of dead occurred BEFORE begin of the vaccinations!
Old Bob really is a lame duck with his stupid forgery and lies. What is his real name? I guess he is someone who we already know, one of the known anti-vaxxers.
So, before I forget: Here is a good site about anti-vaxxers and their lies: http://www.pharmamafia.com
“Old Bob is a liar”
TRUE!
Compared to placebo, most vaccines reduce, or likely reduce, the proportion of participants with confirmed symptomatic COVID-19, and for some, there is high-certainty evidence that they reduce severe or critical disease. There is probably little or no difference between most vaccines and placebo for serious adverse events. Over 300 registered RCTs are evaluating the efficacy of COVID-19 vaccines, and this review is updated regularly on the COVID-NMA platform (covid-nma.com). Implications for practice Due to the trial exclusions, these results cannot be generalized to pregnant women, individuals with a history of SARS-CoV-2 infection, or immunocompromized people. Most trials had a short follow-up and were conducted before the emergence of variants of concern. Implications for research Future research should evaluate the long-term effect of vaccines, compare different vaccines and vaccine schedules, assess vaccine efficacy and safety in specific populations, and include outcomes such as preventing long COVID-19. Ongoing evaluation of vaccine efficacy and effectiveness against emerging variants of concern is also vital.
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36473651/]
This systematic review and meta-analysis suggests that several personal protective and social measures, including handwashing, mask wearing, and physical distancing are associated with reductions in the incidence covid-19. Public health efforts to implement public health measures should consider community health and sociocultural needs, and future research is needed to better understand the effectiveness of public health measures in the context of covid-19 vaccination.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9423125/]
Maybe you will believe the Market?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/2023/12/13/pfizer-stock-sinks-to-10-year-low-why-investors-have-soured-on-covid-era-giant/
please consider your contributions on this subject finished
no need to post more
thanks
That Guardian story, Mike.
It’s about the AZ vaccine.
You know. The one that was found to carry a small risk of side-effects, some fatal.
Which was spotted by the doctors who monitor things very closely. Not by foaming antivax loons.
And what happened?
The vaccine was withdrawn.
You really do need to check that there’s water in the pool before you jump in.
Lenny, with the greatest respect! Yes I am aware this particular vaccine was withdrawn – that’s my point, don’t you get it? Your silly comment “foaming antivax loons” is not fit for serious debate. The serious side effects and fatalities experienced by previously healthy individuals will offer no comfort to those directly affected and their families who were told by UK Gov & Associates that all Covid vaccines were ‘safe’.
And do you know the accepted definition of the word ‘safe’? It means free and protected from harm or injury.
@Mike Grant
Antivaxx loons such as you have caused a vastly greater number of deaths by telling people that vaccines are unsafe. Their families are devastated, because they know that the death of their loved ones almost certainly could have been prevented.
I see antivaxx stupidity looming … OK, lay it on me!
According to your ‘accepted definition’, no vaccine can ever be considered ‘safe’, because there is always a risk of side effects and even death.
This does, however, not mean that vaccines are ‘unsafe’, but that (your interpretation of) this definition is just stupid – because according to your ‘accepted definition’ literally NOTHING can be considered ‘safe’. Drinking a glass of water? Unsafe, as it is a choking hazard, killing thousands every hear. A child cradled in its mother’s arms? Unsafe, as countless children are unintentionally smothered every year, e.g. when the mother falls asleep.
The antivaxx crap you are spreading? Unsafe, as it has killed hundreds of thousands of Americans already.
Vaccines are among the safest things on this planet, killing or seriously injuring less than one in every 10 million recipients. This is far safer than e.g. contracting COVID when unvaccinated, which initially killed one in every 100 patients.
Richard Rasker on Friday 19 January 2024 at 15:37 said:
“…Vaccines are among the safest things on this planet, killing or seriously injuring less than one in every 10 million recipients…”
53% of Americans disagree with you:
More Than Half Suspect COVID-19 Vaccines Have Caused Deaths:
https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/public_surveys/more_than_half_suspect_covid_19_vaccines_have_caused_deaths
yes, many Americans also vote Trump
not very bright, I’d say.
Meanwhile the other 47% “[who troubleth their own house shall inherit the wind: and the fool shall be servant to the wise of heart.]”
congratulations!
you again won the dumbest comment of the week.
@OldBob
Ah, a nice informal fallacy old enough and common enough to have a Latin name.
@Old Bob
What this tells us is that misinformation is unfortunately very widespread, in particular among large groups of Americans.
Which is not unexpected, given that especially republican politicians, representing about half of all Americans, have fully embraced lying, hateful rhetoric and fear mongering as a way to gain more power, with utter disregard for the health and well-being of the actual people. And yes, this includes some of the highest republican health authorities lying about COVID vaccines.
The reality is that, yes, COVID vaccines have undoubtedly caused deaths – but only very few. As I said before, everything we do (and don’t!) comes with a certain risk. For vaccination, this risk is almost negligible.
Richard Rasker on Saturday 20 January 2024 at 10:19 said:
“…about half of all Americans, have fully embraced lying, hateful rhetoric and fear mongering as a way to gain more power, with utter disregard for the health and well-being of the actual people….”
So Richard Rasker is right, and over 150,000,000 Americans are wrong.
@Old Bob
Not exactly.
It’s not so much me who is right, but 15 million doctors and medical scientists – the people whose insights I merely repeat. But yes, those 150 million Americans are wrong. Dead wrong, and in several hundred thousand cases also dead, as a result of being wrong about COVID vaccines.
And unfortunately, these people are wrong (and sometimes dead) because they listened to antivaxxers.
“150,000,000 Americans” < 2% world population.
@Old Bob
“A very evil compulsion is massification. If many people believe the same thing, they easily come to the conclusion: Fuck off, millions of flies can’t be wrong.”
-Konrad Lorenz, aus DER SPIEGEL 45/1988
In other COVID related fresh-off-the-press meta-analysis news, use of HCQ to treat COVID is associated with a higher mortality rate. To no one’s surprise, the cure in this case turned out to be worse than the disease.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/12/hydroxychloroquine-covid-increase-chance-death-trump
Moral of the story is: Do not take off-the-cuff medical advice doled out by Trump. To all the antivaxx loons: if you are debating whether you should inject yourself with bleach, think again!
to synthesize mRNA is a quite old job. In 1976 I finished my diploma in chemistry. I made m-RNA, a modified AUG the starting triplett in protein synthesis. ok it was not very stable, because it was modified A-thio-U-G. It was sensitive ti light , oxygen and it was radioactive. But I only want to state that working with mRNA ist a 50yrs old method.
Antivaxxers often claim that m-RNA technology is unsave and brand new- thats not correct.
The number of recognized vaccine injuries in Germany is extremely low. The same applies to the number of applicants. Both will not increase significantly once the outstanding cases have been dealt with.
https://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/medizin/corona-impfung-bislang-impfschaeden-bei-467-menschen-anerkannt-a-9577fc8c-3815-4e46-8792-a28d7480500a
https://vaersanalysis.info/2021/12/13/using-cms-whistleblower-data-to-approximate-the-under-reporting-factor-for-vaers/
@
RG“John”Apparently, it’s not just OB who has a patent on stupidity.
Do you really believe what this rabidly antivaxx “VAERS analysis” blog is making up? Yes, VAERS has on average a huge under-reporting of adverse events (AE’s) – and it has been explained countless times already that not only is this under-reporting fully expected, but also why it is not a problem, and why it certainly does not support antivaxx claims that it ‘proves’ that vaccines are far more harmful than what doctors and scientists say.
But here goes once again.
Antivaxx idiots (a.k.a. antivaxx ‘whistleblowers’) have found evidence that on average, only 1%-2% of AE’s after vaccination are reported. Which leads them to conclude that in reality, vaccination causes 100 times more side effects than reported, including very serious AE’s such as permanent harm and death. Which is very, very dumb in almost every respect.
Yes, the premise is correct that on average, only a few percent of AE’s are reported. And this is the only correct thing about this, for want of a better word, ‘reasoning’ from dumb antivaxxers. Because:
– AE’s are very explicitly NOT by definition caused by vaccination. VAERS itself warns for this false causality inference on almost every frigging page – yet antivaxx dimwits keep suggesting that every reported AE is caused by vaccination.
– The overwhelming majority of (real) AE’s caused by vaccination are not only completely harmless, but also fully expected. Which means that the overwhelming majority of people will not bother to report those AE’s. This is the main cause of this ‘huge under-reporting’ that dumb antivaxxers keep getting their knickers in a twist about.
– More serious AE’s are reported far more frequently. And healthcare workers are even obliged by law to report certain serious events after vaccination. No, not only ’caused by vaccination’ but also ‘after vaccination’.
So no, there is in fact no usable ‘under-reporting factor’ for VAERS, as this number steeply decreases with the severity of the actual AE’s themselves. Which also means that this number does not tell us that vaccines are more harmful than previously thought.
Anyway, given your total ignorance on the subject of vaccination as well as your propensity to mindlessly parrot lies and nonsense from other ignoranuses(*), I’d say you better stop commenting altogether. Because right now, you’re only making yourself look foolish, time and again.
*: Also see proctophasia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_Adverse_Event_Reporting_System#Limitations_and_abuse
About VAERS Analysis:
You keep shooting yourself in the foot with your so-called sensational revelations, “John”. How do you live with a vacuum in your skull instead of a brain?
I repeat, I was vaccinated last month.
What part of “I got jabbed” do you not understand ?
@ John a.k.a RG
What part of “Regardless of what it quacks, if it consistently posts antivax misinformation, then it must be an antivaxxer duck” do you not understand?
Ahhh yes. I get it.
Regardless of vaccination status. If you speak against the narrative… you become the target.
What a pathetic life you live.
Talker
Imagine a vaccine so safe, you have to be forced or threatened to take it. For a disease so deadly that you have to be tested to know if you have it.
@John a.k.a RG
Delusional nitwits think they are fighting demons, but little do they know the demons they are fighting are imaginary. Your posts nicely illustrate that.
@ Talker
Exactly !
And YOU
are that delusional nitwit.
ok, that’s enough, John RG
I will give you a rest
The truths (conspiracy theories) of the pandemic is becoming evident.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxUKm4j68po
I prefer to get my truth from the peer reviewd literature and the last guy I would consult is your source.
Chris Cuomo is just as surprised as you, but now it’s mainstream:
https://vigilantnews.com/post/chris-cuomos-physician-destroys-the-safe-effective-narrative-on-live-tv-video/
yes, misinformation has sadly become ‘mainstream’
Correct – so now MSM must censor itself for it’s own misinformation: it can’t have it both ways.
@OB
You can’t have it both ways either – promote antivax misinformation and criticize MSM for publishing the same. You and your fellow antivaxx stooges are too dumb to realize the hypocrisy of your own statements. But, that is okay, you all are forgiven. If you are smart you wouldn’t fall for the misinformation to begin with.
Also, Cuomo’s double board certified doctor owns a wellness practice called Terrain Health and offer acupuncture, ozone and infusion therapies: https://terrainhealth.org/meet-dr-rose/. I hope Dr. Rose didn’t name her practice after the long debunked Terrain Theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germ_theory_denialism#Terrain_theory. Cuomo is too dumb to realize that his doctor is a quack in doctor’s clothing.
Eventually MSM will start to report this:
https://rumble.com/v4ayuku-763-celebrities-and-athletes-dead-or-injured-from-the-covid-vaccines-eviden.html
@Old Bob
Oh, they already do report those things: as examples of misinformation and FUD spread by idiots and liars.
And as long as you exclusively parrot said idiots and liars without even one critical thought of your own, you are one of them – and it is in fact a waste of time to read, let alone respond to your comments here. All the same thanks for giving us an update of your mental state – again nothing learned, nothing changed.
@Antediluvian Robert
For you for the umpteenth time: Rumble’s cloud services business hosts Truth Social, and the video platform is popular among American right and far-right users.[7] Rumble has been described as “alt-tech”.
This means that the contents of this platform are generally destined for the trash can
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumble_(company)
Vigilant news
Questionable Reasoning: Propaganda, Conspiracy, Pseudoscience, Poor Sourcing, False Claims, Lack of Transparency
Bias Rating: EXTREME RIGHT
Factual Reporting: LOW
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/vigilant-news-bias/
Largest Vaccine Study Ever Reveals What the “Conspiracy Theorists” Have Said All Along:
https://vigilantfox.substack.com/p/largest-vaccine-study-ever-reveals
please reference the original study
Elsevier:
COVID-19 vaccines and adverse events of special interest: A multinational Global Vaccine Data Network (GVDN) cohort study of 99 million vaccinated individuals:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X24001270?via%3Dihub
“our study confirmed previously identified rare safety signals following COVID-19 vaccination and contributed evidence on several other important outcomes”
You might need a course ‘learning to read properly”.
@Antediluvian Robert
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X24001270
Translated for dummies, anti-vaxxer and conspiracy theorists: Nothing extraordinary was discovered, no “scandal” was covered up, but further studies are desired in order to gain an even better understanding of very rare side effects of the vaccination.
RPGNo1 on Monday 26 February 2024 at 10:17 said:
“…no “scandal” was covered up,…”
Where have you been these last few years? On another planet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcHmQKKH2F8
@Antediluvian Robert
How much more so-called “evidence” do you want to present?
You have become completely entangled in conspiracy theories, can no longer detach yourself from them and are proud of it. That is why we are laughing at you.
😀 😀 😀
RPGNo1 on Monday 26 February 2024 at 12:53 said:
“…You have become completely entangled in conspiracy theories, can no longer detach yourself from them and are proud of it. That is why we are laughing at you.”
It’s not as funny as you think it is (credit: Tom Renz):
https://tomrenz.substack.com/p/arguments-for-halting-covid-19-vaccines
@Antediluvian confused Robert
QED. Who the fuck is Tom Renz? A mediocre corona-denying shyster begging for donations.
This species also exist in Germany. They are called Rainer Fuellmich or Markus Haintz.
😀
Never underestimate attorneys at law:
QLD Supreme Court declares Police and Ambulance vaccine mandates unlawful:
https://www.rebelnews.com/qld_supreme_court_declares_police_and_ambulance_vaccine_mandates_unlawful?utm_campaign=ay_ftf_qldmandates_022724
“Rebel news”
Questionable Reasoning: Conspiracy Theories, Pseudoscience, Propaganda, Poor Sourcing, Failed Fact Checks
Bias Rating: RIGHT
Factual Reporting: MIXED
Country: Canada
MBFC’s Country Freedom Rating: EXCELLENT FREEDOM
Media Type: Website
Traffic/Popularity: Medium Traffic
MBFC Credibility Rating: LOW CREDIBILITY
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-rebel/
Come on, it’s your turn again, @Bobby. Expose yourself again. 😉
Medical Staff Offers Assisted Suicide To Canadian Woman Paralyzed From COVID Shots:
https://gregreese.substack.com/p/medical-staff-offers-assisted-suicide
[quote]
Doctor, “…most likely it’s gonna be probably from the vaccine, if I’m using my gut impression here, from the vaccine”
Kayla, “So other people have had it?”
Doctor, “Many people have had it!”
[end of quote]
OB has been rushing to the bottom for a while – it seems he has just reached it.
There is no bottom for @Bobby. He is moving into the negative zone now.
From ther depths of the negative zone, a cartoon by Anne Gibbons:
https://merylnass.substack.com/p/what-did-the-nurses-see-a-must-read
Peer reviewing nincompoops are at the root of the problem.
You suit yourself. I choose my sources. Russell Brand revealed all of his data sources, perhaps you didn’t view the material. He is just the messenger, not the source.
your star witness:
“On 3 November 2023, a lawsuit was filed against Brand under New York’s Adult Survivors Act, which allows victims of sexual offences a period of one year to file a suit.”
“Columnist Charlotte Lytton accused Brand of following Joe Rogan “down the rabbit hole of online misinformation” by pandering to the anti-vaccine movement and spreading pro-Russian conspiracy theories about Russia’s invasion of Ukraine,[226] for example promoting unfounded claims of US bioweapon labs in Ukraine.[227] Elon Musk defended Brand from media criticism on Twitter, saying: “I watched some of his videos. Ironically, he seemed more balanced & insightful than those condemning him! The groupthink among major media companies is more troubling. There should be more dissent.”[228] When YouTube took down one of his videos in September 2022, citing its policy on medical misinformation,[229] he moved his channel to Rumble, where he launched a new daily live show, Stay Free with Russell Brand.[230][231]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Brand
AND WHAT MAKES YOU THINK HIS UNDERSTANDING OF SCIENCE IS ANY BETTER THAN YOURS [namely zero]?
Dear John,
I commend you for your hardcore antivaxx stoogery and bottomless dumbassery.
In your case, you don’t choose your sources. The sources choose you, because you have zero critical thinking skills and believe in every idiotic conspiracy theory out there. The big-antivaxx knows this and deliberately targets people like you. They make you think that you are choosing your sources but you have already been chosen by them for your Grade A idiocy. They lure you into their rabbit hole and once you enter you don’t have the skills to dig yourself out and are forever trapped in the echo chamber of antivaxx misinformation.
Yours truly,
Talker
You can fool some of the people some of the time.
https://merylnass.substack.com/p/what-did-the-nurses-see-a-must-read?fbclid=IwAR1Z0x7Fqk7W22LvzDQ5OaUzjs1vA5Q-EhV_fdHPAhelyoH_Ojx1hAzYiF8
Occasionally a person may fall for conspiracy theories, but it takes a special kind of gullible idiot to fall for conspiracy theories all the damn time.
And the meta information on the URLs they post suggests they are just jumping from one loony site or mailing list to the next, mindlessly believing the loonacy.
The algorithm has caught them in a ‘loony-loop’!
@John
Well, your buddy @OldBoB has linked the same text. Next time,you two should coordinate better so that you do not spread the same ridiculous nonsense from your anti-vaxxer bubble.
https://edzardernst.com/2024/01/covid-vaccinations-reduced-death-rates-in-europe-by-57/#comment-150508
One rather reassuring thought is that the spreaders of this antivaccine FUD must make up ever more outlandish rage-inducing nonsense in order to keep their readership engaged. This means that sooner rather than later, they will all end up in the Land of Lunacy – mostly on their own, because no sane person would touch them any more even with a 10 foot pole.
Examples:
https://www.respectfulinsolence.com/2024/03/01/the-ultimate-antivax-conspiracy-theory/
https://www.respectfulinsolence.com/2024/03/04/antivax-bizarro-world-view-of-vaccine-safety/
You guys are so dumb! This stuff is coming in at a high-daily-rate, the tide-turned at least a year ago, but you don’t see it (the elephant-in-the-room-massive-corruption):
https://www.skirsch.com/covid/TimeSeriesLetterDiamond.pdf
The excess deaths are caused by anything-but-the-vaccine and if that does not work, then just lie statistically!
“You guys are so dumb!”
Take a look in the mirror. You are the stupid one who trusts an anti-vaxxer and has built his life entirely on bullshit. 😀
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Kirsch#Vaccine_misinformation
@Old Bob
Thank you for demonstrating my point by (once again) referring to one of the craziest and most stubbornly ignorant antivaxx loons around 🙂
The only thing keeping Kirsch’s antivaxx madhouse from imploding is his money.
sorry OB – I will not allow you to post any more of such nonsense.
Don’t dispare from suffering different viewpoints, help is here:-
Man In Critical Condition After Hearing Slightly Different Viewpoint:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrz8YQunbOc
@Antediluvian Robert
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Babylon_Bee
I find a comparison with the waste bin Fox News unflattering. But considering your limited analytical skills and your proximity to anti-science and conspiracy-theory trash, the “Babylonian bee” fits you like a glove.
Kirsch?
Oh please. The man’s an inconsequential and scientifically-ignorant imbecile who receives attention only from the windowlickers like yourself who continue to give him Substack money. Remind us what happened with the paper he got published in Cureus?
Retracted.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10897748/
@RPGNo1
I do not read every post on this blog forum, especially from many of the frequent posters. That said, I do enjoy the post from Old Bob.
I posted the link not only because it fits my point of view, no it was more than that. I have not read the book… yet. However, I did read all the comments posted in response to the link by those that experienced for themselves firsthand. Or witnesses that worked in the hospitals the carnage of dead bodies that was a result of bad pandemic policies. In addition, I went to Amazon and read the comments posted by those that did read the book.
These testimonies line up with what we lived from 2020-2022…and beyond. I support prosecuting those involved with crimes against humanity, beginning with Anthony Fauci.
@John
Um, no. It is in fact antivaxxers such as you and OB who should be prosecuted for crimes against humanity, because YOU are co-responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths in the US alone – deaths that for the most part could have been avoided. had people not believed the FUD, lies and misinformation from people like you.
Fauci is a hero, who did a sterling job under extremely difficult circumstances – no, I’m not (only) talking about the pandemic, but about his direct boss at the time: an unhinged, narcissistic and compulsively lying sociopath(*), who went out of his way to play down the seriousness of the pandemic, repeatedly telling people that there was nothing to worry about, and, completely disregarding that people were dying by the thousands every single day promised that “it’ll all be over by Easter”. It’s an absolute miracle how Fauci succeeded in getting measures under way to curb the spread of the disease, while not antagonizing his boss. He was in fact one of the very few people high up in government who wasn’t fired for not paying allegiance to the orange dictator.
*: As well as a hypocrite and a coward – when he was tested positive for COVID himself, apparently his first question to his doctors was “Am I dying?”. No, he wasn’t, in part because he received the best healthcare possible, including hugely expensive ($100,000) monoclonal antibody treatment. No, not hydroxychloroquine or injected bleach as he himself suggested earlier.
Listen to you in your rage and hatred. No wonder Fauci is your hero, and Trump your demon.
@Old Bob
What rage and hatred? I’m merely stating facts. Please feel free to point out which one of those facts is untrue.
In April 2023, Fauci received the highest honour in public health. I’d say this oddly contrasts with nonsensical accusations of ‘crimes’ by antivaxxers such as John …
@Richard Rasker
I revert to my old argument.
If the covid vaccines were so effective, how is it that those who chose not to accept the experimental medical treatment are responsible for harm to those that took the jab that was purported to be 97% effective ? Listen to yourself. According to your theory, antivaxxers should have disappeared from the globe, while those that accepted the jab should not have died. However, the facts do not support this. Many that took the jab have died without getting infected, while most that did not accept the treatment continue living. What gives ?
The argument by vaccine proponents always wants to focus on the narrative that the vaccine prevents deaths. Deaths of the unvaccinated has nothing to do with spreading the virus to those that are assumed to be protected.
So yes, patients that got infected without protection (vaccine) have a higher rate of death, but mostly when the patients were already in poor health with existing co-morbidities. In other words, they were already subject to pending death. What about all the younger people that were not at risk of death that took the jab and suffered the consequence of sudden heart attack.
@John
Read: ‘I shall repeat the lies and FUD I have been spreading so far.’ So that is what you do. It all has been debunked many times before, so I’m not going to go over them again.
The gist of the matter is that antivaxxers like you are needlessly killing people by dissuading them from protecting themselves.
@Richard Rasker
Wrong again Sir.
“antivaxxers like you are needlessly killing people by dissuading them from protecting themselves.”
I have never dissuaded anybody from a medical treatment they wanted (other than my wife), including covid vaccines. I do have family members that took mRNA jabs. The thing is most of them are regretting it now. So I AM regretting not “dissuading” them… but that was their choice.
And why are you bullshitting on this blog, if not for persuading the public?
He is not trying to persuade anyone because no one in the history of Man was ever persuaded to something other than their beliefs – to the contrary: for anyone mildly interested, without much emotional aspect, it is quite pleasant to find out more from other people’s ideas, in a quiet exchange of experiences, and examples.
@
RG“John”Yes you have, even if I take your word for it that you didn’t (intend to) dissuade people from getting vaccinated.
Point of the matter is that you are continuously spreading misinformation, lies and FUD with only one message: “vaccines are quite harmful”. This lie, especially if repeated often enough and vocal enough, and by enough people, will make people shun vaccines, which inevitably will cause the death of a certain number of those people. What you did or didn’t intend is irrelevant. What is relevant is that those messages have contributed to the death of people who believed those lies and FUD. Several hundred thousand Americans alone have died because they declined vaccination, almost exclusively because of the very same misinformation that you are spreading too – which makes you in part responsible for their deaths.
@Richard Rasker
John… Youure-Killlinngg-graandmaaa ! … says those that support mandates for jabs.
C’mon Richard, tell me that the pro-vaccine argument is not prevalent here at this blog. Anybody that does not regularly participate here has the other argument presented in excess. So readers have a choice that they can make for themselves. I’m not indoctrinating anybody any more than you are. You are pushing jabs that have proven to be questionable to health, and ineffective. NEVER in history have so many patients that gladly got vaccinated according to recommendation are regretting it, and that has nothing to do with me, but from their own experiences.
Grandma was already sick and dying for the crap food from the SAD diet. The diet and food that led here to obesity, diabetes and metabolic disease… among other problems. And those chronic illnesses led grandma to the lousy medical doctors that prescribe her eight different medications per day from the pharma corps that don’t give a damn about anything except grandma’s money. And those meds are contributing even more to dis-ease… from all the side effects.
So don’t point the finger at me until you first complain to the US government, CDC & FDA who are supporting the SAD diet. Also, to the pharma industry… and the AMA.
Co-morbidities were the reason for the high death rates.
@Johnny aka RG
You probably did kill granny, early on during the pandemic, when you were running around mask-less and spewing covid ladened droplets into the air, in the name of individual freedumbs.
@
RG“John”You just can’t stop lying, can you? It is VERY clear:
– COVID vaccines have saved many millions of lives, and yes, also in people without co-morbidities and children – especially at the moment of introduction, when healthcare was near collapse, it showed 95% efficacy in preventing serious disease and death.
– COVID vaccines have proven themselves VERY safe, over and over again. The newest study shows that more or less serious side effects are both very rare (as in: one in every couple of hundred thousand doses administered) as well as self-limiting in almost all cases. Maybe a couple of hundred or so deaths or cases of permanent injury can be positively attributed to COVID vaccination, on literally BILLIONS of doses.
If you want to call this ‘questionable to health’, then you should absolutely go out of your mind about people drinking a glass of water or going out shopping – as even those mundane activities are far riskier than getting vaccinated.
– Overall, COVID killed about 1 in every 100 or so unvaccinated people and left at least 15 in every 100 people with lasting health damage, including young and previously healthy people – almost all of which could have been prevented.
So yes, spreading lies like COVID vaccines being ‘questionable to health’ absolutely killed lots of people most of whom would still be alive today otherwise. And you share responsibility for their deaths. The rest of your comment is a fine example of whataboutism.
But tell me, why is it that you want lots of people to die in a rather ghastly way, delirious and choking in their own fluids? Are you by any chance involved in the conspiracy to get rid of the old, weak and poor, so that people like you have more breathing space on this planet? And/or are you paid by SCAM tycoons (who are of course also into this conspiracy) to further their business?
Flawed data, financial interests and BigPharma influencing healthcare decision making was the title of one letter to ministers from the parliamentary group (APPG) on pandemic response consisting of 20 investigating MPs and members of the house of Lords.
This investigation has now moved onto the licensing of Covid vaccines by the MHRA. This group will be aware of all the supporting evidence for Covid vaccines including the report stated in this blogpost concluding with the 57% reduction in death rates from Covid.
https://appgpandemic.org/news/third-mhra-letter
Obviously MPs have had lots of letters making all sorts of allegations about pandemic responses so an investigation in to everything that went on is required.
It will be interesting to see their report.
The author of that letter, the MP Graham Stringer, seems to have an interesting history as a denialist. According to wikipedia:
‘In 2009, Stringer denied the existence of dyslexia, calling it “a cruel fiction” invented by “the education establishment” to divert blame for illiteracy from “their eclectic and incomplete methods for instruction”‘
and
‘He is a trustee of the Global Warming Policy Foundation, an organisation which promotes climate change denialism.’
So perhaps its true to form he’s getting involved with covid denialism.
The parliamentary group are investigating the pandemic response. We dont know what the report will say which in any case would have to be approved by a majority. One person will not be responsible for any outcome.
If Graham Stringer has anything negative to say about Covid Vaccines then he will have to provide evidence of this to the group who can then evaluate this. WHO, CDC, MHRA all approved Covid vaccines so you could say that some strong evidence is required if any so called Covid denialist claims are made.
Meanwhile we have a democratic process that will involve some evaluation of Covid vaccines. Vaccines have been subject to endless research and evaluations both past and present so this is nothing new.
Any group of MPs can form a ‘parliamentary group’; its not like a public enquiry, royal commission, judical review or parliamentary enquiry where there is an expectation of a non-partisan chair, evidence from different sources, independent experts etc. Neither is it like a jury where members are chosen at random, so as to reduce the likelyhood of bias.
In this case it seems to be of a self-selected group of already biased covid deniers. You might not know whats going to be in any report, but I can make a good guess – and you’re welcome to come back and prove me wrong when and if its published – based on the titles of the press releases from their website:
“MPs examine whether Ofcom’s coronavirus guidance amounted to censorship”
“Covid inquiry core participants too narrow and weighted towards groups that favour lockdowns, MPs told”
“MPs told there is no strong evidence masks prevent covid transmission”
“Mask mandates were a mistake”
“Cross-party MPs told lockdowns caused more damage than Covid”
“Cross-party politicians told mass testing of healthy children is ‘harmful, invasive and unevidenced'”
Too bad for @OldBob, @John and all the other corona deniers and anti-vaxxers. A 62-year-old German has been vaccinated against corona 217 times (!) within 29 months. He is still alive and well. 😀
Translated with DeepL
https://www.spiegel.de/gesundheit/coronavirus-mann-laesst-sich-217-mal-gegen-covid-19-impfen-a-830dcb64-6f25-4c2e-becb-7049a5e046fb
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(24)00134-8/fulltext
@RPGNo1
This claim is a bit vague.
The article claims the man took the jab for nine months essentially every other day. I call BS on that.
“According to his own statements, the 62-year-old man had been vaccinated against Corona 217 times for personal reasons, 130 vaccinations within nine months have been officially confirmed by the public prosecutor’s investigation. Eight different vaccines were vaccinated, including different mRNA vaccines, explained Kilian Schober from the Chair of Microbiology and Infection Immunology. What reasons prompted the man to get the numerous vaccinations, Schober could not say when asked.”
Beyond that, it states that he took eight different vaccines, including MRNA jabs. But it does not specify exactly which vaccines, or exactly how many times he took mRNA jabs. Those who oppose the covid vaccines are primarily opposed to the mRNA vaccines. I took the Janssen vaccine. This article is suspiciously vague.
@John a.k.a RG
I call BS on your BS calling. What is wrong with taking the jab every other day for nine months? It is perfectly safe! You want proof? The man is still alive and kicking. The article is not vague, it is the best article there is and attests to the safety of the jab. So far I took it 5 times and I am healthier than a horse. Janssen vaccine sucks, no wonder why you are whining about jabs! You took the wrong one buddy boy! Suck to be you, RG! Now, go look for Chupacabra or little green men or big foot.
Strange, isn’t it? People like “John” have no problem at all believing nincompoops like Steve Kirsch when they claim that COVID vaccines killed 14 million people, and that all governments and health agencies around the world are conspiring to keep this secret yada yada yada.
But when one guy gets hundreds of COVID shots in order to sell on the vaccination cards (at least initially), it’s all of a sudden BS.
@Talker
“Janssen vaccine sucks, no wonder why you are whining about jabs!”
No, I took the jab that I specifically wanted. I couldn’t care less about the efficacy. All the jabs were only 50% effective after three months. So, the fact that the Janssen vaccine was less effective was for a reason. ONLY ONE JAB compared to two,… which is exactly what I wanted. Patients that took only one Pfizer jab were not even considered fully vaccinated. I took the jab to get a vaccine record so I could travel… nothing more.
I tested positive twice for covid, once before vaccination and once after vaccination. In truth, the covid infection for me was less than most flu viruses I’ve had.
YOU took the wrong jab…. buddy. I pity you.
You are talking rubbish. The Janssen vaccine was deliberately developed so that one injection SHOULD be sufficient for immunisation. However, the immune protection is significantly weaker than the double or triple immunisation (as recommend in 2021) using AstraZeneca, Moderna or BioNTech. This fact was also communicated many times by Janssen and the health authorities.
For Germany, this means that the Robert Koch Institute assumes that the effectiveness of the Jcovden vaccine is lower than that of the other vaccines authorised in Germany.
For this reason, the Standing Committee on Vaccination (STIKO) recommends improving vaccination protection after a dose of the Covid-19 vaccine from Johnson & Johnson with an additional dose of an mRNA vaccine. People under 30 years of age should receive the Comirnaty (Biontech/Pfizer) vaccine as a second dose, while people aged 30 and over can receive Comirnaty or Spikevax (Moderna) as a second vaccination.
A booster vaccination is also recommended at least three months after the second vaccination. The booster should also be given with an mRNA vaccine.
Due to the reasons and disadvantages mentioned above, the Janssen vaccine now plays virtually no role among corona vaccinations. YOU took the wrong jab, pal. I laugh at you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janssen_COVID-19_vaccine
@John aka RG
I took 5 mrna jabs and have been infected ZERO times. You took one non-mrna jab and got infected TWICE. I know math is not your strong suit but you are right, getting infected TWICE is better than not getting infected at all. 🤣😂
@RPGNo1
“Due to the reasons and disadvantages mentioned above, the Janssen vaccine now plays virtually no role among corona vaccinations.”
Exactly
You miss my point again, I WASN”T looking for protection via vaccination. I was anticipating the mandate, which I correctly predicted for travel and other public mingling.
My other point is that the Janssen vaccine WAS approved by many countries, so then they ALL made mistakes in the approval. If they removed the vaccine from the market, it was because it failed in both safety and efficacy.
How many people got ill from the jab ? , and how many died due to a failed vaccine that was net sufficiently effective ? So much for the testing process, and THAT is why the public at large is now vaccine hesitant.
And one more thing, your German pal that is reported to have been jabbed so many times proves nothing. That is a sample of one. Perhaps you could replicate his doing and report back here in a year or two.
@John
Despite those draconian mandates you talk about all the time, to this day there are many people who remained unvaccinated (zero jabs) who are leading normal lives, that is of course if they managed to survive a covid infection. If you so strongly believed in remaining unvaxxed, you would have easily gotten away with not getting jabbed at all. Yep, you are that dumb!
@”Truther” John
Wrong. Janssen’s vaccine is neither faulty nor bad. It is definitely much better than the Russian Sputnik V or the Chinese products or no vaccine at all. Moderna, Biontech and AstraZeneca are simply better.
Wrong again. The approval of the vaccine was never withdrawn or questioned by the authorities. It just no longer plays a practical role on the market because, well, see my comment above.
Very very few. Many more people have become very ill, died or are still suffering from Long Covid because they have not been vaccinated.
I know I am not going to convince you, because the lies you are spreading here are burned into your brain. But I will let them go unchallenged, because disseminators of false information like you must not be allowed to have the last word.
@John
If you do not trust the Spiegel, just read the Lancet article that I also linked to.
But be careful, the article is peer-reviewed and published in one of the world’s most prestigious medical journals. It will NOT help your belief in the dubious social media accounts and troll reports in which laypeople and conspiracy theorists report terrible things about coronavirus and vaccinations.
😉
Oh come on RPGNo1. Don’t you know? Those scientists are in the pocket of big pharma. That peer-reviewed article was bought and paid for by the pharma bosses with deep pockets.
Oh dear talker, don’t you have faith in our British parliamentary democracy? I have no reason to suspect that 20 MPs and Peers are collectively a bunch of conspiracy theorists. Just make sure that you don’t become one.
Dear JK,
They may not be conspiracy theorists but they are politicians. If some of their constituents scream bloody murder about vaccines, they are obligated to put on a show. Beside, one would be an idiot if one were to draw conclusions from what politicians are doing, especially when it is comes to complicated science-y things like vaccines. Have I become a conspiracy theorist yet?
This group is reporting on pandemic responses There are lots of issues and it is not all about vaccines, although a few science wannabe conspiracy theorists on here will delude themselves that it is. There is the following reasonable statement on the APPG website.
The APPG will examine evidence from scientists, health professionals, individuals and organisations from both sides of the debate.
Ah..yes, both sides. On one side you have health professionals and scientists who spent decades studying and researching various aspects of human health and disease. On the other side we have loons like Kirsh, RFK Jr et. al. and their foot soldiers like Old Bob and John. And yes, politicians who are largely lay persons when it comes to disease and healthcare should examine evidence presented by both sides and make decisions that effects millions of people.
You know about Maddie De Garay, rignt?
Yes, we know.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/peter-gotzsche-teams-with-an-antivaxxer-to-exaggerate-the-harms-of-covid-19-vaccines/
Ah, Steve Kirsch again. The guru you adore so much that you kiss his but at last once a week.
Then you don’t know.
No, Bob, we do. You just don’t read or understand.
And do you read any of the debunkings of the absurd shit spouted by Kirsch? Have you been made aware of the endless straightforward lies in Died Suddenly? The numerous claimed deaths of people who have subsequently been shown to be fit and well?
These are your idiots, OB.
@Antediluvian Robert
I know more than you do. I also understand more than you, who gets his “knowledge” from media garbage cans and who worships lie-spreading storytellers like Kirsch.
“I know nothing.” – Socrates
we know that!
[but did he really have you in mind?]
@Antediluvian Robert
Gosh, you cannot even quote correctly: “I know that I know nothing.”
And you *know* that?