Germany seems to have a significant problem with anti-vaxxers. Today, only 68% of the population has had a COVID vaccination. In the UK and France, these figures are 72% and 75% respectively.
How come?
This study investigated the willingness to vaccinate of parents of minors and people without children who are minors. The investigation was based on a random sample of Germans (telephone survey, n = 2,014, collected between 12 November and 10 December 2020). The evaluation is primarily based on the sub-sample of people with minors in the household (n = 461).
Parents of minors consistently show a lower willingness to be vaccinated with a COVID-19 vaccine than respondents without minors (54.1% vs 71.1%). Fathers show a stronger willingness to be vaccinated than mothers. Furthermore, men are more willing to get their own child vaccinated with a COVID-19 vaccine than are women.
The authors concluded that among parents and especially mothers, a considerable misrepresentation of vaccination risks and frequent beliefs in vaccination conspiracy theories can be observed. Clear and easily understandable information on the effects and side effects of vaccination with a COVID-19 vaccine by relevant institutions and physicians is recommended.
And what has this to do with so-called alternative medicine (SCAM) and homeopathy?
In the results section of the paper, the authors report interesting additional findings (my translation):
In the total sample, a significantly higher willingness to vaccinate is associated with the rejection of “alternative healing methods”. There is also a significant correlation between the attitude towards homeopathy and one’s own willingness to vaccinate: if homeopathy is supported, the willingness to vaccinate is lower. This correlation between the attitude towards homeopathy and willingness to vaccinate is also evident in the sub-sample of parents. Among parents, it is again women who significantly more often have a positive attitude towards homeopathy than men, who more often do not think anything of it.
The authors also report that the parents were asked: “If a vaccine against the coronavirus is approved in Germany, would you get vaccinated?” CERTAINLY NOT was the answer of:
- 41% of homeopathy fans
- 10% of people who thought nothing at all about homeopathy
- 15% of participants who were not fully convinced by homeopathy
Yes, Germany seems to have a problem with the anti-vaccination brigade but it seems that at the heart of it is a problem with a homeopathy cult.
40 Responses to Parents’ Willingness to Vaccinate with a COVID-19 Vaccine: strongly influenced by homeopathy
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I have a dear friend in Germany who is the mother of a four-year-old boy. I have shared your books with her as they are available in German, as her English is pretty good for conversation, but not so much for reading. She has responded well until her son was diagnosed with a childhood fever problem (I forget the exact letters of the syndrome) that he will grown out of but results in frequent serious fevers that cause her a lot of stress and anguish. She is very sensitive by nature and suffers more than the child I fear. Suddenly she writes to tell me that she has found a “wonderful doctor” in Austria (they live in Düssedorf so it is not close) who now treats the child with homeopathy! I can only surmise that this “doctor” has a sypathetic bedside manner and so she has been convinced that he is helping. She claims the fevers are now less frequent and she made no reply to my suggestion that this is the natural progression of a problelm that the child usually outgrows by age eight. I have asked if they have their shots, but she has not replied. This state of affairs has saddened me as I have made such an effort to gently educate her–our original meeting involved me persuading her to see a doctor when I saw obvious signs of her regression when she stopped taking her thyroid medication. She (and her parents, especically, were very grateful at the time and I followed up with a couple of your books, so now it is hard to see how easily she has embraced homeopathy once again. I really have to put some blame on the German and Austrian regulatory bodies.
sad!
if you want to try: I have recently written quite a few posts on a German blog (https://publikum.net/ghost/#/profile)
Here in Germany I got yelled at over the telephone by someone from my medical insurance company after I complained about their support for homeopathy. I remember telling her to just wait until the next pandemic sweeps through the country. And here we are.
Many of my friends use homeopathy– ‘prescribed’ by their doctor. I’m not a doctor, so I usually say nothing — I can’t really tell them to ignore what their doctor says.
It comes as no surprise to me that the population that doesn’t put much faith in scientific medicine also will tend to allow a more natural response to a virus. Especially a virus that is less dangerous to children than the seasonal flu.
Duh
… such as severe illness and death.
And exactly herein lies the real problem: both those dumb quacks and their gullible customers have no idea what a real infection entails – in this way, widespread vaccination has become a victim of its own success. This problem is further exacerbated by the fact that those dumb quacks lie to their gullible customers that they can effectively prevent disease, or even cure it. They can’t.
About 15% of Covid-19-infected children end up with long-term sequelae (symptoms persisting for 12 weeks or more). Influenza doesn’t have this problem. And, of course, children can pass on their infection to older and more vulnerable people. And the longer a pathogen can circulate in vulnerable hosts, the more mutations will arise, and the bigger the chance that one of those mutations makes it more dangerous.
So the best course of action by far is to vaccinate everyone, children included.
Dear Richard
Long term effects ?
The long term effects from the vaccines has yet to be established, but that didn’t stop them from forcing jabs.
Where is the science ?
NOT A VERY BRIGHT ARGUMENT
do you know of a new therapeutic approach of which the long-term effects are proven?
Yes Edzard, thousands.
Most approved therapeutics are evaluated for years to determine long term safety as highest of importance, above the risk/benefit value.
I’m not going to list them, you should know of at least one hundred that you can think of.
you forgot that we are in a pandemic dealing with a new disease that was bound to kill millions more than it already did.
“Most approved therapeutics are evaluated for years to determine long term safety”
LOL, it’s adorable when they pretend they know how medicines are developed. Real drugs go through both pre-market trials (Phases 1–3) and post-market monitoring (Phase 4), so most of that “long-term safety” evaluation is happening after the drug is already in public circulation, and is more about detecting any rare (circa one in a million) side-effects that aren’t common enough to appear during trials (thousands), or when that medicine is being taken over many years.
Phase 1–3 trials can take several years to complete, but that has far more to do with the time and cost it takes to plan and administer large trials and collect, process, publish, and review the results. That hasn’t been a problem with COVID, where there’s been a vast amount of money available to speed those logistical processes along. Don’t forget too that COVID vaccines aren’t starting from a blank slate, but are building on decades of previous research and development, including that on SARS-CoV-1.
Also bear in mind that vaccines, unlike a lot of pharma products, are typically one-off treatments (with the occasional boosters). Any side-effects are most likely to show while the treatment is being administered, or very shortly thereafter, not spontaneously erupt years after that treatment is no longer applied. So again: unless you can list for us specific sequelae of vaccination which are known not to appear until months or years after vaccine administration, then you are just spewing FUD.
Just because you don’t understand how stuff works, it doesn’t mean that everyone else in the world understands it even less than you do. And, contrary to popular anti-vax opinion, epidemiologists and other professionals aren’t all stupid and/or venal, and would be the first to kick off is there was a suspicion of real harms; as opposed to your ridiculous invisible-boogeyman hysteria.
Hell, you think Pfizer wouldn’t delight in telling everyone if they noticed J&J’s vaccine was killing tens of thousands? Or vice-versa? It’s a Conspiracee, I tells ya!!!
Thinking that you’re smarter and more woke than everyone else in the world, just because you watched a YouTube video confirming your beliefs, is the sort of negative numpty personality trait we would expect to see in Paranoid and Narcissistic types, however, so please keep going if you want to give me yet more evidence that movement antivaxxers are a Cluster B smorgasbord best dealt with accordingly.
Ahhhh
I understand now. Follow the science ONLY, at all times !
Well unless time doesn’t permit. In that event…. ignore the science. How convenient.
CONmed has more double standards than liberals.
you have given us ample evidence that you understand nothing about healthcare
@Bart: “CONmed”
Hmm, I wonder who that sounds like.
Dear Bart, What are the long-term effects from COVID infection, bearing in mind the disease itself is only a couple of years old and already we’ve already numerous reports of the permanent damage it leaves in its wake?
Cos it is reasonable to assume that long-term effects of the vaccines are somewhere between “none” and “a lot less than COVID itself”, based on past experience with other successful vaccines as well as prior plausibility. I mean, it’s possible that COVID vaccines will cause people to grow a second head in twenty years’ time; it just isn’t likely, is all.
In fact, the only long-term effect of vaccines that we can be pretty confident of is more people living longer lives thanks to not dying of preventable disease. Which, of course, is anathema to you anti-vaxxers, because it demolishes your “vaccines = eeevul” world view as the fapping nonsense it is, and brings down all the egos and empires that you’ve built upon it. Dog forbid you’d ever admit you were wrong; you’ve more chance of finding Bill Gates’ 5G nanobots in COVID vaccines than the courage to mea culpa.
…
See that red banner above? Either show us good evidence of adverse effects that have already occurred, above and beyond those which we already know (which, by the way, tend to occur within minutes/hours/days of vaccination, not months or years later), or show us good plausibility for specific adverse effects we should be on the lookout for further out in time. Otherwise, we can reasonably conclude you are only sowing pure fertilizer, nothing but hysterical arm-waving and FUD all the way down, because in fact you don’t possess anything but your undying virulent hatred for something that you do not understand and do not control. (Which will back my narc hypothesis if nothing else.)
@Bart
This is a well-known argument, and betrays ignorance on the subject matter. Allow me to educate you.
In the more than 200 years that we vaccinate, NOT A SINGLE VACCINE has ever exhibited long-term effects(*). And this is not due to luck, but due to the nature of vaccines, which differs fundamentally from the nature of medicines, that can have long-term effects.
Medicines are substances aimed at influencing the body’s biochemistry in order to achieve a particular effect. E.g. albuterol (an asthma medicine) binds to specific receptors found mostly on smooth muscle cells in the airways, and has the effect that these muscles relax. This way, asthma attacks no longer lead to bronchospasm, and the patient no longer dies from suffocation.
Other medicines have a completely different mode of action, e.g. by inhibiting or stimulating the production of certain proteins, or by binding to certain toxic substances (chelation agents), or by influencing any of the other tens of thousands of essential biochemical processes going on inside each one of us. This means that any new medicine can potentially have millions of undesirable biochemical interactions in the body, some of which may indeed only become apparent in the long run.
The (side) effects of medicines are further complicated by the fact that a particular biochemical substance can have completely different functions depending on its location in the body. E.g. in the brain, serotonin is a neurotransmitter that regulates (among many other things) mood and sensitivity to stimuli – but in the gut, it regulates bowel movement, with an excess of serotonin causing diarrhoea and nausea. Most medicines spread more or less evenly throughout the body, so they may have desired effects in one place, but undesirable effects in other places where the same biochemical compound is affected. This is why almost all medicines have particular undesirable side effects, and why dosage is important (and sometimes essential).
Vaccines OTOH are a completely different kettle of fish. ALL vaccines do EXACTLY the same thing: they present a pathogen or a part of a pathogen to the immune system, and that is all. Vaccines do not act on the body’s biochemistry, and do not contain any substances that have biochemical effects. Any side effects from vaccines stem from the immune system’s response, and can worst case mimic the immune system’s response to the real pathogen. Or to put it differently: by definition, a vaccine cannot do what the pathogen doesn’t do as well. This also goes for Covid-19 vaccines.
And even if science should do research into long-term effects, how would you envision this? Develop a vaccine, and then keep testing it on hundreds of thousands of people for at least one complete generation, say 25 years? Or perhaps 50 years? And only if it has been tested for half a century can it be released onto the market? And all that with virtually zero plausibility that this one particular new vaccine has long-term side effects?
They don’t even do this with new medicines (which can have long-term side effects as explained). Because that would be utterly ludicrous as well as prohibitively expensive.
If scientists would actually heed the demands of antivaxxers about the precautionary principle and possible long-term side effects, not a single vaccine and much less a single new medicine would ever appear on the market again.
Luckily, science and in particular biochemistry have advanced to such a degree that scientists can not only spot very rare side effects already in earlier research phases, but are increasingly able to predict them, based on the mode of interaction between a particular substance and the target cells or target biochemicals in an organism.
Also, both vaccines and medicines are of course monitored after market introduction, and are pulled immediately at the very first signs that there may be something wrong with them. Which rarely happens with medicines and has never happened with vaccines.
See above, or here for a more elaborate version from someone else: https://thelogicofscience.com/2021/08/30/future-long-term-side-effects-from-covid-vaccines-are-extremely-unlikely/
*: Except of course immunity for the particular infectious disease it was aimed at.
Richard
There is no previous history of mRNA vaccines.
Sorry
@Bart
And once again you betray your ignorance on the subject. Please allow me to educate you:
– There is approximately 30 years of history in the development of mRNA vaccines, with at least 10 years of trials in humans, without any ill effects at all.
– The working mechanism of mRNA vaccines is IDENTICAL to the working mechanism of RNA viruses: fuse with a cell, release mRNA, and get the cell’s ribosomes to produce proteins, which are transported to the cell membrane, to be signalled by the immune system. Period.
Once again: even mRNA vaccines don’t do anything that an actual pathogen doesn’t also do.
– The mRNA is unstable, and breaks up within a week or so, leaving only the normal amino acids that already exist inside each cell.
– And once again: there is no plausible mechanism by which an mRNA vaccine can have other effects than described.
Well, thank you for apologizing for being not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but I hope my explanations help you understand things a bit better.
Richard
Nice post
I’d love to respond,
However, I’m busy at the moment booking a fight and car rental for my next International vacation trip.
G’day
vaccinated traveler
@Bart
Don’t forget to wear a mask on the plane, otherwise they kick you out of the plane.
Oh…and watch out for that extra carbon dioxide poison that you end up breathing in while wearing a mask, I hear that it kills whatever brain cells you got left.
Happy Travels!!
“If scientists would actually heed the demands of antivaxxers about the precautionary principle and possible long-term side effects, not a single vaccine and much less a single new medicine would ever appear on the market again.”
Antivax has nothing to do with the precautionary principle and everything to do with their own particular passive-aggressive streak:
1. If I vax and my child is injured, it’s my fault.
2. If I vax and my child isn’t injured, I still took an unnecessary risk.
3. If I don’t vax and my child isn’t injured, I made the right choice.
4. If I don’t vax and my child is injured, that is God’s will.
Therefore, the right decision (to them) is not to vax.
Which is, of course, their choice. As it should be. The problem is, that decision indirectly affects other people too (contagious diseases, y’all), and the instant they are politely asked to take reasonable precautions to minimize the risk of those personal choice inadvertently injuring other persons, they go full thermonuclear detonation. How dare other people make choices for themselves! Outrage!!!
Which brings us back to the narcissism, as the only person whose life and wellbeing matters to a narcissist is herself. And most antivaxxers seem to be middle-class white people who had all their childhood vaccinations, and have never experienced what it is to give birth to a dozen kids in full knowledge that you will bury half of them before they grow up. So if it isn’t part of her personal world experience, it doesn’t exist. That is how insular and self-obsessed they are.
Meanwhile, here in the real world, we work with complexity and uncertainty and error and mistakes. It’s not perfect, but considering the alternative, we gradually move in the right direction more than not.
And they wish to burn it all to the ground. For their own glory and smug delight. I’d say our modern society is extraordinarily tolerant of them under all the circumstances; but then… who ever got traditionally burned at the stake for being not-a-witch?
@Richard: “And once again you betray your ignorance on the subject.”
Indeed. But, you forget: If it isn’t part of the anti-vaxxer’s own personal experience, then it doesn’t exist at all. Like seeing empty visitor parking lots outside of hospitals, the only possible explanation for that must be that nobody is actually sick. A narcissist can be dumb as a stump and still know they’re the smartest person on the entire planet. And most antivaxxers aren’t even a fraction as smart as that. Hell, they’re even taking to calling themselves “purebloods” now!
You might as well discuss what’s for dinner with a vampire. Time to stake it and move on.
Remember back when the bubonic plague wiped out 1/3 of Europe? Good times, good times.
Of course, we just take antibiotics for that now.
Next time the New World Order wants to enact a Depopulation Agenda, I strongly recommend they run with Nipah. Solid 50–75% fatality rate; no treatments. None of this piddling around in the 1–3% range of cuddly SARS-CoV-2. Dog knows western society could use the deep-clean, when it has such people in it.
“Especially a virus that is less dangerous to children than the seasonal flu.”
Spoken like a true sociopath.
Incidentally, over 500 children have already died from COVID in the US, compared to an annual average of 150 pediatric deaths from flu, so your assertion is already wrong. And we have yet to learn the long-term scale and consequences of COVID injuries in kids (including >4000 cases of MIS-C so far).
Plus, of course, children infected with COVID can spread it to adults as well as other children. And the more people there are breeding COVID viruses in their bodies, the more opportunities there are for new strains to evolve.
Not to mention that schools are a fabulous place for kids to share their germs with each other and, by extension, their families, as every parent of school-age kids can attest. Which is probably why the infection rate in US kids is rocketing right now, with GOP states engaged in cynically lethal virtue signalling to their murder-death cult.
IOW, lots of good reasons to get kids vaccinated, versus a bunch of screeching looneys harrassing parents and children to make themselves feel powerful. Stay classy.
has
If you believe that anti-vax parents are making themselves feel powerful rather than doing what they believe is best for their children…. YOU are the loon.
The “science” says that children don’t spread the virus at the same rate as adults do.
I did check, and the covid-19 deaths statistics for children under 18 in the USA are actually about the same as the seasonal flu.
HOWEVER. that said, covid deaths are not nearly as high as reported due to the fact that a child killed on a bicycle, or drown in a pool that tested positive for covid, the death will be reported as a covid death. This skews the death rate dramatically higher towards covid-19 mortality.
Oh, look. Well-trodden anti-vax talking points. That didn’t take long. Color me unsurprised.
Oh, and what a weak tu-quoque of a comeback. 1/10 for that. You aren’t even trying any more. I provided video evidence of anti-vaxxers being exactly the shrieking bullying loons that I said they were. That’s because they’re narcissists, and narcissists don’t view their own children as independent human beings, with rights and privileges of their own, but merely as a servile extension of themselves. I may not know much about medicine or science, but I’m not slow to spot pathological personalities (one of the advantages of being a rather pathological person myself). And I name you duplicitous anti-vax JAQ-off and claim my five pounds.
ohhhh …. has
I’ve received four vaccines in the last two years….. hmmm
Are anti-vaxxers allowed to even do that ?
Go put your (anit-vax) label on a soup can where it belongs.
@Bart
Anti-vaxxer label is slapped based on the nonsense that comes out of your pie hole and not how many vaccine jabs you got in the past years.
If we were to believe that you really got four jabs then that makes you a hypocrite anti-vaxxer.
Talker
Who said I’m anti-vax ? …. I never stated as such, you folks here assume I’m anti-vax.
I’ve always advocated for safe vaccines.
The current covid vaccines don’t have the usual bad actors in other vaccines that I find problem with, IF IF IF we can trust the revealed ingredients to be as stated, and nothing more.
That said, I don’t give my hearty approval to the covid vaccines due to the fact that they are EUA. In other words, not fully tested like previous vaccines. The recent FDA “approval” of the Pfizer covid vaccine was only granted due to pressure on the FDA to encourage more patients to get the jab. Nothing was ever indicated why the Pfizer vaccine was EUA one day, and approved the next day. Furthermore, the actual Pfizer vaccine that was approved by the FDA is actually not the Pfizer vaccine that is being administered in the USA. The previous science for vaccine testing and approval is NOT being followed.
I took the Janssen EUA vaccine only because I could predict that eventually I would need a covid vaccine record to participate in life as we know it BC (before covid). I still believe that is where we are headed. So I got my vaccine record, that’s all I wanted was the documentation. Now I’m facing a decision to be jabbed again and again because the vaccines are not effective for long….. SURPRISE !
I’m not anti-vax.
I’m for safer vaccines, that would intend vaccines with no toxic ingredients. I’m for vaccines with less side effects. I’m for less vaccines, as in a vaccine schedule that allows more time between jabs for babies and children. I do not support annual flu vaccines, nor automatic tetanus boosters, nor covid vaccines for all, particularly those under sixty years of age with no comorbidities due to the fact that the virus in not deadly enough for the general population.
Recent jabs
Covid-19
Shingles
Flu
in other words, you are ill-informed and even smug about it.
@Bart a.k.a Listener, you are busted again!
You use standard talking points of anti-vaxxers, my old friend! No matter how much you try to gas-light us, it ain’t gonna work. You gonna have to be a lot more creative, Listener!
To be honest, it is getting boring, as in groundhog day like boring! It is not that hard to sniff you out no matter what moniker you use. You use the same old pathetic, uninformed and feckless arguments again and again that doesn’t convince anyone around here. You get brutally mocked for your idiocy and yet you keep coming back for more. I am beginning to wonder whether you are a masochist.
Science in double quotes implies that you don’t believe in science and yet you appear to be quoting some scientific study (for which you don’t provide a reference for) to support your argument.
Are you trying to have your cake and eat it too, Bart?
Talker
I’m speaking of the science that you and this message board supports WITHOUT MEASURE.
I never said I don’t believe in science, I only suspect the science that is twisted to make profits. Science that has double standards, science that claims to do no harm but does.
Hur-hurr, “Bart” projects like IMAX. Cos nothing convinces science folks better’n a mendacious fraud.
A billion people on this planet don’t know where their next meal is coming from; another billion not sure about the meal after that. It sucks to see so many entitled deadweights occupying so much space at the top. *Flush*
The UK govt just released statistics admitting that more than 30,000 people died in the first 6 mos of the year within 21 days after getting Covid vaccinated.
This matches with Steve Kirsch’s study that shows that there were > 150,000 excess deaths from the Covid vaxs in the USA this year.
https://rumble.com/vmuyi0-tfnt7-tom-kertschers-bogus-fact-check-of-my-claims-of-150000-deaths.html
In 2018 there over 360,000 deaths in the 75 and over age group. Since these people were being offered vaccination in the first 6 months of 2021, it does not seem surprising that some of them died coincidental with receiving such vaccine.
Do you really think that ALL of the UK’s epidemiologists and other medical/scientist staff are “in” on some huge cover up?
For stats see https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales
“30,000 people died in the first 6 mos of the year within 21 days after getting Covid vaccinated”
That doesn’t mean diddly quat.
1. The people who received vaccines in the first 6 months were the elderly and medically fragile, so we would expect them to be more likely to die sooner, regardless of vaccination status, compared to the population as a whole.
2. You haven’t shown that 30,000 deaths in the 21 days after vaccination is an abnormal number. How many died within the 21 days before vaccination? Was it also 30,000? Did you even bother to check?
3. You haven’t shown causality either. If vaccines actually killed 30,000 people, we’d expect to see common patterns in their reported cause[s] of death; patterns which don’t appear in unvaccinated populations of similar age and health. (Unless it’s all an ebil coverup!)
4. You didn’t link your sources, so we can’t check for ourselves what that 30,000 actually referred to. All-cause deaths? Excess deaths? What?
5. You cited Kirsch again, who has already been comprehensively torn apart. The man completely invented his numbers, then declared his conclusion to be true without ever bothering to check if they were remotely correct. There’s a reason Kirsch’s science advisors walked out on him in disgust. Utterly dismal, although par for the course for a Walter Mitty fabulist like you; who thinks that the harder you Believe in a thing, the more that makes it True.
…
Sorry, Roger, but your personal trustworthiness is somewhere between the toilet and the toilet brush. We wouldn’t even take your word for it that the sky was blue until we’ve checked and independently verified it for ourselves. Again, scary-sounding numbers quoted in isolation, without context, don’t actually mean squat. Their only function is to panic those who are easily panicked, those who don’t stop to ask themselves “Have I missed anything?” before going full-on hysterics. Quoting absolute figures where only comparative values are meaningful is, however, a well-known tactic of fraudsters and rubes. So which are you?
@Roger
First of all, no reference was provided for the above so you might as well pull that statistic out of you behind.
Secondly, what you are implying is that the 30K deaths includes all deaths that happened within 21 days of vaccination regardless of the cause and that you are going to blame that on covid vaccines. If someone gets vaccinated and dies in a car crash within 21 days of vaccination, the vaccine is to be blamed for that death.
@Talker: “If someone gets vaccinated and dies in a car crash within 21 days of vaccination, the vaccine is to be blamed for that death.”
Please remember: Roger & friends already state with equal certainty that if someone who has COVID dies in a car crash, or is shot, drowned, etc, their death certificate declares that they died of COVID. So Roger is being fully consistent.
After all, it’s fantastically easy to always be right if you never, ever fact-check yourself before opening your mouth. Oral-rectal inversion is one helluva drug.
Who is Steve Kirsch? An electrical engineer and computer scientist with zero experience in virology, epidemiology, or a related science. Aren’t you embarrassed to keep spouting such nonsense?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Kirsch
Roger
Day after day, week after week, year after year, in post after post all you demonstrate is a quite startling ignorance of science and the scientific method.
Now.
Go back to your post and demonstrate just the faintest iota of self-criticism and analytical skill and think to yourself just why the statistic you have quoted might possibly not say what you like to think it says.