MD, PhD, FMedSci, FRSB, FRCP, FRCPEd.

I am currently working on a project that involves studying a lot of what our heir to the throne – or is the ‘the heir to our throne? – as done, said and written about so-called alternative medicine (SCAM). Unavoidably, this meant reading his 2010 book HARMONY, A NEW WAY OF LOOKING AT OUR WORLD. In it, Prince Charles states that “… I cannot bear to see people suffer unnecessarily when, so often, a complementary treatment can be beneficial…” This is a statement that Charles has made several times before.

Each time I come across it, I have to think of some of my own patients. It’s a long time since I was a clinician, yet one patient, in particular, often comes to my mind.

He had been a young man healthy, happily married, nice kids, good job, etc. Then one day, he was inattentive or distracted and drove his car full with his wife and kids across a red signal at an unguarded railway crossing. They were all killed instantly.

But almost miraculously, he survived and had just relatively minor injuries which we hoped to put right. So, his body was about to be fine, but his mind was not. Just before being dismissed from the hospital, he tried to commit suicide by jumping out of the 4th-floor window of his room. He survived that too, and we were looking after him and his multiple injuries. As he had lost a lot of blood, he received several blood transfusions. One had been infected and he contracted HIV. He did not survive.

Does Charles know what he is talking about?

How often does he see truly suffering patients?

Does he know that faked empathy might be seen as offensive?

On what evidential basis does he assume that so-called alternative medicine (SCAM) would bring any benefit to severely ill patients?

Does he assume to know better than the clinicians treating the ‘people suffering unnecessarily?

Does he realize that his words are an insult to those who actually do see patients suffer and empathize with them?

Does he know what it means to do everything possible to help patients?

Does he realize that this is achieved by employing the most effective treatments currently available?

Does he know that the most effective treatments would almost never include SCAM?

I am sorry, but sometimes Charles’s musings about SCAM do get under my skin.

46 Responses to Does Prince Charles know what he is talking about?

  • Well, no one can argue with that. The very idea that there is a treatment out there that caring clinicians don’t know about or ignore is a disgrace. Maybe people don’t recognise that vast amount of research that goes on to provide good treatments. Charles should realise that the opposite is true of ‘complimentary’ medicine where no research is done – and not even a trial done properly to discover if the treatments work (hint – they don’t).

    If I had to counter that statement by Charles I would ask him to show me one, single treatment from the realm of so-called complimentary treatments that actually works as demonstrated by a double blind trial. I suspect that we would only hear feet walking away as an answer!

    • Its impossible not to feel deeply saddened by such a tragic story. Of course acute emergency treatment is not what Prince Charles is talking about . As it has been stated before the medical profession have no cures for chronic disease , hence why it is term chronic . It amazes me that the medical profession sits on such a high ‘evidence based ‘ box after such scandals as ‘Prozac no better than placebo’ , after suffering chronic neuromuscular pain for over 15 months , after seeing 6 GP’s and getting 6 different diagnoses , I do feel medical practitioners are in need of much better diagnostic skills, and stop relying on pharmaceutical only treatment.

      • @ David Harrison

        “It amazes me that the medical profession sits on such a high ‘evidence based ‘ box after such scandals as ‘Prozac no better than placebo’ ”

        well this is erroneous for starters – you should not believe all that you read in the Daily Mail. SSRIs do actually work in moderate to severe depression and are also effective for to many other indications – e.g. Bi-Polar Disorder, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, Bulimia, OCD, Panic Disorder, PMDD, Treatment Resistant Depression – and off label for many other conditions.

        So exactly what “scandal” are you going on about?

        “after suffering chronic neuromuscular pain for over 15 months , after seeing 6 GP’s and getting 6 different diagnoses , I do feel medical practitioners are in need of much better diagnostic skills, and stop relying on pharmaceutical only treatment.”

        without knowing the exact details of your presenting condition and the exact diagnoses you have been given it is difficult to be precise but by yourself labelling your condition as “chronic” you are accepting it as “permanent” and incurable.

        You also seem to think that every set of symptoms MUST have a diagnosis – this is simply not true. There are many sets of “Medically Unexplained Symptoms” – some trivial but some occurring as “syndromes that can be troubling and debilitating but which remain unexplained and undiagnosed nonetheless.
        This is frustrating for both patient and doctor. Sometimes there are treatments which can be palliative even if the cause is unknown.

        The other issue is depending upon what exactly you have been told there may well be overlap between the various terminologies used and which mean more or less the same thing. Sometimes doctors disagree – get used to it.

        As for relying on pharmaceuticals you may have a point that doctors reach to quickly for the prescription pad as a “quick fix” for a problem. But I believe that this is symptomatic of the whole of society and is merely a reflection of the way patients themselves react when they are asked to do anything that involves taking any kind of responsibility for their own health. You are met with a blank look, a sort of:

        “wot me? you can’t be serious? I’m looking for an instant fix like right this minute innit? You know wot I mean?”

        And with a sinking heart you realize that there is no realistic chance that this patient is going to stop smoking, lose any weight, take any exercise, eat a healthier diet or do ANY of the health advice things you suggest no matter how many leaflets you give them.
        They want a QUICK FIX just like everything advertised on social media says they can have – right now.
        The idea of having to put any work into achieving anything is just not compatible with current societal patterns.

        “There’s a pill for that.”
        And that’s part of the reason influencers are so popular and why SCAM is so popular – because THEY LIE and promise the earth.

        So the sad truth may be that your neuromuscular problem may not ever have an actual diagnosis, and you may just have to live with it as best you can. That’s life. And if you find some pills that help what’s so terrible about that?

        Of course such conditions are a boon to SCAM artists who will NEVER fail to reach a diagnosis – whether it be “adrenal fatigue” “chronic Lyme” “leaky gut” or some other FAKE DISEASE reached by FAKE TESTS which they can then go on to treat using FAKE THERAPIES at great cost. And since all of these are CHRONIC CONDITIONS these patients are hooked for life.

        So which would you prefer – that doctors be honest and admit ignorance or that you see a SCAMmer and be told a lie and receive fake treatment?

        Conventional medicine is far from perfect – but that doesn’t make SCAM any more true.

  • Does Prince Charles know what he is talking about?

    No.

    Next please..

  • HRH has not the faintest idea of what he is talking about.

    I can think of no area of medicine where “people suffer unnecessarily when, so often, a complementary treatment can be beneficial…” The only possible situation where this could possibly be true is the application of the placebo effect whereby SCAM practitioners so often get to spend much longer with their patients, and so often use theatrical placebos like Acupuncture.

    In addition SCAMmers have the additional advantage of being able to LIE to their patients and build up the expectations for their placebo effect enormously – the powerful power of suggestion. More ethical conventional medics are constrained by having to say things llke “there’s only a 50% change this operation will solve this problem.” It doesn’t sound half as marvellous as the miracle promised by the SCAMmer!

    Additionally we are all aware that SCAMmers do not do “informed consent” properly – and since the majority of their nonsense doesn’t actually “do” anything anyway there can be no side-effects so they are in the clear anyway!

    It’s a very unlevel playing field. And one on which the SCAMmers bad mouth the conventional medics who in general remain silent about the unethical and pseudoscientific antics of the other side.

    And as for Charles? He suffers from acute grey cell deficiency and an overdose of self-importance. I don’t believe homeopaths have a cure for that.

    • All your comments can just as easily be applied to the medical profession , as 50% of the UK population throw their medications away , wasting £8 billion pounds a year , it amazes me that you think everything in the NHS is rosy. I wish there were some original thinkers on this site , and not just recycling very old outdated arguments.It adds nothing to the debate.

      • “I wish there were some original thinkers on this site”
        LUCKY WE HAVW YOU!!!

      • All our comments cannot as easily be applied to the qualified, registered medical profession.

        The 50% figure is surprising – no doubt it comes from a reputable, credible published source?

        Sometime medicines are unused because many conditions are self-limiting, but GPs can feel pressurised by patient expectation to prescribe pills, instead of asking the patient to make lifestyle changes. And unused medicines may be left over because of a change in prescription to something that the patient responds to better.

        With regard to recycling old outdated arguments, I reflect that the ideas/arguments of Rudolf Steiner, including his argument for Viscum Album (mistletoe) as a cancer treatment (“Iscador”) had no truth behind it then, and no evidence of benefit beyond placebo now, a century later. And the arguments of Samuel Hahnemann are more than two centuries old, and unsupported by credible evidence then or now. And the ideas (he called it a religion) of D.D. Palmer more than a century ago, about subluxations being the cause of all health problems, and spinal manipulation the way to cure health problems, are a century old, and unsupported by evidence then, or now.

        Most CAM methodologies are kept going by recycling old outdated arguments that lacked evidence from the start.

        By contrast, science has made huge strides in medicine; both in treating acute conditions, and managing chronic conditions. In times past, many conditions never got the chance to become chronic, because without any effective way to manage them, the patients simply died.

        Tell me a CAM idea that isn’t outdated and recycled?

        Compare and contrast the treatment of the H1N1 virus in 1918, with that of Coronavirus Covid-19 today. Between fifty and a hundred million people (no-one knows the exact figure) died in eighteen months flat, at the end of World War 1, from a vastly smaller world population than today’s. The war only managed to kill around seventeen million people, in four years.

        • https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=double+blind+randomized+controlled+trials+homeopathy&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart This link is a taste of the many double blind randomly controlled clinical trials for homeopathy. Iscador has now been shown to have cytostatic activity https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4127267/ Iscador
          Most pharmaceuticals are derived or copies of plant based medicines (eg opiates). Vaccines are not really applicable to the chronic disease argument. Anyway are not really a medical invention but are a natural phenomena. Also, remember anti-biotics are also natural products.

          • A taste indeed, and a nasty taste at that. It doesn’t amount to a hill o’ beans, and the English is pretty incoherent at that.

            What has Viscum Album done, really, to improve cancer outcomes for patients?

            No-one here is denying (OK, I cannot speak for absolutely everyone) that plant pharmacology is fascinating, that the plant world containt a multitude of pharmacologically active complex substances, and that a great many phenomenally useful medicines have been derived from plants.

            But Rudolf Steiner based his theory about Viscum album on a version of the outdated, recycled and entirely theoretical and superstitious “Doctrine of Signatures”, and Iscador has not demonstrated efficacy beyond placebo. If it had, it would be mainstream, and Dr MK would have used it in his clinical practice.

            I do not understand what you mean by “natural”, or what point you are making about vaccinations.

          • I am not a supporter of Rudolf Steiner , don’t much about him really. I was simply trying to redress the balance , as for people that don’t have an academic background in these subjects , this site seems to suggest there is no evidence base. So it was stated that there was no evidence base for Iscodor, so I sent the published research paper. I agree this is not necessarily the best treatment for cancer. It would have to be compared to current treatments in robust trials. If a patient came to me I would want to check all the available evidence and explain what is the best course of action. By the way I wouldn’t treat patients for cancer anyway, its a specialist area I know very little about. I treat my patients in the way I would want to be treated. With knowledge, kindness & ethics. I am trying to make the case for in my opinion that here is a distinct difference to “hippys doing CAM” and degree trained highly regulated and professional career homeopaths or the like. It upsets me as a Homeopath & a Scientist to be lumped together with “weirdos”. Homeopathy was started by a medical doctor Dr Samuel Hahnemann , who was appalled by medical practices in his day involving blood letting & use of poisons. Not surprisingly he wanted an alternative to this which involved diluting herbal medicines typically to start with using 3X dilutions which represents about 1% of the herbal remedy. He was very successful, again not that surprising given the medical treatments at the time. Homeopathy was immensely successful under Hahnemann but fell into ridicule after his death when an american doctor , James Tyler Kent, took it to extremes of dilution because of his spiritual beliefs. I am pretty sure if many of the ultradilutions clinical trials were repeated with 3X then there would be positive outcomes.

          • @ David Harrison

            “distinct difference to “hippys doing CAM” and degree trained highly regulated and professional career homeopaths or the like.”

            Not so much! Homeopathy is based on magical thinking – not on any scientific basis – it’s not even rational or logical.
            JHahnemann just made it up out of whole cloth with absolutely no rational justification. It is pure Tooth Fairy Science!
            The Law of similars has no basis in fact or logic and has no empirical proof. It is pure magical thinking.
            The same applies to his ideas on succussion.
            The idea that diluting a substance make it more potent is counterintuitive, illogical, irrational, and counter to what we observe in everyday life.

            For homeopathy to be true large tracts of well established physics, chemistry and biology would have to be proven wrong. Hahnemann just made all this stuff up. He might just as well have written it all on the back of a fag packet.

            Homeopathy is not “highly regulated.” Anybody doing minimal study and paying a fee can call themselves a homeopath. The so-called regulation is a joke. This has been established time and again. When the PSA permitted supposedly “self-regulating” homeopaths to keep their house in order which they signally failed to do even under the incredibly lax standards that were permitted of them and it was only when they behaved so egregiously badly that homeopaths with fringe views even for homeopaths were running the show that they lost their PSA accreditation.

            “According to the PSA, the SoH’s failings in this regard “led to risks to the public from homeopathy being offered as an alternative for serious conditions such as depression, arthritis and autoimmune conditions that require medical supervision.”

            No homeopath should ever be allowed to treat any medical condition of any kind. They are not adequately trained and do not have sufficient understanding. In addition they have delusions about their own abilities that can lead to them attempting treatments well beyond their very limited abilities. This is most definitely a classic case of Dunning Kruger of the worst kind.

            The very idea of homeopaths treating cancer is terrifying! I trust you realize that in the UK it would also be illegal?

            ” It upsets me as a Homeopath & a Scientist to be lumped together with “weirdos”
            Well if you lie down with the dogs you must expect to get up with fleas.
            One of the reasons for the PSA being pushed to finally kick the SoH out was that the loons in your ranks were pushing CEASE therapy for autism. Since any rational person with medical knowledge is aware that autism is not caused by vaccines and that it is a developmental disorder on a wide spectrum and is not amenable to any such “cure” especially anything as bizarre as that concocted by homeopathy. Beyond which the whole philosophy and thinking behind CEASE therapy is highly objectionable and offensive to people with autism and their carers.

            Nonetheless despite many years of attempts to educate homeopaths on this subject you have proved intractable and impossible to educate. You have proved totally resistant to all attempts to reason with you and to explain the facts and the reasons why the rest of us find all of this to be the case. In the face of a mountain of evidence and the consensus of medical and scientific opinion and the SoH decided to be a hold-out and stick with the objectionable and irrational and unworkable CEASE therapy.
            Yet another case of ideology winning over reason and pragmatism.
            And ideology is all homeopathy has got going for it – pure ideology.

            “I am pretty sure if many of the ultradilutions clinical trials were repeated with 3X then there would be positive outcomes.”

            This is pure speculation with absolutely nothing to back it up. More Tooth Fairy Science. Typical of homeopaths – just make it up as you go along why don’t you?
            There is absolutely no reason to suppose homeopathy would work from basic principles – it is an idiotic idea!
            There is a vast amount of scientific evidence in terms of trials that HAS FAILED TO DEMONSTRATE THAT IT WORKS!
            There is zero evidence that homeopathy can treat any disease. Period.
            Which bit of that do you not understand?

            It doesn’t matter how much or how little you dilute it. The basic idea if flawed. The law of similars isn’t a “Law.” Hahnemann just made the bloody thing up! And the rest of you have been chasing your tails ever since because you never thought to question the basic premise, you just took it as read. A little bit of critical thinking and scepticism would go a long way.

          • @David Harrison:

            “I am pretty sure if many of the ultradilutions clinical trials were repeated with 3X then there would be positive outcomes.”

            What David Harrison is “pretty sure” of, doesn’t cut it as validating a treatment, Mr Harrison! It doesn’t constitute an evidence base!

            However, since you are so sure, do the trials, and publish the results.

            The use of 3X is surely well outside the mainstram of homeopathic opinion and practice. 30C and above are MUCH more usual.

      • The numbers are staggering. “Studies have consistently shown that 20 percent to 30 percent of medication prescriptions are never filled, and that approximately 50 percent of medications for chronic disease are not taken as prescribed,” according to a review in Annals of Internal Medicine.https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/17/well/the-cost-of-not-taking-your-medicine.html#:~:text=The%20numbers%20are%20staggering.,in%20Annals%20of%20Internal%20Medicine.

        • And what do studies show about patient complience with CAM medicines?

          “50 percent of medications for chronic disease are not taken as prescribed” can mean that they are taken, but not in the manner prescribed.

          As an example, a person near me with atopic eczema (a tendency of the skin to dryness and inflammatory responses due to abnormalities of the immune response and other factors) had been prescribed an oily bath additive as part of his maintenance regimen, and instead of putting it in the bathwater, he was applying it directly to his skin. He used the medicine, but not “as precribed”.

      • @ David Harrison

        ” All your comments can just as easily be applied to the medical profession , as 50% of the UK population throw their medications away , wasting £8 billion pounds a year , it amazes me that you think everything in the NHS is rosy. I wish there were some original thinkers on this site , and not just recycling very old outdated arguments.It adds nothing to the debate.”

        your response is totally erroneous as well as irrational and illogical. You are the one adding nothing whatsoever to the debate – all you have done is to moan and be negative. What pearls of wisdom exactly have YOU dropped?
        please try re-reading what I wrote and applying it to HRH’s comments.

        HRH is alleging that people are suffering because they are missing out by not being given SCAM therapies which could relieve their suffering if only doctors were enlightened enough to dispense them.
        But HRH is deluded. SCAM therapies DON’T WORK. This is a matter of fact. This has been established many times in many trials over a long period of time.
        The fact that HRH is under-powered in the grey matter department under-educated and badly misinformed doesn’t help.

        So he is just plain WRONG. No suffering would be alleviated by the dispensing of SCAM therapies because at best all they have is a placebo effect.

        By contrast in general, in order to be licensed, drug therapies and other treatments need to demonstrate an efficacy greater than placebo or than an existing therapy. They also need to establish a safety profile.
        By way of great contrast with SCAM – scientific and evidence based medicine is constantly striving to improve – witness the scientific literature which out-numbers by a staggering magnitude the SCAM literature with rigorous studies looking at various aspects of disease and therapeutics, safety etc.

        Look at VAERS and the Yellow Card systems – safety reporting systems which have absolutely NO parallel in SCAM because they deliberately choose not to record or report mishaps or side-effects, keeping them hidden.
        Look at “informed consent” which is so often absent or a bad joke in SCAM compared with conventional medicine.

        You are the one who lacks original thinking and seems incapable of even reading the comments accurately. I suggest you do so before posting wildly inaccurate screeds.
        Nowhere did I say everything in the NHS is “rosy.” If you don’t like it on this blog then take yourself off somewhere else with your curmudgeonly ways.

        Conventional medicine and the NHS are far from perfect. But that doesn’t mean SCAM is the answer But this blog is about SCAM or are you too blinkered and obsessed with your own opinions to have figured that out already?

        But just because there are problems with the airline industry doesn’t mean we should look into switching to flying carpets does it? If you wish to complain about the NHS there are plenty of other blogs that you might find more congenial.

  • “If alternative medicine worked, it would be ‘medicine’.”

  • Alternative medicine is so far removed from the realities of healthcare that it wouild be a joke if there weren’t so many people who believed in it. Can you imagine alternative car mechanics? Alternative rocket science? Alternative bridge design and building? Alternative computers? Alternative linguists and translators? Alternative sewage and water companies?

    • That is a great point.
      I believe the Covid-19 anti-vaccine crowd is like Prince Charles. These people think that a Facebook group knows more about the safety of a vaccine then the epidemiologists that are at the top of their field. Does that make any sense at all?

      • Kate on Tuesday 23 March 2021 at 15:28

        “I believe the Covid-19 anti-vaccine crowd is like Prince Charles.”

        Not really.

        https://www.bitchute.com/video/siDonw0W4YZc/

        This doctor has been called out as “anti-vaxxer”. A label. This is easy.

        His comments about vaccines are not contested. That would have been the right way.

        • @ I KRISHNA

          most of what this loon is saying is BS – he is plugging IVERMECTIN FFS!!! This has been well and truly debunked. In order to get adequate viricidal levels in the lungs you would have to give x 100 times the normal human dose – and given the side-effects of ivermectin at normal dosage this would be highly toxic.

          like you this guy is an idiot – no wonder you would pick him out.

          Is there any crackpot on the internet that you don’t believe?

          • @john travis

            If I may ask you John. What does he have to gain by “plugging” Ivermectin ? …. hmmm.

            Please do tell

          • @ Listener

            do people always have to have a personal gain to be plugging nonsense remedies?
            Are you saying we should believe his nonsense just because he may not have a profit motive? For all I know maybe he does.
            That is a ridiculous line of thinking. It means that we should believe every fantasist and liar who does not have a personal financial stake in their fantasies or lies?

            My point is that ivermectin is well established to be useless in the treatment of Covid-19 on the available evidence. And beyond that it would likely be far too toxic at doses required to achieve viricidal levels in lung tissue in any event. Period.

            SO whatever his motive may be he is talking out of his ass. In my experience this is a not uncommon occurrence. People who have silly ideas often become evangelical about them. Look at HRH.
            See here:

            https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19

            https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statement-on-ivermectin-use-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/

            https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.26.21250420v1

            https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/03/ivermectin-doesnt-speed-recovery-mild-covid-19-study-shows

            https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-03-eu-drug-ivermectin-covid.html

            https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/news/ivermectin-anti-parasite-use-covid-19/

          • @Listener

            “If I may ask you John. What does he have to gain by “plugging” Ivermectin ? …. hmmm.

            Please do tell”.

            Self-esteem and the false impression of being knowledgeable.

          • I have often wondered what Andrew Wakefield has to gain by spreading his antivaccine lies. He is clearly a narcissist and loves the attention, and seems to get a kick out of convincing parents that they are to blame for their child’s autism or whatever.

            Serial killers clearly enjoy the power they have over other people. One of the worst ever was family doctor Harold Shipman, who is known to have killed over 200 of his own patients. However, through his anti-vaccine efforts Wakefield has been responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of children from measles worldwide. This puts him in the league of despots such as Idi Amin, though obviously nowhere near Stalin or Mao. He is an intelligent man, medically trained and must surely be aware of this.

          • @David B

            For the sake of argument, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, Dr. Cole is about appearing to be knowledgeable.
            Soooo, beyond that, what part of his presentation do you disagree with… specifically.

          • @john travis

            John, I had to laugh.
            The first link you provided that I clicked on…. first paragraph.
            “COVID-19. We’ve been living with it for what sometimes seems like forever. Given the number of deaths that have occurred from the disease, it’s perhaps not surprising that some consumers are looking at unconventional treatments, not approved or authorized by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). ”

            All of the current covid-19 vaccines are not FDA approved either, but that isn’t stopping the authorities from injecting hundreds of millions of patients with vaccines…. you gotta laugh…. but it’s actually a serious matter.

          • john travis on Tuesday 23 March 2021 at 16:31

            “Is there any crackpot on the internet that you don’t believe?”

            YOU.

          • @Listener,

            How kind and gracious of you to give me the benefit of the doubt…..

            My mistake, I thought the “what does he get from it” question pertained to I KRISHNA.

            I can’t find anything by way of reputable articles published in credible high-impact Journals, about Dr. Cole’s claims. IS he really saying that all you need in order to prevent Covid-19 is Vitamin D, and all you need to treat it if you didn’t take your Vitamin D, is Ivermectin? “Whereever it’s been given in the world, they’re back to normal life” (around 18:10) seems an extraordinary claim, as does the preceding comment about a Province in India.

          • I happened to catch BBC Radio 4’s excellent programme “Health Matters” today. A very interesting edition, about the Recovery Trial and Covid 19. This is about real medical science making real discoveries that make a real difference to patients. It is available to listen at https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000tccg

          • @john travis

            yes John, you nailed it. I’ll agree that as he states it, it’s slightly overstated. Disease in most cases comes as the result of too much of something, or not enough of something other. The immune system is far to complicated to arrive at a panacea that easily.

            Many countries, such as the mentioned India leave us quite surprised. It appears the Indian government attacked the problem from a different perspective…. to their credit. Many here at this forum have been waiting for a bomb to go off in India, it appears it won’t.

            Here is a long read on Vitamin D and sunlight.
            I personally don’t think the cows milk is part of the treatment, your opinion may vary.
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3897598/

          • @ I KRISHNA

            SInce this is a press release by the FLCCC I wouldn’t believe a word of it. They are a bunch of maverick physicians with fringe views – you do have a knack for picking unreliable sources with little to no credibility don’t you? How often have I told you that you have to bone up on your critical thinking skills and your ability to distinguish reliable from unreliable sources on the net? Skepticism is a sine qua non when dealing with the internet and pseudoscience – but you are as gullible as a new born baby. But here you go yet again believing any old rubbish you find as long as it confirms your own views!

            They don’t have a shred of respectability or integrity and have been a loose cannon since the start of the pandemic. They have been touting various protocols with no scientific basis all along – e.g. MATH+, for methylprednisolone, ascorbic acid, thiamine, and heparin, plus a statin, zinc, vitamin D, famotidine, melatonin, and magnesium. Even if it worked how are you supposed to know which of the ingredients if any was the active one?

            They don’t believe in RCTs -“Everyone in medicine will yell and scream that this paper is not a randomized controlled trial,” or RCT, said the third FLCCC leader, Pierre Kory, MD, a critical care physician who worked most recently at Aurora St. Luke’s Medical Center in Milwaukee (more on that below). “We didn’t believe in an RCT. We believe we’re supposed to doctor and use our expertise. If you’ve been doing this for decades, and you trust your assessment of the disease and your knowledge of medicine, it’s OK to doctor.”

            So to hell with science and evidence – they just “know” when they’re right! Sounds just like you, Krishna!

            The NIH position hasn’t changed. Their last update on the matter was issued on 11th February 2021. What they have said is that there ISN’T ENOUGH EVIDENCE FROM STUDIES TO TELL EITHER WAY WHETHER OR NOT IVERMECTIN IS OF ANY USE IN THE TREATMENT OF COVID-19. IT HASN’T BEEN TESTED IN SUFFICIENT STUDIES. THE DATA SIMPLY ISN’T THERE.
            In which case it is irresponsible to recommend it’s use in the treatment of Covid patients outside the case of strictly controlled clinical trials.

            What the FLCCC is doing, in their typically underhand, deceptive, flamboyant and ill-judged manner is pretending that ivermectin is now a potential treatment for Covid-19 backed by the NIH – WHEN THAT IS SIMPLY NOT THE CASE.
            Their press release even states that this situation “MAY” lead to emergency use authorization by the FDA even though the FDA has already clearly stated that there is insufficient evidence to justify its use in treating Covid.

            All the studies that have been done so far have shown a lack of efficacy for treating Covid even in much higher doses than normally used in humans. (x 10 normal dose.) It has been calculated that to achieve viricidal levels in pulmonary tissue x 100 times the normal human dose would need to be given which is likely to be toxic.
            Ivermectin is viricidal in a petrie dish – but so hydrochloric acid and a Colt 45 – however neither of these is being touted as a possible cure for Covid either.

            This statement by the FLCCC is in line with their previous statements in being misleading, light of science and irresponsible. This is why it is very important to check one’s sources PRIOR to just passing them on to others, especially on to a forum read by many other people.
            Can you not see that this is how so much misinformation is spread on social media? Misinformed, gullible idiots jumping on pieces of misinformation and immediately passing it on to multiple others without bothering to check if it is from a reliable source, if it is true, if there could be any mistakes, or if the person disseminating the info could have an ulterior motive.

            Just proliferating junk, lies and rank misinformation in the way you do is lazy, uninformed, ignorant and dangerous. It just contributes to the pile of misinformation and junk that already clutters the internet and creates more work for those of us who try to debunk some of this nonsense.

            Please try to be at least a little more selective in the link that you spew out at random – you could at least TRY to check if they are likely to be true before you press SEND!

      • @ Kate

        you’re absolutely right – it’s the death of expertise. These days anybody with a social media account is an expert.

        Nobody respects people who actually have studies this stuff – in fact the less you know the more you believe you can harangue the actual experts. HRH being a case in point.

  • I had my first Covid vaccination today (the AstraZeneca vaccine). I was delighted to get it, and mused on the fact that medical science has identified the virus and its variants, and come up with (I think) about 7 vaccines worldwide, all in the space of ten months.

    I reflect that the H1N1 virus that caused “Spanish Flu” a century ago, killed between 50 and 100 million (no-one knows the exact number) in a year and a half, from a considerably smaller and more spread-out world population without mass air travel. In today’s much larger population with so many populous cities and so much travel, leaving everything to homeopathy and other modalities that don’t work better than placebo, and never discovered what a virus was or what to do about it, would have resulted in unthinkable millions of deaths.

  • @ Listener

    the vaccines have been given Emergency Use FDA Authorization – so what are you talking about?

  • @ I KRISHNA

    then that just demonstrates how little discrimination you have – you can’t tell fact from fiction – all you believe are lies and the bigger the lies the more likely you are to believe them!

    you have zero powers of critical thinking

  • @ Listener

    there have been numerous studies done on Vitamin D – it has been clearly established that there is no added benefit from treatment with Vit D in Covid in spit of all the hype.

    some people just never learn

  • @john travis

    John are you daft ?

    Vitamin D is a PREVENTATIVE measure for many illnesses…. not a treatment. Did somebody say it was a treatment ? Perhaps you’ve heard of cancer treatment and cancer prevention.

    As for the FDA. You need to educate yourself about the difference between FDA Approval and FDA EUA, they are NOT the same. I repeat, the FDA has not approved any vaccines for Covid-19.

    • @ Listener

      don’t tell me what I need to educate myself about.
      you are splitting hairs – the vaccines have been assessed for safety and efficacy – they have been approved for administration by the US FDA and the UK MHRA – it is a distinction without a difference and is being used by people like yourself to sow doubt and distrust where none is necessary or useful.
      Go peddle your nonsense somewhere else.

      Nobody is questioning that is is healthy to have Vit D levels that are within the normal range.
      But there is no evidence that additional Vit D is at all beneficial in preventing Covid-19 – so this is yet more garbage.
      The pandemic has brought out all the alt-med and pseudoscience loons with their pet theories of cure-alls just like there have always been snake oil salesmen touting their miracle bottles that will cures whatever ailment was going the rounds – and that would miraculously change to suit whatever happened to be the malady of the moment.

      You need to get better at discriminating the noise from the facts and the real science from the pseudoscientific babble.

      • As an educational aid I thought I would post a list of the august institutions who have stated their opinions in no uncertain terms on the matter of Homeopathy. As you can see some have by no means minced their words. These are some of the most highly regarded institutions of academic medicine in the world.
        NB Note that even NICCAM is amongst them! Even their own SCAM Research Institute doesn’t believe in them!

        National Health Service (U.K.)

        NATIONAL INSTITUTE for CLINICAL EXCELLENCE UK found no evidence for treating any condition

        American Medical Association

        Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology (FASEB)

        National Health and Medical Research Council of Australia – have concluded that “there is no good-quality evidence that homeopathy is effective as a treatment for any health condition.”

        The American College of Medical Toxicology

        American Academy of Clinical Toxology

        The Russian Academy of Sciences claims that homeopathy is “a dangerous pseudoscience that does not work.”

        U.S. National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM) – The acting director says “there is no condition for which homeopathy has been proven to be an effective treatment.” The NCCAM has issued a statement on homeopathy: “It is not possible to explain in scientific terms how a preparation containing little or no active ingredient can have any effect. This, in turn, creates major challenges to the rigorous clinical investigation of homeopathic preparations.”

        The British House of Commons Science and Technology Committee states “In our view, the systematic reviews and meta-analyses conclusively demonstrate that homeopathic products perform no better than placebos.”

        The Australian National Health and Medical Research Council concluded that there were no health conditions with reliable evidence that homeopathy was effective.
        No reliable studies existed that showed homeopathy with better results than placebos, or that gave an improvement in health equal to another treatment.

        Based on complaints from the Center For Inquiry (CFI) organization, in 2016 the U.S. Federal Trade Commission (FTC) required that homeopathic products cannot include claims of effectiveness without “competent and reliable scientific evidence.” CFI and the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry (CSI) asked the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to issue warnings to Boiron for marketing tactics associated with their product Oscillococcinum, a “homeopathic flu vaccine.” In March 2012, Boiron agreed to spend up to $12 million to settle claims of false advertisement for its homeopathic preparations.

        However is spite of this massed academic knowledge I am quite sure they will all be happy to change their collective opinions when faced with the weight of knowledge and argument of the Society of Homeopaths…….
        QED

  • @john travis

    “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure”
    I already provided the link for evidence that indicates the importance of vitamin D. Don’t be naive, there is not one size fits all requirement for everyone, you should be smart enough to know that. Does cancer therapy treat every patient the same, with the same dose ? … a resounding no. Is the vitamin D requirement for a person in their 70’s the same requirement as a young person ? Large person or small ? … male or female. However, the great thing about vitamin D is that it’s difficult to overdose.

    There is a huge difference between FDA approval and EUA, if it were not so, there would be much more EUA’s that have been granted. If you compared the amount of EUA that have ever been granted, as compared to FDA approvals, EUA’s would not even show up on a chart.

    The authorities granting use of these new mRNA vaccine have moved the goal posts. Normally safety is the number one criteria, however safety is lowered to the bottom of the heap when granting EUA.
    So, in effect the science standard that was, is suddenly not there.

    I’m not anti-vax, but I am for safe vaccines. I already got jabbed with the Jannsen Vaccine. I sought out the Jannsen deliberately so I would NOT get injected with an mRNA vaccine.

    Prior to the covid-19 vaccine, Moderna had never before even created one therapeutic, much less a vaccine so advanced. … and untested…. hmm. The authorities granting the use of mRNA do not know what will be the outcome since they have never been used previously, nor were they sufficiently tested.
    Furthermore, the pharma corps producing the vaccines under EUA will not have any liability if and when people begin experiencing health problems due to a compromised immune system response due to the mRNA vaccines.

    How great is that for Pharma-corp ?

    • @ Listener

      “the importance of vitamin D. Don’t be naive, there is not one size fits all requirement for everyone,”

      so you are blindly, without evidence, suggesting like all alt medssites that more is better! You do know that Vit D in excess is dangerous don’t you? There is an optimum dose. Let people take that and be done with it.
      There is zero evidence that excess doses of Vit D gives any benefit against Covid – so shut up already.
      Who suggested that everyone should take the same dose? Do you suppose that everyone is as simple minded as a homeopath?

      “However, the great thing about vitamin D is that it’s difficult to overdose.”

      That comment shows that you know nothing about Vitamin D.
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6158375/ – Vitamin D Toxicity

      “There is a huge difference between FDA approval and EUA,”

      If we were to wait for idiots like you to go through the full process of administration and paperwork required for the normal approval process how many more millions would have died by the time the process was finished?
      Sometimes one has to adopt a pragmatic approach. Experts who have examined the safety data from the vaccines have expressed satisfaction that no corners have been cut and that the vaccines are safe. It is only homeopaths and the like who are expressing concern – which of course is hilarious since they wouldn’t recognize a scientific process from a hole in the ground.

      Homeopaths are always happy to invoke “quantum something or other” when it suits them to try to explain away homeopathic weirdness but always fall silent when asked to explain exactly what they mean.

      “The authorities granting use of these new mRNA vaccine have moved the goal posts. Normally safety is the number one criteria,”

      This is simply NOT true. mRNA technology has been around for some time and has been used in a variety of ways. Using it in vaccines may be novel but its use in other way is NOT. It is well known how it behaves in the body. There are no concerns about its safety. Its messenger function is well known and its lifetime will be very short before it is destroyed. Unfortunately it is the ignorance and fear-mongerng of people such as yourself that is quite unnecessarily stoking vaccine hesitancy and refusal among the population – typical behaviour for ill-educated and misinformed homeopaths and typical Dunning Kruger behaviour.
      If people such as yourself could only just accept your ignorance and stop spreading misniformation long enough to LEARN what you do not know then some progress might be made.

      I have had the Pfizer mRNA vaccine with no ill-effects and I have absolutely NO concerns for the future.

      What is truly frightening is the certainty with which homeopaths and the like profess their ignorant and ill-informed views and their refusal to learn anything new.

      “I’m not anti-vax, but I am for safe vaccines” Said EVERY ANTI-VAXXER EVER. This means you are a typical anti-vaxxer. So stop denying it and at least have the decency and the courage to come out and admit it.

      mRNA vaccines are perfectly safe.

      “if and when people begin experiencing health problems due to a compromised immune system response due to the mRNA vaccines”

      do you have a crystal ball? how do you know people will have any problems at all? and why should they?
      all the mRNA vaccine is doing is sending a message to the body’s own cells to produce a protein that is a copy of the spike protein that is on the outer surface of the Covid-19 virus. This will cause your body to produce antibodies to the protein in the same way as if you had been infected with the virus without any of the ill-effects of the infection itself.
      Your cells manufacture proteins in this manner all the time.
      mRNA performs this sort of function in your body all day long every day.
      Tweaking this process is basically no different than the way in which bodily processes are tweaked by using drugs or other methods – it’s just more hi-tech.

      But because of your ignorance of biology and mRNA and how the human body functions, and because of your innate fear of technology and science and things that you can’t understand – and because you prefer the magical thinking that goes with nonsensical stuff like magic water and ridiculous ultradilutions you allow yourself to be frightened by something that is beyond your meagre understanding.
      And because you are at heart an anti-vaxxer – you shout foul.

      Your arguments are irrational. And homeopathy will always be nonsense.
      Just because you can’t understand something doesn’t make it dangerous or wrong.

      If it were left to folks like you we’d still be waiting to discover fire and the wheel – and the first person to do either would probably be burned at the stake.

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