MD, PhD, FMedSci, FRSB, FRCP, FRCPEd.

In this second part of my series ‘Heedless Homeopathy‘, I want to introduce you to some remedies that are based on mother tinctures which might be viewed as less than appetising by some of the more faint-hearted of my readers. Some time ago, we had already discussed that the urethral discharge of a male patient suffering from gonorrhoea is used to make a popular remedy sold under the name of Medorrhinum. But in the ‘revolting range’, homeopathy has more – much more – to offer. Here is a selection of my personal favourites:

Did I put you off homeopathy, because you find these substances disgusting?

Sorry (perhaps some Nux vomica C30?)! But you really need not worry: as with practically all homeopathic remedies, there will be not a single molecule of what it says on the bottle left in the remedy you buy.

Or did I put you off homeopathy, because you find such remedies ridiculous?

No, I am not sorry for that!

In fact, I think it is time that the public learn how silly homeopathy truly is.

 

 

PS

I do hope they pay a good salary to the man who has to collect the tiger urine!

 

73 Responses to Heedless Homeopathy. Part 2: Revolting Remedies

  • Ah, Meconium. Never forget ‘Dr.’ Paul Theriault ND (i.e. Not a Doctor)’s heroic proving:

    https://leeturnpenny.com/2015/11/17/a-homeopath-talks-shite/

    • I miss Paul. We used to have some fairly lively “conversations” on Twitter until he blocked me some time ago. He really doesn’t like critical thinkers showing up in his timeline. He is of particular interest to me because he is spreading that nonsense in the neighbourhood where I grew up.

  • Was the “Semen humanum” ‘mother tincture’ with or without gametes? What difference might it make, conceptually?

    • You just stumbled upon one of the many problems with homeopathic dilutions: in many cases, the base substance (or mother tincture if you will) is a non-homogenous mixture of many constituent substances and structures, which may contain anything from simple ions and soluble salts to more complex molecules such as enzymes and proteins to complete viruses, bacteria and cells. A simple drop of blood contains almost all these things.

      Diluting such a mixture even with plain water often causes profound changes: cells will rupture due to osmotic pressure, proteins start behaving differently (e.g. they start sticking to surfaces) and so on. Also, the larger, less prevalent components such as cells will be completely diluted away far earlier on than more numerous things such as small molecules.

      And yet homeopaths still insist that the ‘imprint’ of the mother tincture is not only perfectly preserved but even enhanced during the delusion process … (yes, pun intended).

  • Hello Doctor
    Have you included rabid dog saliva anywhere? We had a case in Vancouver, BC.

    This was not disgusting; it was outright terrifying.

    https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/b-c-homeopath-s-claims-she-used-rabid-dog-saliva-to-treat-boy-sparks-concern-1.3889639

  • What a ridiculous post. Let me tell you of some horrible allopathic medicines.

    Vioxx: Up to half a million people murdered with this drug.
    Percocet, Vicodin, and OxyContin: Pushed by manufacturers even tho they knew they were Killing hundreds of thousands
    DES: causes cancer in the Daughters of mothers who took it.
    Thalidomide: horrible birth defects for thousands of babies; missing limbs etc.
    Statins: prescribed for millions of people with no long term health benefit, but lots of side effects, and expense.
    Anti-depressants: side effects include suicidal and homicidal ideation which people can act on; many mass murderers have been known to be on them at the time of their shooting sprees.
    Gates and Co. were asked to pull out of India because the vaccines they were giving were sterilizing women.
    Allopathic medicine in general: Largest cause of bankruptcy in the USA.

    The difference between a medicine and a poison is the dose. For a homeopathic remedy all one is getting is the energy of the substance, not the substance, so no matter how “gross” it may sound there is no harm.
    On the other hand these allopathic drugs may have nice anodyne names but they really debilitate, maim and kill.

    • I was wondering where you were Roger; thank you for this. I did expect nothing less of you.

      • and while you are here, you could answer the question from part 1, please.

        • They dont put me off because they are disgusting substances or because they “sound” ridiculous.

          I have recently used Medorrinhum for a boy who had a disgusting open abscess on his butt for months. It cleared up in a couple weeks and his mood improved which made his mother quite happy. The results were not disgusting at all.

          I havent used the other remedies that you list but I have used Lac leoninum (lion’s milk) for a woman who had a blown spinal disk and was in constant pain at about a level of 8 of 10 constantly. Within a month or so the pain was down to about 2 of 10.

          The results of homeopathy are not silly. Anyone with some curiosity can visit doctor or medical school clinics and see the serious results.
          What is silly is taking a partially homeopathic conventional drug repeatedly that suppresses symptoms and causes lots of serious side effects including impoverishing the patient.

          • care to answer the question at the end of the previous post?

          • @Roger

            An abscess for months? This sounds like an exaggeration, something homeopaths like and have to do.

            It cleared up in a couple of weeks? Thanks to Medorrhinum (check your spelling) or thanks to time?

            Yes, your explanation of the results seem silly to me.

            Frankly, these “remedies” Dr. Ernst list are disgusting. But not nearly as disgusting as the homeopranks you pull on people in need of real medical help.

          • You will have to repeat the question “from the previous post”. I dont see it.

          • are you blind?
            Now, here is my question to those ‘nano-homeopaths’:

            HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE MODE OF ACTION OF ANY OF THE ABOVE-LISTED REMEDIES?

          • I have recently used ‘Medorrinhum for a boy who had a disgusting open abscess on his butt for months. It cleared up in a couple weeks and his mood improved which made his mother quite happy. The results were not disgusting at all.’

            What utter, unsubstantiable shite!

          • This 3 yr old boy’s abscess would open up on a weekly basis and this happened for months. Three months later after a single dose of 1M Medorrhinum, the mother reported that he had had the abscess only once in the interim. 7 months later, it has still not recurred.

          • Great anecdote, Roger, but as you know, anecdotes are just “dirty data” because there are so many variables we cannot identify. (Credit to Jonathan Jarry at McGill University’s Office of Science and Society for that description.)

            Perhaps the parents started bathing the child regularly. That may have helped. Maybe she dipped his arse in a bowl of goat milk every day. Perhaps other things happened that contributed to change that we are not aware of. We just don’t know (although yo think you do).

            To think that a few drops of snorted concussed water is what it took to make the change is just nuts.

            I don’t know why I continue to respond to you, Roger. Trying to knock sense into your head is like trying to teach my bunny to juggle. After a while, a person has to realize how impossible it is.

          • Again – utter, unsubstantiable shite!

            You provide nothing that could convince as to the veracity of your silly assertion; and certainly nothing that convinces it had anything to do with homeopathy. And you litter this thread with irrelevant whataboutery.
            How do you know it works?

        • I answered this below:
          HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE MODE OF ACTION OF ANY OF THE ABOVE-LISTED REMEDIES?

          But I guess you are asking for mechanical explanation.
          How do you explain the mode of action of the proton/electron force of attraction?

          The effect of any homeopathic remedy (or any medicine) is identified by changes that occur in living beings – mental, emotional and physical. Like many other phenomena in the universe, we know it by its effects, period. Anyone taking a medicine/remedy can observe personally, the primary action followed by the secondary reaction when it wears off.

          Anyone with some curiosity can do a homeopathic proving and experience it for themselves.

    • There are no such things as ‘allopathic medicines’.

    • “all one is getting is the energy of the substance”.

      What is “the energy of the substance”? Please answer in terms that are not tautological.

      • Every medicinal substance or remedy has a Primary Action; it causes symptoms. The body responds with a Secondary Reaction when it wears off. Primary Action of coffee is as an upper; when it wears off typically people crash and want more. You can know the energy of the substance through the response of the living being.

        Just like many phenomena that science cant explain yet (like dark energy & matter, consciousness, etc.), we know it by its effects.

        • … except it is not true!

          • What is not true?
            Anyone with some curiosity can experience the action of extremely dilute homeopathic remedies, by doing a homeopathic proving. Take a highly diluted remedy repeatedly over several days until new symptoms – mental, emotional and physical – start to occur. After stopping the remedy those new symptoms will wear off leaving one in one’s original state of health. Its a repeatable experiment anyone can do.

          • it works for you because you expect it to work.
            it does not work for me.
            and it does not work if you are blinded – if it did, you could collect a lot of money. why don’t you?
            https://edzardernst.com/2018/05/are-you-a-homeopath-this-is-how-you-can-get-rich-quickly/

          • care to answer the question at the end of the previous post?

          • If it worked because you expected it to work, then how would 20-30 provers have similar symptoms? There would be no relationship to their symptoms. If it worked because of expectations how come when the Belladonna proving was repeated 100 yrs later all the provers around the world who had no idea what they were taking, had similar symptoms to the original proving?

            What proving did you do? What did you take for how long? Did you have an objective observer who knew your health history? Or did you do like the Less-Than-Amazing Randi and just down a bottle of pills in one go and say “see it doesnt work”.

          • I replied to this post:
            it works for you because you expect it to work.
            it does not work for me.

            It went somewhere into cyberspace. You need new comments software. Its awkward and buggy.

            What proving did you do? Tell me the details of what you took and how you took it.

            Provings with “blinded” provers in different locations have been repeated with the same results. How does that happen?

          • ” Tell me the details of what you took and how you took it.”
            why should I?
            why don’t you go for the 50 000 euros?

        • Roger – do you realize that you are completely delusional?
          That you believe in these totally irrational and magical ultra dilutions that contain no particles of the original substance?
          That there is zero evidence for this so-called “energy” you claim?
          That after 200 years you still cannot come up with any evidence for any of these absurd “remedies?”
          Hahnemann was a delusional megelomaniac and it is extraordinary that people such as yourself are daft enough to still follow him – Berlin wall – Tiger urine – you might as well be witch doctors from some undiscovered pre-historic tribe completely untouched by science.
          Pray demonstrate this “energy” whereof you speak!

          Magical thumping on leather or a bible a preset number of times indeed! Water that cannot be distinguished from and other unlabelled bottle! You are all pre-scientific believers in magic!
          Go back and hide under a rock – there is nothing for you here.

          • Mark, do you realize that you have your head up your ass? You arent willing to try out homeopathy on its own grounds. We have been giving you a way to experience it and you keep refusing to do it.

        • Am I right in thinking, then, Roger, that you are using the word “energy” to have a meaning something like this definition for “energy” as used in physics:

          “the property of matter and radiation which is manifest as a capacity to perform work (such as causing motion or the interaction of molecules)”?

          You are suggesting, I think, that a property of matter and/or radiation exists which has not yet successfully been observed, identified, named, or measured?

          You think this property must exist because physiological effects have been noted which can only be explained by this unidentified “energy” or property. Is my understanding of your view correct?

          • Yes, we know the effect of medicinal substances/remedies by the changes that occur in the individuals that take them. These changes occur on all levels – mental, emotional and physical. They last for a period of time and then wear off (the “energy” of the substance dissipates) and the individual returns to their original state of health. This is a repeatable experiment. Different individuals taking the same medicine/remedy experience similar effects and some effects that are unique to the individual. A compilation of all the symptoms that all individuals experience taking that medicine/remedy gives a complete picture of how the energy of that medicine/remedy can alter health. That is what homeopaths do in a homeopathic proving. That is what allopaths do when they experiment on thousands of sick individuals during a trial, only they call the undesired symptoms “side effects”.

    • Yes, real medicine has real effects – and real side effects.
      Real medicine is NOT a guaranteed harmless magical cure because it actually does real things.
      Real medicine is the often difficult weighing of harm by not intervening vs. harm caused by the actual intervention.

      For a homeopathic remedy all one is getting is the energy of the substance

      OK, I have some questions here.
      1. What is this energy you’re talking about? As a scientist, I’m aware of only one definition of energy, and that is that it is a scalar value representing the capability to do a certain amount of work. Clearly, you are referring to something completely different. (And why call it ‘energy’ then?)
      2. Can you describe its general properties?
      3. How can it be detected and perhaps even measured? And why has no-one, homeopaths included, ever succeeded in demonstrating the existence of this energy?
      4. How is it transferred?
      5. Why does this energy increase in intensity(?) and/or concentration(?) when the presumptive carrier (i.e. the homeopathic ‘remedy’ or its ‘low-potency’ precursor) is diluted? And why has no-one, homeopaths included, ever succeeded in demonstrating this rather bizarre phenomenon?
      6. How can it have completely opposite effects, depending on the state of health of a person?
      7. In what way is this ‘energy’ structured? (As it is supposed to be highly specific for certain symptoms, it must have a highly intricate structure.)
      8. How can this ‘energy’ be extracted and preserved only when the shaking and diluting is done by homeopaths, but not by nature? (Where shaking and diluting happen almost continuously to all bodies of water.)
      9. Why can’t anyone, homeopaths included, determine if this energy is present in a dilution or not? IOW, why is it impossible for anyone, homeopaths, scientists and patients alike, to distinguish between a homeopathic ‘remedy’, and plain water?

      I would appreciate if you could provide detailed answers to each of these questions. And oh, please don’t bother to reply if you have no real answers, as that would save me some time and aggravation, and you quite a bit of embarrassment.

      • I already answered this above, mostly:
        Every medicinal substance or remedy has a Primary Action; it causes symptoms. The body responds with a Secondary Reaction when it wears off. Primary Action of coffee is as an upper; when it wears off typically people crash. You can know the energy of the substance through the response of the living beings.

        Just like many phenomena that science cant explain yet (like dark energy & matter, consciousness, Life itself, etc.), we know it by its effects. All medicinal substances (all substances actually) whether “homeopathicaly” potentized or not, have the same Action/Reaction effect on living beings. That is the General property of this energy.

        3) Its demonstrated/detected every time we take a medicine.
        4) No one knows yet, what the carrier is. Originally it is present in substance.
        5) We dont know why the intensity increases with potentization. We know that it does by observing the increased effect on living beings.
        6) It has the same effect whether the person is healthy or sick; Primary Action followed by Secondary Reaction.
        The secondary reaction is curative IF the primary action is homeopathic (i.e. similar) to the original state – mential, emotional and physical of the sick person. As for the effect on the healthy person they develop symptoms of the Primary Action (a Proving) and just return to their prior state of health after the secondary reaction wears off.
        7) We only know it by its effects, not by any structure. What is the “structure” of the proton/electron attraction?
        8) Its present in any substance, more notably in strongly medicinal substances; it just becomes more pronounced and divorced from the substance with the homeopathic potentization process of dilution and succussion.
        9) Laboratory scientists have claimied that they can identify a weak electromagnetic field in potentized remedies that is not present in placebo. Others claim that nano-particles are present. Others have shown that solvatochromic dyes change color with different extreme dilutions. None of this, IMO, implies that these are the mechanisms. They are just more observable effects of this energy.

        Why dont you just, out of curiosity, experience it for yourself by doing a homeopathic proving of a highly potentized remedy, instead of asking a bunch of questions?

        • Sorry Roger, old friend, but your answers are exactly what I expected: ludicrous claims without even the smallest shred of evidence (also notice the caption at the top of this page). Lies, in other words. And no, lies don’t turn into truth by endlessly repeating them, just as arbitrary substances don’t turn into medicines by endlessly diluting them.

          None the ‘effects’ that you mention have actually been observed, documented or measured in any acceptable scientific manner, that is the whole problem with homeopathy. There are only eyewitness accounts from severely deluded fools like yourself, who claim that they see those things happen all the time, but for some reason can never make them happen when scientists are looking.

          • Every drug you have taken has a Primary Action and Secondary Reaction. Have you never drunk a cup of Coffee? What is it like when you are first feeling its effects? What is it like when it wears off and you need another cup? You are either lying or completely lacking in self-observational abilities.

          • @Roger

            Every drug you have taken has a Primary Action and Secondary Reaction

            Well, I must say that you have a very imaginative and productive posterior … I can almost smell the BS from here.

          • Ok, Richard, then tell me how coffee, or pot, or any other strong drug you have taken, affects you from the beginning when you first take it, to the end when you return to your former state of mental, emotional and physical health, in detail.

            I could probably show you online evidence from millions of people how they experience the high and following crash from taking coffee, pot, heroine, cocaine, opiates or any of numerous popular drugs. Explain to me how that is bs?

            In the same way I can show you homeopathic provings of these substances cause the same effects. Just because you dont want to get your head out of your ass and look, doesnt mean its not happening. Like most of the SS (so-called skeptics) you prefer to live in your imaginings instead of the real world.

      • I answered this post extensively and its gone in cyberspace. I repeat that you need to get better comments software.

        • I was applying updates to the website last night so you may have been writing your comment when I took it offline.

          If you lost the text, you may like to look into browser extensions that save entries in form fields so you don’t lose the text and can re-post it.

    • @Roger

      Gates and Co. were asked to pull out of India because the vaccines they were giving were sterilizing women.

      Like most (all?) of what you say, this is made up. Please see https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/gates-org-kicked-out-of-india/

      You are easily fooled, my friend. But I’ve known that for a long time.

      You also mention that many mass murderers have been known to be on antidepressants at the time of their shooting sprees. They also drank water prior to these events. Maybe homeopathy was the real reason. You might want to look into that.

      • Hey my friend, just look in the “side effects” of these so-called antidepressants. Snopes stops looking after they have read the NYT. I dont call that fact checking. That is preconceived bias checking.

        • @Roger

          As I just wrote to @RG after his delusional display, you are entitled to dismiss the facts when they don’t agree with your fantasies, but it does make you look rather silly.

      • Ok, Ron, here is where things stand:
        “….in India, a Gates-funded trial on the genital cancer-causing disease Human papilloma virus was cancelled by the government because thousands of girls aged 10-14 were victims of ethics violations such as forged consent forms and lack of health insurance; seven died. The case is now in the country’s Supreme Court.”
        Close enough!
        https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/vaccine-program-betrayal-public-trust-institutional-corruption-part-3-7/

        • @Roger

          Okay, Roger, here is where we stand.

          Children’s Health Defense? Really? RFK, Jr. is as wacky as you are.

          You know I’d like to buy in, Rog, but I’m struggling to wrap my head around the fact that the real purpose of vaccine programs is to kill children and make evil people such as Bill and Melinda Gates rich.

          That you read the CHD crap as “the truth” speaks volumes about your reasoning skills. But this is rather old news so I’ll just leave it there.

  • @Ron Jette

    Ron, Snopes is as reliable for unbiased reporting as CNN. In other words, forget it, you’re not getting the truth.

    • Roger & RG

      You are entitled to your own opinions. You are not entitled to your own facts.

      When you disagree with evidenced facts on an evidenced fact-checking website, it is not the website which is wrong.

      it is a terrible shame when reality fails to conform to your delusions.

    • RG, is it your belief, then, that the Gates Foundation WAS ‘kicked out of India’? And that it no longer operates there?

      • @David B

        David, how would I know if the Gates foundation was “kicked out of India”

        In this day and age, journalism is completely unreliable, most all sources have an agenda. Certainly Bill Gates and his foundation have ample resources to convince many to believe what he wants them to believe. What I do know is that I don’t trust Snopes to be impartial.
        “believe half of what you see and none of what you hear”

        that’s what I BELIEVE !

        • RG, I had assumed because of your response to Ron Jette about Snopes, that you believed Roger to be correct in saying “Gates and Co. were asked to pull out of India because the vaccines they were giving were sterilizing women”, and Snopes to be wrong.

    • @RG

      When the facts don’t agree with your fantasies, you simply dismiss them. You’re entitled to do that. But it does make you look rather silly.

  • @Roger asked Ernst ” Tell me the details of what (remedy) you took and how you took it.”

    Ernst replied: ”Why should I?”

    Conclusion: Based on the admonition at the top of his blog: Ernst is a hypocrit. “Please remember: if you make a claim in a comment, support it with evidence.”

    • oh my dear Sandra,
      he does not want evidence that I did provings (such evidence does not exist); he wants to know how they were done (I have no intention to discuss with him the methodology).

      • @Ernst, my friend

        You need to read the question again. Roger asked:

        “What proving did you do? Tell me the details of what you took and how you took it.”

        I too have questions for you…..

        Have you ever participated in a homeopathic proving? If not, how can you otherwise stand by your definitive declatory statement above that “It does not work for me.”?

        • TELL ME THE DETAIL…!!!
          Have you ever participated in a homeopathic proving?
          YES

          • No need to yell.

            Since you are a well educated accomplished author, researcher, speaker and evidence collector, it should be easy for you to provide the “supporting evidence” of your claim you participated in a homeopathic proving.

            When one demands a certain standard of conduct be followed by others, they themselves should do likewise. You did not. I think that makes you a hypocrit.

          • how clever of you!
            I already told you there is no evidence.

          • The arch homeopathy propagandist and demonstrable liar Courtney… always looking for opportunity to disingenously slur Ernst’s character. The most base logical fallacising.

          • you have to forgive her, she clearly gets some kind of a kick out of it.

          • We all know that “evidence” is another concept that Sandra struggles with. She sees other people use the word to demolish her arguments and imagines that by using it herself in yet another of her spectacular demonstrations of pompous and high-handed ignorance it will somehow confer validity to her position.

            It does no such thing.

  • Dear Roger, dear Sandra,
    Homeopathy was invented by Dr. Hahnemann about ~1800 in Germany. Big pharmacy in Germany (Bayer, the 2 Boehringers, Merck) started about 1870. If Homeopathy is so overwelming effective for the patients, why could these companies thrive?

    • Good question. Why is CAFO (confined animal feedlot operation) farming thriving, when we know how to grow healthy cattle? Why is RoundUp herbicide sprayed from sea to shining sea in the USA, when we know that it causes disastrous effects both to the environment and our health? Why are the vast majority of cardio doctors still prescribing Statins when the long term benefits are nil, and the side effects are terrible?

      Maybe the answer is that people like you find it easier to go with the flow of conventional medicine, instead of trying homeopathy?

      Sometimes the actions of one very committed person are not enough. But homeopathy has spread around the world and is used by millions of people for their regular medical care for all conditions.

      There is a great medical history by Harris Coulter called Divided Legacy where he talks about the conflict that started as early as the Greeks between so-called Rational medicine and Empirical medicine. Rational, as in making up a rationale for medical issues that may or may not fit with reality, e.g. today’s conventional medicine .

Leave a Reply to Roger Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

Recent Comments

Note that comments can be edited for up to five minutes after they are first submitted but you must tick the box: “Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment.”

The most recent comments from all posts can be seen here.

Archives
Categories