It’s not (yet) a global emergency, the WHO have announced. But 26 fatalities have today been reported, and soon we will have thousands of people infected with the new coronavirus, experts predict. A vaccine will take at least a year to become available, and experts are alarmed.
But there is no need for panic!
Let’s just ask our homeopaths for help. They are excellent with curing viral infections!
You don’t believe me? But it must be true; take this website, for instance; its message could not be clearer :
… Homeopathic remedies can help you in fighting viral infections effectively… Homeopathy can be effective for viral infections including influenza-like symptoms, viral coughs and serious viral infections like herpes cold sores and genital herpes… The most common oral homeopathic remedy for herpes outbreaks is Rhus Toxicodendron (Rhus Tox in short), which is an extremely diluted form of poison ivy…
Another website offers more detail:
Conventional drugs do not offer comprehensive treatments for viral infections. Certain viruses like Influenza, HIV, etc. have tendencies to mutate (change) very rapidly, thereby lowering the effectiveness of such medicines. Additionally, viruses quickly develop resistance to these drugs, making the development of preventive medicine somewhat challenging. Conventional medications therefore only provide supportive management and suppression of the symptoms.
Homeopathic treatment for viral infections helps ease the symptoms and also enables the body to heal naturally.
Homeopathy treatment for viral infections is steadily gaining popularity as a natural way to deal with viral infections. These medicines help reduce the frequency and intensity of acute symptoms like weakness, fever, body pain, etc. These help with quick recovery. In some cases, they reduce the chances of further complications. Homeopathy treatment for viral infections treats the symptoms not by suppressing them, but by strengthening the immune system. It activates the body’s natural restorative properties by producing symptoms similar to the ones experienced by the patients. This method helps settle underlying internal disturbances in the body. Homeopathy treatment for viral infections also minimizes the weakness and fatigue commonly encountered as an aftermath of the infection.
Viral infections are highly communicable and spread rapidly from one person to another. Homeopathy treatment for viral infections is also preventative and helps reduce the chances of contracting the infection.
Yet another website is equally clear:
For viral ailments with symptoms that are fast and violent, use the following homeopathic remedies: Aconitum and Belladonna.
Aconitum – also known as Devil’s helmet or Queen of All Poisons – is a flowering plant that belongs to the family Ranunculacea. The flowers of this plant are harvested and then processed to treat various ailments, including viral infections.
Belladonna – also known as Deadly Nightshade – is a perennial herbaceous plant – prized for its medicinal benefits. It’s used as a muscle relaxant and pain reliever. The plant contains potent anti-inflammatory properties too. It’s an excellent remedy for viral infections.
What, you are still not convinced? In this case, have a look at what a Devon homeopaths stated only yesterday about the current epidemic:
Panic and anger in Wuhan as China orders city into lockdown.
A Coronavirus is a common virus that causes an infection in your nose, sinuses, or upper throat. Most corona viruses are not dangerous, they can in fact just cause symptoms which look like a mild cold. Earlier this month though, the World Health Organization identified a new type (2019-nCoV) in China and to date there have been over 500 confirmed cases of this Corona virus with 17 fatalities reported so far this month. The Media seems to be covering its progress with great relish, causing a lot of panic.
The virus starts with a fever, followed by a dry cough, and then after a week or so this leads to shortness of breath when some patients are hospitalised. Pneumonia is one complication that can be caused by the virus. Most of the information spread about the virus is gained from these severe cases in hospital.
To protect yourself from any virus, you should boost your own immune symptom with a healthy diet and supplements if necessary. I recommend the best vitamin C & D supplements you can get. I also love Fermented Cod Liver Oil and a good Magnesium supplement. Having homeopathic constitutional treatment is also proven to boost your immune system.
Homeopathic remedies can address every symptom caused by this virus so having an inexpensive homeopathy kit at home is an excellent resource. I love the First Aid Kit by Helios Pharmacy which also comes with a booklet to guide you on which remedy to choose. If you have remedies but feel you’re not equipped to use them, get in touch with me and I will send you a free PDF first aid booklet.
Here are a few homeopathic remedies which will be useful to treat viruses such as this one. If you are confident the remedy is well indicated you need to repeat often in a 30C or 200C until it no longer helps, then move onto another if necessary:
Ferrum-phos: give this at the very first sign of symptoms. Useful when you just don’t feel well, tired. Red inflamed eyes, chill with shivering and fever. Hot, burning eyes. Worse cold, better rest.
Gelsemium: This is for when your symptoms start to feel more severe, especially if they have come on gradually. You will feel dull, sluggish, heavy, often with a headache at the back of the neck. Shivering up and down the spine, aching muscles, burning throat. Worse cold, better after urination.
Pulsatilla: You will feel Chilly, even in a warm room. Nose blocked up, bland and thick mucous. Dry mouth with no thirst. Changing, shifting symptoms, weepy and sorry for oneself. You may often have a sore throat or ear ache with viruses. Worse in a warm room, better in the open air.
Camphora: You will feel very cold, and may have laborious, asthmatic breathing with an accumulation of phlegm in the air tubes, cold, dry skin. Total exhaustion, with coldness and shivering. Weak pulse, irritability. Worse cold.
Phosphorous: For any virus which affects your lungs. You may have bloody sputum and crave cold drinks. Burning, pressure and constriction in the chest; worse lying on the left side or painful side. Better in company, needing reassurance.
Bryonia: Excellent in pneumonia or pleurisy, especially when the right side is affected. There is dryness everywhere, dry tongue, with generally a white coating. There may be pain when breathing or coughing where the patient wants to hold steady as any movement hurts. Irritable and thirsty. Better rest, pressure. Worse excitement, bright lights, noise, touch, movement.
This is outrageous, you claim? You insist that homeopathy is bunk, that homeopaths behave irrationally and their remedies are pure placebos? Placebos are no good for life-threatening infections! Anyone who says otherwise is deluded and irresponsible, you suggest.
I see, you might have a point.
Think of the time when homeopaths travelled to Liberia to cure Ebola. That was a homeopathic disaster, if there ever was one. Have homeopaths learnt their lesson since then? Clearly not: there are still hundreds of websites and books promoting homeopathy even for the most serious viral diseases. Do homeopaths provide sound evidence for their claims? I can see none.
Maybe that’s why nobody asks homeopaths to help with medical emergencies.
126 Responses to Coronavirus epidemic: Why don’t they ask the homeopaths for help?
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I have sent a complaint about South Devon Homeopathy to the ASA.
well-done
thanks
Thank you for this article post. Homeopathy can work, and it will work effectively , if the right remedy is given to match the symptom picture. Of course supporting the system wit the individual ciomstitutional remedy will help, as well as supplements to increase the immune system overall. And yes, I am a homeopathic practitioner.
… and no, you don’t have any evidence for your wild assumptions.
You are an uninformed moron… I’ve been using homeopathy for almost 30 years and its miraculous… you have no idea what in the hell you are talking about… Even the Queen of England and Prince Charles use homeopathy and she’s almost 100
thank you for managing to squeeze so many logical fallacies in so short a text. bravo!
My father in law is almost 100 and in perfect health, he doesn’t know what homeopathy is.
LOL!
Thanks for mentioning it; I was just about to do the same.
Since this new coronavirus first appeared in China… why did the WHO not deploy teams of professional TCM healers to perform emergency acupuncture and cupping therapies?!
Certainly, this would have stopped the virus in its tracks!
sadly, the acupuncture loons might be already at it
https://acupunctureanddisease.blogspot.com/2017/03/acupuncture-and-severe-acute.html
Wow, thats unbelievable…
and I thought that I was making a satirical comment…
in SCAM, nothing can be weirder than the truth
Maybe the entire virus scare is a another massive fraud, like those that came before: swine flu, Sars, Zika, HiN1, etc.
It keeps the wheels of the CON-MED industry turning.
https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/01/24/man-who-pushed-sars-dud-now-pushing-new-chinese-virus/
and maybe the moon is made of Cheddar cheese
Maybe you should be reading reliable sources rather than paranoid delusions written by well known loonatics.
Classical medicine has nothing to offer in viral deseases! Do you remember, what Homeopathy did in the former viral epidemics? Look up in the books and you will see! But I can understand you looking towards Homeopathy given the helplessnes of the so called scientifical medicine……
“Classical medicine has nothing to offer in viral diseases!”
NOT TRUE: even if we cannot cure a viral infection, we can help symptomatically.
“Do you remember, what Homeopathy did in the former viral epidemics?”
YES
https://edzardernst.com/2017/02/homeopaths-love-it-the-epidemiological-evidence-suggesting-that-homeopathy-works/
They are probably referring to the tests done comparing homeopathy with allopathy, somewhere late 18th century, early 19th century.
In short, people have more chance to survive if you do not force them to bleed, vomit and sweat, but let them lie in bed and give them some water.
true
Does it get any poorer, Eddy? Self-referencing to prove your claim!
Does your lobby paycheck weigh up the lives of Italians dying in the aisle in front of the intensive care room?
Hope their souls will take revenge on you.
still waiting for the check, I’m afraid
Roger,
hope you are wearing your tin foil hat
“Today we know that this was not necessarily due to the effects of homeopathy per se, but might have been a false impression caused
by bias and confounding.”
“Upon comparing the report of the treatment of Cholera in the Homeopathic hospital testified to by two allopathic medical inspectors appointed by Government with that of the treatment of the same disease in the other hospitals of Vienna during the same period the epidemic of 1836, it appeared that while two-thirds of the cases treated by Dr. Fleischmann the physician of the Homeopathic hospital, recovered, two-thirds of those treated by the ordinary methods in the other hospitals died.”
bias und confounding???????
Allopathische Krankenhäuser: im Durchschnitt 9 bis 10
Homöopathische Krankenhäuser: Im Durchschnitt 4 bis 5
Oder schauen Sie mal auf die Statistiken zur Cholera, ein Beispiel (S. 122/123):
Allopathische Behandlung zu Hause: 3107 Fälle, davon 1231 gestorben, Anteil 32 %
Allopathische Behandlung im Krankenhaus: 1969 Fälle, davon 1097 gestorben, Anteil 56 %
Homöopathische Behandlung zu Hause: 2143 Fälle, davon 221 gestorben, Anteil 10 %
Homöopathische Behandlung im Krankenhaus: 795 Fälle, dvon 256 gestorben: Anteil 32 %
Oder Seite 131 (Immer noch Cholera):
Average Homeopathic mortality: 29 %
Average Allopathic mortality: 54 %
zur Diphterie findet man (S. 181):
Treated by Homeopathy: Cases: 405, Deaths: 23, Death-rate: 6,0 %
Treated by Allopathy: Cases: 635, Deaths: 109 , Death.-rate 17,0 %
bias and confounding??????????????????
yes, bias and confounding:
1. the two populations were not comparable
2. the treatment of the conventionally treated group was detrimental
“yes, bias and confounding:
1. the two populations were not comparable
2. the treatment of the conventionally treated group was detrimental”
You don´t know this!
How can you dare to claim?
You just suspect it!
I do know this; these are historical facts.
and failure to randomise results ALWAYS in two groups that are not comparable.
>>>>>>”Please remember: if you make a claim in a comment, support it with evidence.”<<<<<
quasus, you wrote:
Oh dear! Did you really think you could slip in a reversing of the burden of proof and get away with it?
* You claimed that homeopathy was more effective than medicine in the Fleischmann case.
* You have not stated what, if any, treatment the “medicine” cohort received.
* You cannot demonstrate that the homeopathy cohort and the medicine cohort were randomised. (Edzard has already told you how failure to randomise leads to non-comparable cohorts.)
And don’t you find it curious that this so-called efficacy of homeopathy for treating cholera has not been replicated in more than 180 years?
(Actually, it’s not at all curious, because this simple inconvenient truth refuses to go away: There is no such thing as an independently replicated robustly conducted double-blinded randomised control trial that demonstrates that homeopathy is distinguishable from placebo for any condition or purpose. )
@quasus
What’s that got to do with the effectiveness of homeopathy against viral infections?
an interesting news item from our local paper:
15 students from Wuhan, the Chinese city at the heart of the deadly coronavirus outbreak, visited Cambridge this week.
Over the course of nine days, Jesus College in Cambridge hosted visitors from Wuhan College for an educational enrichment programme. While staying in our city the students experienced a range of lectures, talks and visits around the University of Cambridge, as well as going on a night out and day trips to London and Oxford.
It’s Mitchell and Webb time (again) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0
Great and good article Edzard,
Hopefully is this a wakeup call to use and trust homeopathy, it will safe lots of people!
Best regards,
Michel
thanks
It’s very painful to see the remarks “placebo” for homeopathic remedies. Nobody has ever reported any side effects of these remedies unlike allopathic drugs which are reported fatal if used over a long time. The aim of a medical practitioner is to bring a sick back to health. Be it a acupuncture, a acupressure, ayurvedic, allopathic or conventional allopathic way of treatment. Have you any record of fatality with homeopathic remedy as compared to daily dead bodies coming from top class Hospitals.
“Nobody has ever reported any side effects of these remedies”
BECAUSE THEY ARE PURE PLACEBOS
Homeopathy kills by neglect: patients forfeiting effective therapies for serious diseases will die prematurely.
And patients forfeiting effective symptomatic therapies for incurable diseases will suffer unnecessarily.
Doesn´t Edzard remember what he once wrote?????
https://journals.lww.com/jcge/Abstract/1997/12000/Homeopathy_for_Postoperative_Ileus___A.16.aspx
“THERE IS EVIDENCE that homeopathic treatment can reduce the duration of ileus after abdominal or gynecologic surgery. However, several caveats preclude a definitive judgment. These results should form the basis of a randomized controlled trial to resolve the issue.”
can ‘QUASUS’ not read: several caveats preclude a definitive judgment!!!
Evidence or not????
We both know very well from publishing, that you have to write something like “…preclude a definitive judgment” or “further investigations have to be done…”
thanks for answering my question: you can’t read!
@EE
” Homeopathy kills by neglect”
SBM kills be action.
“I make it a point never to argue with people for whose opinion I have no respect.” ~ Edward Gibbon
@EE
Arguing ?? lol, I thought we were having a conversation about the different ways people treat illnesses.
But, perhaps you had something else going on.
SBM also cures. And helps. It’s why most people use it.
Homeopathy and AltMed do nothing. It’s why most people don’t use it.
Hello Abdul Rehman Nadeem,
Dr Andre Saine is the expert on the spanish flu epidemic, so read:
http://homeopathy.ca/debates_2013-03-22Q1-2ns.shtml
Pneumonia during the 1918-1920 Influenza Pandemic GB
Typo:
SBM kills by action
@RG
Your wish does not make it so ?
Edzard, with his string of qualifications, should offer a remedy to the coronavirus. Ok, I get it, homeopaths are “quacks” but what has Edzard got to offer. Talk is cheap. Rather than warming on the “inability” of the homeopaths to prove their worth, Edzard should prove that he is better than them but sadly he is simply someone who has no substance. What good is he to mankind and the patients when he cannot offer a solution but rather finds faults with “quacks”. That even a beggar can do better than him. Until he is able to offer a cure, he has no business going around finding fault with others.
oh dear!
Ha Ha Ha…don’t feel “shame” man…Show your degrees to the patient they will get well in a second
Homoeopathic Treatment has Symptomatic Medicines…Every Medicine has a wide range of symptoms coverage ….It is a complete experimental Science…Every single thing is established from large scale of experiments…Sign and symptoms of Homoeopathic Medicines which are similar to the corona virus manifestations were preferred there ….Why you have allergy with Homoeopathy…Think about your so called Allopathic /Conventional treatment 200 years ago…a hazardous treatment system…Still now Homoeopathy kept a strong place in world health…You people are now running towards the basic principles of Homoeopathy but zealous of it.Now you are talking about symptomatic treatment which is the strong principle of Homoeopathy…You are talking against Homoeopathy in epidemics..! Homoeopathy had established in the world giving a magical performance in epidemics 100-200 years ago when you even not discovered the micro organisms and believed this ocuurs from bad air…Even today you are failed to cure maximum burning diseases like DM, Asthma,AIDS,Cancers,Tumors,Auto immune diseases,Heart diseases and so on…where Homoeopathy is performing better then yours…
‘magical performance’
Indeed!
as soon as you disclose the delusion, you see that it amounts to NOTHING!
Evidently it performed so well that, in the same way that diseases have developed resistance to antibiotics, all the diseases that homeopathy was effective against in the 19th century developed resistance to homeopathy, with the result that, as more recent randomised controlled trials show, it is now totally useless.
The same trials that are sponsored by the own creators of the product? Yeah sure. Is like a tabaco company making claims their product does not cause cancer long term when they sponsor the same study … cdc and fda u known where their money come from? No need to answer. Some honest Researchers have abandoned research because they need to produce results that are favoráble to the sponsors otherwise they are not published ..or worst they are modify to convey. Prozac has showed to be not better than placebo and is still on the market. Shall we ban conventional medicine because Prozac is no better than placebo? On top of that those studies measure efficacy not efficiency. Basically Nowadays Studies are no trustworthy because they are biased. The moment we have an incorruptible independent organisation that doesn’t accept money from corporations ill be willing to accept the verdict of those studies without a question. but in the mean time… is just full of ?. ?
Just to end and one a different note, I also want to criticise the wishy washy language that alternative practitioners use. Some of them are completely out of touch with reality and are kind of lunatics.
Like Mr. Pepe was sayin
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2008/feb/26/mentalhealth.medicalresearch
Why you are not doing something with your degrees…Show your degrees to the patients they will get well in a second…Homoeopathic doctors will better than you definitely if they get chance….
Hello Kazy Habibur Rahman,
you have to understand that Dr Edzard Ernst is the Professorized Anti-Homeopath. Most dont know that.
In a case of emergency, like now, he even likes to ridicule that system.
Inspite of of Homeopathy getting its merits in many epidemics:
So Dr Chakravarty from Calcutta wrote:
“So far as your enquiry, I am glad to inforn you that
during the Bangladesh Liberation war in the year 1971/72, many
hundred thousands of refugees came and took shelter at Calcutta
and surounding border cities of West Bengal. A severe Cholera
Epidemic broke out along the refugees particularly in the
Salt Lake area where many thousand people got affected, the
volume of the disease was so much and the condition was so
serious that the Government did not have enough medicines or
saline to cope with the problem. Homoeopaths were employed
by the Government of West Bengal to fight out the disease. The
result was very satisfactory and above 90% of the patients
were cured amongst whom most collapsed cases were also there.
You will be amazed that not even a drop of saline was used by
Homoeopaths. This has been duly recorded by the Department
of Health, Govt. of West Bengal and the Council of Homoeopathy,
West Bengal. This success brought laurel to the Homoeopathic
System of medicine and when the Homoeopathic Act 1973 was
brought in the Parliament of India, this instance was brought
to the floor by the then Health Minister during placing the
bill and it was unanimously passed.
This is for your kind information.” GB
there are many lunatics around
Thats for shure. I definitely agree. Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses GB
You just choose what facts you like. Very biased. I’ve seen miracles using homeopathy when regular medicine failed in many occasions for many people.
We need both forms of medicine. Homeopathy survives because it works.
The pharmaceutical money is powerful. So powerful that it keeps most people including you in the dark with its strong influence on the media and and educational systems. And influence on the research you see posted on media sites.
Nonetheless since it does work ….time and time again for over 200 years …it has and contiues to survive even after the government tries to make it illegal! Why illegal? Because it’s cheaper than drugs and it works.
Do your own experiment, I challenge you to take 3 remedies, one at a time . Once a day for 2 weeks until you feel an effect. Then stop it and take it again to see if you get that same symptom again . Then you will know the remedy has a power you just don’t understand but you know it is there. Your sensations don’t lie!
Not everyone reacts quickly after a given remedy because we are each sensitive to different medicines… just as we are each uniquely sensitive to cold , hot, interruption, jealousy and shame.
“You just choose what facts you like.”
Not really! I often discuss systematic reviews which summarise the totality of the available evidence (see for instance this recent post: https://edzardernst.com/2020/01/homeopathy-has-greater-effects-than-placebo-but-only-if-you-cheat-quite-heavily/)
“I’ve seen miracles using homeopathy”
Must have been miracles, because homeopathy does not work.
…
…
…
And so your comment continues with one fallacy after the next.
@Jane, you wrote:
I’ve got a better idea. I’ll send you three “remedies”, unopened (hence uncontaminated) but with the labels removed and replaced with A, B, C. You identify them from the symptoms that you think they induce in you.
And you are one of them!!!!
I guess “professorized” is homeospeak for “weaponized” That is very appropriate, as the second greatest enemy of homeopathy (after homeopaths who attempt to defend it in public) is knowledge.
The hubris of homeopaths seldom fails to amuse 😀
This thread really is the gift that keeps on giving:
Verily, they indeed walk among us.
thank you!
I was beginning to think I was the only sane person left
Dear Prof. Dr Edzard Ernst, the last time I talked with Dr. Artur Wölfel (https://www.krankenhaus-naturheilweisen.de/krankenhaus-fuer-naturheilweisen/team/aerzte/), he confirmed they searched and did not find any evidence that you ever took courses or education at that hospital. So being asked several times about your connection to his hospital, he would be pleased to hear from you if and when you were trained there. So I am glad to hear you are in sane condition and probably be able to remember those details. Best regards
do you want my fingerprints too?
Whoa !!
The professor could be a fraud ? …. no way
and the moon could be of Cheddar cheese – Whoa!!
Would be fun to compare homeopathy with traditional Chinese medicine.. 🙂
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20674839
https://www.ecampnd.com/homeopathy/A_Chorus_of_Fifty_in_Harmony.pdf
thank you of reminding us of these long-debunked papers
outrageous BS from the Indian government:
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/homeopathy-effective-in-prevention-of-coronavirus-infections-ayush-ministry/story-yb5MxRWf4snHmIDKmqvwXL.html
I don’t understand; you talk about a homeopathic disaster concerning the Ebola outbreak, and you provide a link.
I went to the link, and the article mentions how Homeopathy helped with a number of previous epidemics, and the article ended with how Homeopaths and a bunch of other [allopathic] doctors were denied access to the Ebola patients, because of officials’ fears of losing numbers of precious doctors if they should contract the disease.
The article said nothing in the article about Homeopathy failing or being a disaster.
One of my most dramatic homeopathic experiences was when I had bronchitis, and my nose was continually producing thick, dark green discharge. I took Kali B, and green-production slowed about 75% before the hour was over, more than 90% by the end of the day, and there was no more before the end of the next day. My cough took another week to totally clear up, as the damaged air passages healed.
It absolutely requires someone with clinical experience to tell you which remedy to take, which potency to take, whether to switch to a higher potency at some time, or switch to a different remedy, or how often to take the remedy.
As a pedestrian, I could help someone with acute symptoms such as green-nasal-discharge, black and blue contusions, pulled ligaments and strained tendons, broken bones, infected tear ducts and most eye injuries, skin punctures and lacerations (paper cuts, machete). I’m fairly familiar with about a half dozen remedies out of thousands(?). Considering all the things that can happen to our soft flesh, that’s a pretty small list, and that’s why I recommend that homeopathy should be paired with a practitioner with good clinical experience.
It’s a tall order. Finding an experienced homeopath is difficult, and impossible in many locations. You don’t want to go to just anyone that hangs a sign in their window.
Additionally, the most experienced homeopath cannot explain the mechanisms by which Homeopathy works. The explanation given in this article is oft times repeated, cryptic, posing as an explanation, giving credence to the concept that the whole practice is a scam. (“It activates the body’s natural restorative properties by producing symptoms similar to the ones experienced by the patients…” — how does producing similar symptoms help when I already have those symptoms?) Regardless, none of that means that it doesn’t work, it’s just that homeopathy is more complicated than our traditional “take this pill and call me in the morning.” And that’s a rub.
More complicated. For instance, you provide a list of remedies you might take for a respiratory infection. That’s already more complicated than prescribing an antibiotic (and call me in the morning), and the list of remedies is far, far from complete. And the list doesn’t mention what potency to take or how often to take it. It’s a setup for failure for the adventurous few that give it a try, whom then go onto the internet and add their voices to everyone else that says it’s a scam.
Also, although a remedy is generally chosen based on the patient’s symptoms, that’s not always 100% of the case, which might render your short list completely moot. For the flu, for instance, when the first few patients with the year’s newest flu visit their homeopaths, they will start with the “obvious” remedy that corresponds to the symptoms presented, but if it doesn’t work well, they’ll go to secondary, tertiary, and quaduciary remedies until they find the proper one. When the correct one is found, the name of the proper remedy for the present flu is circulated among homeopathic practitioners, and successive patients receive the advantage of immediate improvement instead of having a more complex situation. The same process occurs for cold viruses making their rounds; usually the symptoms point to the remedy — but if that doesn’t work, it gets a little more complicated, and the more clinical-experience on board the quicker the return to healthfulness.
Falling back and punting, the methodology of Homeopathy is well established, regardless that no one knows the mechanism whereby “an extreme dilution of anything” should have any effect. But there’s a history of using mechanisms that we don’t totally understand. We use electricity, and at first we liked Niels Bohr’s model of the atom including electrons revolving around nuclei like planets, but today it’s all quantum physics and nothing like Bohr’s model; but early electronics used it effectively, anyway. We use electrical forces, and magnetism, and gravity, although we don’t understand their real nature or how they propagate. Closer to home, doctors don’t know how aspirin, antidepressants — and probably a bunch of other drugs — work, but the methodology of their use is also well established (such as if you feel homicidal rage, stop using that antidepressant immediately).
So, it’s not like Homeopathy is the only “witchcraft.” Not that two wrongs make a right; the world of Homeopathy would be delighted if there were more extensive research into understanding its mechanism. Obviously, something is left in the solvent after the original substance has been diluted away. It’s not only a matter of diluting, but also succussing after each dilution — for some reason. No one really knows, but we’d have no objection to having a better understanding of how it really works.
Depends what you mean by “real” and “how” but, that aside, we can make precise predictions of behaviour of electricity and magnetism based on the E and B field model, we know that the EM force *does* propagate, we can measure the speed of propagation, etc. etc.
In short, it is almost exactly unlike homeopathy, whose effects are indistinguishable from placebo and whose proposed mechanisms are so implausible that, if they worked, much of science (including EM forces) wouldn’t – couldn’t – work.
Obvious to whom? Certainly not to anyone who has even a rudimentary understanding of either chemical assays or the Avogadro limit.
You are begging the question: you first need to establish that it works. That has never been done in any robust, independently replicated manner.
You might benefit from watching and understanding this short video from Dr Helen Czerski:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz4PDdO8DX8
Yes we do.
Quantum physics still has electrons orbiting the nucleus, though the probability of finding one in a particular place is governed by Schrodinger’s wave equations rather than Newton’s laws which describe planetary motion.
That depends what you mean. Electromagnetism is quite well explained by physics, and gravity by distortions of space-time, according to Einstein’s theory of general relativity, which has so far stood up to a century of trying to disprove it. Though so far physicists haven’t been able to reconcile relativity and quantum theory… Science, of course, is always a work in progress.
I am not aware of a nasal discharge being a feature of bronchitis. Perhaps bronchitis as diagnosed by a homeopath is different from the bronchitis I learnt about at medical school.
There is nothing remarkable about that. But why do you ascribe your improvement to Kali B and not to your immune system naturally fighting the infection?
As a pedestrian, the most useful thing you could do in those situations is call for an ambulance and wait for the Police so that you can tell them what happened.
True, as does the fact that such explanations contradict well-established physical and chemical principles for which the evidence is overwhelming.
Also true. However, nobody, so far, has been able to come up with any convincing evidence that it does (the fact that you are convinced doesn’t, of course, constitute evidence – people believe all sorts of strange things).
How is that obvious, given that so far nobody has been able to detect it?
True.
@Dr. JMK
C’mon doc
“There is nothing remarkable about that. But why do you ascribe your improvement to Kali B and not to your immune system naturally fighting the infection?”
That reasoning is either absurd, or it is a double standard.
When a MD prescribes a medication, or when YOU take one of your many medications, even a cancer therapy. Why do you not attribute your improvement to your immune system naturally making you better ?
It works both ways doc.
Viral infections such as bronchitis usually recover spontaneously as the immune system fights them off. Sadly the same is not usually true of cancer. In my case I was going downhill rapidly before I started treatment for myeloma.
However, it is important, with any sort of treatment, to work with nature, not against it, and to recognise that many medical problems do get better with time. It is often preferable to leave well alone rather than prescribe something, even when the patient is demanding it.
@RG
Er, no. You’re being silly. Again.
The treatments used by physicians have had their effectiveness demonstrated in clinical trials. Therefore there is prior plausibility for any improvement to be attributed to the drug.
Homeopathy has NEVER been reliably and repeatedly demonstrated to be effective beyond placebo for ANYTHING and, as such, Occam’s Razor applies and it is entirely reasonable to attribute the improvement in symptoms only to natural progression of the disease.
@Lenny
Sir, you can fool some of the people, some of the time. I happen to know about clinical trials.
Yes, treatments via pharma work on some of the people, some of the time. The margin of success for many meds is not much greater than the placebo, and this is a fact.
So don’t attempt to make it sound as if everything is 100% for everybody 100% of the time.
Take it from someone that knows about the pharma industry and clinical trials.
good of you to stress ‘and that is a fact’. this enables us to identify tour delusions more readily.
‘Course you do, RG. Your vast knowledge of such matters has repeatedly been demonstrated on this forum. *coughs*
@Lenny
lol… you think you know anything of my knowledge of pharma ?
I’ve pissed more money away on bad pharma stocks than you’ll ever receive from being a dentist… in all your life.
That said, my winnings are 8 times my losses.
thanks for yet again pointing out what an utter fool you are, RG!
Finally I found out what “RG” stands for: “Rich Guy”!
Well I (“not rich guy”) still am not impressed… since quite obviously, money can´t buy brains (QED)
🙂
@EE
Professor
If you make a claim, support it with evidence.
you are exceptionally good in supplying evidence for your incompetence, RG.
WELL DONE!
THANK YOU.
So the Chinese coronavirus is coming.
Do I keep homeopathic remedies handy just in case?
You bet!
If you are an anti-homeopathy person who wants to show me how that is a stupid idea,
I’d say “haven’t you got something better to do?” – and …
we’ll talk again when you are in hospital suffering from it (or worse).
PS: Why not leave homeopathy alone? Even if it WERE a placebo/nocebo,
but helped people “activate their inner defenses”, surely that would be worth it?
(And it isn’t a placebo by the way)
here is another ‘interesting’ website of a homeopath
https://alanfreestone.com/coronavirus-treatment-with-homeopathy/
I have used only homeopathy for all sickness is our home for our family and every time they work. I feel blessed to know the power of these remedies and never worry when our family get sick which is very rare. My teenage daughter had a bad cough for two days, I gave her Bryonia remedy and 24 hrs later it was gone! No side effects from medicine or antibiotics. Powerful!
It’s a pity for those so narrow minded who have not even experienced these remedies are so closed minded. It’s their loss. Great pity.
The only narrow-mindedness here lies with those who pretend that unverifiable anecdotes are evidence.
You deny the phenomenon whereby people tend to credit the last “remedy” or “treatment” they took for the “cure” (aka the* post hoc ergo propter hoc* fallacy). If, for example, somebody is taking medicine for a condition, but does not seem to improve, but then tries a pseudomedical intervention like homeopathy and seems to improve, they attribute the improvement to homeopathy and not to the possibility that the medicine takes a while to work. Similar phenomenon with self-limiting conditions.
The test is actual evidence: there is no such thing as an independently replicated robustly conducted double-blinded randomised control trial that demonstrates that homeopathy is distinguishable from placebo for any condition or purpose.
That is a bold statement: you can refute it with a single counter example. I’m betting you can’t.
Of course! I sit here and watch all of this monkey chatter and think of 30 years of using Homeopathy, forgetting the results on me and my family but the wonderful healing effects on ALL OF OUR ANIMALS, Horses, Dogs, Birds, even mice. I guess I was able by magical thinking to project, even on a mouse, etc that it would be healed and of course, it truly believed and fell prey to the dreaded placebo effect of nothing. I will now leave the haters to hate but anyone who believes the animals are also fooled into being healed need serious care. I will leave this with, even if that were so, how great a healing gift it would be to be able to heal creatures with homeopathy which in that case must REALLY have magic powers > Great, I’ll take it if that’s it as well.
WATER HAS BEEN A MAGICAL CURE MUCH LONGER THAN HOMEOPATHY!
I sit here and watch all of this monkey chatter and think of thousands of years of using water, forgetting the results on me and my family but the wonderful healing effects on ALL OF OUR ANIMALS, Horses, Dogs, Birds, even mice. I guess I was able by magical thinking to project, even on a mouse, etc that it would be healed and of course, it truly believed and fell prey to the dreaded placebo effect of nothing. I will now leave the haters to hate but anyone who believes the animals are also fooled into being healed need serious care. I will leave this with, even if that were so, how great a healing gift it would be to be able to heal creatures with water which in that case must REALLY have magic powers > Great, I’ll take it if that’s it as well.
Careful, Edzard! You risk being associated with Fereydoon Batmanghelidj! 🙂
https://quackwatch.org/11ind/batman/
I have used Kent’s Repertorium Generale to find a list of remedies according to symptoms. The Guiding Symptoms of Our Materia Medica assists in deciding which remedy best fits the symptoms. It is quite a study. Have used it in both humans and dogs. Have had amazing results. Exploding diarrhea, seizures aggravated by the full moon (diet too), bloody diarrhea, swelling from bee stings, fever, cough, etc. The dog’s responses proved it was not placebo effect. Choosing the right remedy is amazing.
What about the possibility that it would have got better otherwise? All of the disorders that you mention generally do. Seizures tend to vary in frequency in a fairly random way, and it is very easy to perceive patterns which aren’t really there.
Is that in dogs or humans? By definition, infective diarrhoea in humans with blood is dysentery, which (depending on the infectious agent and where you live) is a notifiable disease due to the risk of spreading serious infection to others. Haemorrhagic diarrhoea in dogs carries a 20% mortality rate. In either case it is very irresponsible not to seek proper treatment.
I’ve just read your post again. If you believe in homeopathy then do you also believe in werewolves?
How can the moon influence seizures??
What usually happens if the swelling from bee stings / fever / cough…etc. is not trested with homeopathy? In my experience it most often gets better anyway.
I have too warn sternly against taking bloody stools, darrheal or otherwise, lightly.
It is a serious sign that may disappear without intervention, as it seems to have done in your case – luckily.
But it is a sign of potentially life threatening problems e.g. EHEC infection, cancer, or other serious diseases. Bloody diarrheal stools should be referred to urgent medical care!! If your story is true (Which seems doubtful), you were in luck.
Homeopathy is make-believe medicine, which should not be used in lieu of proper modern medical care. Treating serious disease with homeopathy may constitute criminal neglect.
I don’t know where you live, but in the UK that would certainly be considered criminal neglect of an animal, and potentially neglect or abuse of family members. However, you can be as foolish as you like when it comes to treating yourself.
ROTFLMAO @ “aggravated by the full moon”: unadulterated magical thinking. And as for:
How? Are you one of these homeopaths that pretends that there is no placebo effect in animals, when in fact it has been documented for at least 20 years?
http://thoreking.free.fr/zetetique/media/press/McMillan_ThePlaceboEffectInAnimals.pdf
Isn’t it narrow-minded to conclude that any improvements in your family members’ health are due to homeopathy without considering other possible explanations?
I have been wondering: there is a huge need for medically trained personnel in hospitals and makeshift hospitals – why don’t homeopaths show up or are asked to help there…
They always claim to be part of the health system, claim to be well-trained, some of them even seem to see themselves as better doctors.
😉
good point!
except ‘professional’ homeopaths are NOT medically trained; they could do more damage than good.
but they could be trained for simple tasks – so, what about it homeopaths?
Claudia on Friday 20 March 2020 at 19:14
“I have been wondering: there is a huge need for medically trained personnel in hospitals and makeshift hospitals – why don’t homeopaths show up or are asked to help there…”
Very good suggestion. It seems homeopaths wanted to help during the Ebola crisis in Africa but were not allowed to do so. NHS should make an offer: they should be allowed to work and if results are positive, homeopathy is included back into NHS.
Every one would be happy!
https://edzardernst.com/2014/11/homeopathy-for-ebola-an-update-directly-from-the-horses-mouth/
Edzard on Tuesday 24 March 2020 at 19:14
“POLITICAL CONSIDERATIONS MORE IMPORTANT THAN MEDICAL TREATMENT?
This first LMHI team of doctors was forbidden to care for patients from the “Ebola Treatment Unit”. The decision was based on an order of the WHO. A team of Cuban doctors was also waiting in vain for being allowed to work. “We are dealing here with a dangerous epidemic and a large number of seriously ill patients. And despite a striking lack of doctors in West Africa political considerations are more important than the treatment of these patients”, criticises the DZVhA chairperson Bajic.”
Exactly as I mentioned. Not allowed to work. What better time than now to prove the theory.
They don’t have to travel to Africa. Italy, USA, Spain or UK is available as test centers. The homeopaths should be pushed in service now, or like Trump wait until every state is out of control (55220 infected, 797 dead and rising). For infected people, USA will overtake Italy in the next 3 days and China in about 10 days?
And if (when!) they are not positive? Just more deaths to put down to the serial stupidity of sociopathic narcissists who adhere to belief in magic despite there being no robust independently replicated evidence for its efficacy.
Then just get on with it, but don’t use ill members of the public as your guinea-pigs. Recruit a few thousand willing true believers in your magic water, and use them for a robustly conducted DBRCT.
Medicine that hasn’t been through clinical trials isn’t permitted for use in the NHS, and there’s even less reason to exempt pseudomedicines like homeopathy from clinical trials.
Dear Dr Edzard Ernst,
Medical Personal from Cuba is now helping Italy in this disaster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psAgSjqLM34
Dont you want to stop them? This country Cuba dared to stop an Leptospirosis epidemic in 2009 by the use of homeopathy!!
https://cnmwellness.com/cuba-epidemic-stopped-with-5-million-doses-of-homeopathy/
Italy is falling into the hands of those bastards…
homeopathy did nothing to leprosy in Cuba; only a few deluded homeopaths believe otherwise:
https://edzardernst.com/2017/02/homeopaths-love-it-the-epidemiological-evidence-suggesting-that-homeopathy-works/
https://edzardernst.com/2019/08/leprosy-some-homeopaths-advise-to-treat-it-with-homeopathy/
Edzard on Monday 23 March 2020 at 13:29
“homeopathy did nothing to leprosy in Cuba; only a few deluded homeopaths believe otherwise:”
Andreas Gärtner made reference to the Cuba study on Leptoporosis. You converted that to leprosy? Even a layman knows that the 2 diseases are different. How did you mix up? Too many errors? On purpose?
Providing your OWN reference to prove a point is accepted? From stating that vaccine studies are done by specialists, you have deputed a character with experience in Honeywell to run down a vaccine expert, and on his word reject a trial? Then you put the trial into a write off list and make a reference to it? Very fishy!
If I dig other trials, similar outcomes would be seen?
You sure leprosy cannot be treated with homeopathy? This is one of the oldest diseases in the world.
Trial report from India
http://www.ijrh.org/article.asp?issn=0974-7168;year=2015;volume=9;issue=3;spage=158;epage=166;aulast=Chakraborty
yes, i did click on the wrong link, but i also linked to this, didn’t I?
17. Bracho et. al. Application of 200C potency of bacteria for Leptospirosis epidemic control in Cuba 2007-8 (2010)
Conducted by the Finlay Institute, a vaccines producer in Cuba gave 2.308562 million (70% of the target population above the age of 1 year) people in Cuba given two doses (1 dose=5 drops) of 200C potency of a nosode prepared from Leptospirosis bacteria, each (7-9 days apart), for protection against Leptospirosis (fever+jaundice+ inflammation in kidney+enlargement of spleen) with 84% decrease in disease incidence and only 10 reported cases. Dramatic decrease in morbidity within two weeks and zero morbidity of hospitalised patients, non-treated (8.8 millions) area saw an increase in number of cases from 309 cases in 2007 to 376 in 2008 representing a 21% increase. The cost of homeopathic immunization =1/15th of conventional vaccine.
SO CALM DOWN!
…but only in the “minds” of the deluded:
https://apgaylard.wordpress.com/2010/08/08/much-ado-about-nothing/
Steve Tonkin on Monday 23 March 2020 at 17:50
“……….…but only in the “minds” of the deluded:”
That is incorrect.
Dr Edzard writes: “When it comes to a new vaccine, however, I would leave this to those who have experience with such trials.”
Neither you {(Sceptic, humanist, author (astronomy), former teacher (physics, maths)} nor Mr apgaylard ( I am a Chartered Physicist and Engineer.), your reference, have the credentials required for evaluating a vaccine study. Or have you some experience that you missed to state here?
When the back ground knowledge (education and experience ) of the 2 of you is compared with the researchers at Finlay Institute, your comments carry zero credibility. Unless you consider that education and expertise are not the determinant here. If so, Dr Edzard is wrong in his comment of considering vaccine as an specialist area!
Or is there a middle way? Be specific. Use your experience of teaching Mathematics!
Edzard on Monday 23 March 2020 at 18:52
“yes, i did click on the wrong link, but i also linked to this, didn’t I?”
You have done so on many occasions. Then you continue to write:
“Whenever I read articles of this nature, I get a little embarrassed.”…….”And this is when my embarrassment quickly turns into anger: articles like the above spread nonsense and misguide people about important issues. THEY ARE DANGEROUS! There is little room for embarrassment and plenty of room for criticism.”
“The text contains several errors (which I find too petty to correct here).
The list of studies is the result of cherry-picking the evidence.
It confuses what epidemiological studies are; RCTs are certainly not epidemiological studies, for instance.
It also omits some of the most important epidemiological studies suggesting homeopathy works.
It cites texts that are clearly not epidemiological studies.
Several studies are on prevention of illness rather than on treatment.
Some studies do not even employ homeopathy at all.”
What was your basis of putting the leptoporosis study in these comments?
https://edzardernst.com/2017/05/a-method-of-ending-discussions-with-belligerent-twits/
Edzard on Tuesday 24 March 2020 at 09:10
“https://edzardernst.com/2017/05/a-method-of-ending-discussions-with-belligerent-twits/”
Asking you to explain your comment is “belligerence”?
Using words like “nutter” and derogatory language, that you yourself are against is categorized as?
i think that, in your case, ‘nutter’ is a statement of fact.
Edzard on Tuesday 24 March 2020 at 17:47
“i think that, in your case, ‘nutter’ is a statement of fact.”
Is that the way used by you to avoid making a proper answer? Doctors are allowed to make blanket statements that they cannot back up and then throw tantrums and call names? Why not try being specific for a change?
If a vaccine expert did a trial today on population to be potentially infected by Covid 19, will he use a control group by offering placebo, if he was aware that safety of the vaccine was not a concern, or will he use for reference the group that could not receive vaccine on account of shortage of doses?
why don’t you buzz off and learn some basic stuff about clinical trials?
Evidence?
Ah, the good old “shoot the messenger when you can’t fault the message” tactic (aka argumentum ad hominem). Did you really think you’d get away with that here?
But, since you asked, I can’t speak for Mr apgaylard, but, in no particular order:
* 2nd year credit in pharmacology during my BSc.
* The need to analyse scientific methodology in a variety of fields for my MSc.
* Decades of critically reading scientific papers, at university, for work, and for pleasure.
* An ability to do statistical analysis (just as well, given that I had to teach it).
But, that aside, the point here is remarkably simple (to anyone with sufficient neurons to form a synapse): if a scientific methodology or statistical analysis is flawed in any way, it is unreliable. The end.
I won’t embarrass you by asking you to cite your scientific credentials, Iqbal, but I will embarrass you by asking you to enumerate the flaws in Mr apgaylard’s critique.
Steve Tonkin on Tuesday 24 March 2020 at 10:45
“But, since you asked, I can’t speak for Mr apgaylard, but…..:”
Why can you not speak for him? What was your basis of using his reference in the first place? Provide misinformation?
“* 2nd year credit in pharmacology during my BSc.
* The need to analyse scientific methodology in a variety of fields for my MSc.
* Decades of critically reading scientific papers, at university, for work, and for pleasure.
* An ability to do statistical analysis (just as well, given that I had to teach it).”
Considering vaccine is a specialist topic, altogether different from medicine (Dr Edzard’s assessment):
Which of these qualification makes you an expert on vaccine studies and evaluating outcome when compared to a Dr, involved in research and testing of vaccines over many years, especially from the view of overturning his research study (…but only in the “minds” of the deluded: Dr Bracho believed in his study) that actually produced positive result in the field?
“….with 84% decrease in disease incidence and only 10 reported cases. Dramatic decrease in morbidity within two weeks and zero morbidity of hospitalised patients, non-treated (8.8 millions) area saw an increase in number of cases from 309 cases in 2007 to 376 in 2008 representing a 21% increase. The cost of homeopathic immunization =1/15th of conventional vaccine.”
Icky, which bit of “the point here is remarkably simple (to anyone with sufficient neurons to form a synapse): if a scientific methodology or statistical analysis is flawed in any way, it is unreliable. The end. ” are you either unable, or pretending to be unable, to understand?
Steve Tonkin on Tuesday 24 March 2020 at 19:15
“Icky, which bit of “the point here is remarkably simple (to anyone with sufficient neurons to form a synapse):”
For me the simple method is to compare the credentials of people involved in making the evaluation, specially, if the views are opposing. For cross check, use outcome and follow up action.
Your comments have no credibility against that of Dr Bracho when qualification and experience is compared for a vaccine trial. The results of the trial on the ground have been positive, as was pointed out before.
And ” Based on the results achieved with leptospirosis, the Cuban Ministry of Health began using homeopathic prophylaxis and treatment for other infectious epidemics, including dengue fever, ‘swine’ flu, hepatitis A and conjunctivitis – all with similar success.”
The different outcomes showed the same positive result. What is your argument about?
Starting to call names is a standard manner of saying “I am wrong but I would like to stand my ground rather than lose face and this is nothing new.”
We have an interesting saying: you can share with those around you, only what you have. Where did you get this name calling from?
So you think multi-flawed studies are reliable? Edzard was being euphemistic when he called you a nutter!