The chiropractor Oakley Smith had graduated under D D Palmer in 1899. Smith was a former Iowa medical student who also had investigated Andrew Still’s osteopathy in Kirksville, before going to Palmer in Davenport. Eventually, Smith came to reject the Palmer concept of vertebral subluxation and developed his own concept of “the connective tissue doctrine” or naprapathy. Today, naprapathy is a popular form of manual therapy, particularly in Scandinavia and the US.
But what exactly is naprapathy? This website explains it quite well: Naprapathy is defined as a system of specific examination, diagnostics, manual treatment and rehabilitation of pain and dysfunction in the neuromusculoskeletal system. The therapy is aimed at restoring function through treatment of the connective tissue, muscle- and neural tissues within or surrounding the spine and other joints. Naprapathic treatment consists of combinations of manual techniques for instance spinal manipulation and mobilization, neural mobilization and Naprapathic soft tissue techniques, in additional to the manual techniques Naprapaths uses different types of electrotherapy, such as ultrasound, radial shockwave therapy and TENS. The manual techniques are often combined with advice regarding physical activity and ergonomics as well as medical rehabilitation training in order to decrease pain and disability and increase work ability and quality of life. A Dr. of Naprapathy is specialized in the diagnosis of structural and functional neuromusculoskeletal disorders, treatment and rehabilitation of patients with problems of such origin as well as to differentiate pain of other origin.
DOCTOR OF NAPRAPATHY? I hear you shout.
Yes, in the US, the title exists: The National College of Naprapathic Medicine is chartered by the State of Illinois and recognized by the State Board of Higher Education to grant the degree, Doctor of Naprapathy (D.N.). Graduates of the College are eligible to take the Naprapathic Medicine examination for licensure in the State of Illinois. The D.N. Degree requires:
- 66 hours – Basic Sciences
- 64 hours – Naprapathic Sciences
- 60 hours – Clinical Internship
Things become even stranger when we ask, what does the evidence show?
I found all of three clinical trials on Medline.
A 2016 clinical trial was designed to compare the treatment effect on pain intensity, pain related disability and perceived recovery from a) naprapathic manual therapy (spinal manipulation, spinal mobilization, stretching and massage) to b) naprapathic manual therapy without spinal manipulation and to c) naprapathic manual therapy without stretching for male and female patients seeking care for back and/or neck pain.
Participants were recruited among patients, ages 18-65, seeking care at the educational clinic of Naprapathögskolan – the Scandinavian College of Naprapathic Manual Medicine in Stockholm. The patients (n = 1057) were randomized to one of three treatment arms a) manual therapy (i.e. spinal manipulation, spinal mobilization, stretching and massage), b) manual therapy excluding spinal manipulation and c) manual therapy excluding stretching. The primary outcomes were minimal clinically important improvement in pain intensity and pain related disability. Treatments were provided by naprapath students in the seventh semester of eight total semesters. Generalized estimating equations and logistic regression were used to examine the association between the treatments and the outcomes.
At 12 weeks follow-up, 64% had a minimal clinically important improvement in pain intensity and 42% in pain related disability. The corresponding chances to be improved at the 52 weeks follow-up were 58% and 40% respectively. No systematic differences in effect when excluding spinal manipulation and stretching respectively from the treatment were found over 1 year follow-up, concerning minimal clinically important improvement in pain intensity (p = 0.41) and pain related disability (p = 0.85) and perceived recovery (p = 0.98). Neither were there disparities in effect when male and female patients were analyzed separately.
The authors concluded that the effect of manual therapy for male and female patients seeking care for neck and/or back pain at an educational clinic is similar regardless if spinal manipulation or if stretching is excluded from the treatment option.
Even though this study is touted as showing that naprapathy works by advocates, in all honesty, it tells us as good as nothing about the effect of naprapathy. The data are completely consistent with the interpretation that all of the outcomes were to the natural history of the conditions, regression towards the mean, placebo, etc. and entirely unrelated to any specific effects of naprapathy.
A 2010 study by the same group was to compare the long-term effects (up to one year) of naprapathic manual therapy and evidence-based advice on staying active regarding non-specific back and/or neck pain.
Subjects with non-specific pain/disability in the back and/or neck lasting for at least two weeks (n = 409), recruited at public companies in Sweden, were included in this pragmatic randomized controlled trial. The two interventions compared were naprapathic manual therapy such as spinal manipulation/mobilization, massage and stretching, (Index Group), and advice to stay active and on how to cope with pain, provided by a physician (Control Group). Pain intensity, disability and health status were measured by questionnaires.
89% completed the 26-week follow-up and 85% the 52-week follow-up. A higher proportion in the Index Group had a clinically important decrease in pain (risk difference (RD) = 21%, 95% CI: 10-30) and disability (RD = 11%, 95% CI: 4-22) at 26-week, as well as at 52-week follow-ups (pain: RD = 17%, 95% CI: 7-27 and disability: RD = 17%, 95% CI: 5-28). The differences between the groups in pain and disability considered over one year were statistically significant favoring naprapathy (p < or = 0.005). There were also significant differences in improvement in bodily pain and social function (subscales of SF-36 health status) favoring the Index Group.
The authors concluded that combined manual therapy, like naprapathy, is effective in the short and in the long term, and might be considered for patients with non-specific back and/or neck pain.
This study is hardly impressive either. The results are consistent with the interpretation that the extra attention and care given to the index group was the cause of the observed outcomes, unrelated to ant specific effects of naprapathy.
The last study was published in 2017 again by the same group. It was designed to compare naprapathic manual therapy with evidence-based care for back or neck pain regarding pain, disability, and perceived recovery.
Four hundred and nine patients with pain and disability in the back or neck lasting for at least 2 weeks, recruited at 2 large public companies in Sweden in 2005, were included in this randomized controlled trial. The 2 interventions were naprapathy, including spinal manipulation/mobilization, massage, and stretching (Index Group) and support and advice to stay active and how to cope with pain, according to the best scientific evidence available, provided by a physician (Control Group). Pain, disability, and perceived recovery were measured by questionnaires at baseline and after 3, 7, and 12 weeks.
At 7-week and 12-week follow-ups, statistically significant differences between the groups were found in all outcomes favoring the Index Group. At 12-week follow-up, a higher proportion in the naprapathy group had improved regarding pain [risk difference (RD)=27%, 95% confidence interval (CI): 17-37], disability (RD=18%, 95% CI: 7-28), and perceived recovery (RD=44%, 95% CI: 35-53). Separate analysis of neck pain and back pain patients showed similar results.
The authors thought that this trial suggests that combined manual therapy, like naprapathy, might be an alternative to consider for back and neck pain patients.
As the study suffers from the same limitations as the one above (in fact, it might be a different analysis of the same trial), they might be mistaken. I see no good reason to assume that any of the three studies provide good evidence for the effectiveness of naprapathy.
So, what should we conclude from all this?
If you ask me, naprapathy is something between chiropractic (without some of the woo) and physiotherapy (without its expertise). There is no good evidence that it works. Crucially, there is no evidence that it is superior to other therapeutic options.
I was going to finish on a positive note stating that ‘at least the ‘naprapathologists’ (I refuse to even consider the title of ‘doctor of naprapathy’) do not claim to treat conditions other than musculoskeletal problems’. But then I found this advertisement of a ‘naprapathologist’ on Twitter:
And now, I am going to finish by stating that A LOT OF NAPRAPATHY LOOKS VERY MUCH LIKE QUACKERY TO ME.
101 Responses to Naprapathy: a lot of it looks just like quackery to me
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So there is another competitor to Chiropractic for the top-prize of the best “stupid, arcane-titled, ineffectual, entrepreneurial-theatric, bait-and-switch scam! The Naprapaths will can take their place next to Dinetics and Matrix-repatterning…
Hey, it works! The chiropractor puts my bones back in place and the Naprapathy doc then puts my muscles and ligaments back in line.
I know it works because I feel great! No more pain!
The idea is that if you put the ligaments back in Place they hold the bones in place longer.
I now only go to the chiropractor once a month instead of every week!
The bones back in place and the muscles and ligaments back in line… right!
This must be the most innovative and fabulous description of what actually happens during the chiropractic/naprapathic fondling. If that’s what they tell you, Cindy, I am beginning to believe they are really worth their money.
Now, in all seriousness, please, at least know that none of this has any actual effect on you (except for some potential risk, which has been verified and you have to live with). I would suggest asking a couple of actual health experts and taking up simple massage instead, as you will be safer that way (and with more money in your pocket).
Nothing that a good physio couldn’t help with, and they are proper educated without claiming to be a healer. I struggled for years with bad shoulders, neck and lower back pain. My physio said it straight out, you are too lazy and don’t have enough muscle mass. I started working out with a PT, and as if by magic (hard work) i am fit and fine.
Hey Mike that is great. Actually the PT degree is very similar to the Naprapathic degree…..just about the same requirements and the same full-time three year program.
A good PT can be worth there weight in gold…..as a good Naprapath. No one natural healing physician lays claim to be the “only way”. But there are as many who have not had the amazing results as many PT’s have fallen into a bit of a minimalist pattern as I have seen specifically ones who have worked with the elderly and my mother, given them ultra generic routines that just get them to move with little else benefits.
But glad you put in the work and are reaping the benefits. The Naprapaths I know, too, are referred to as being magical.
As for healers, well this is just language. Many patients being healed feel they are, as they do in all fields. So I would lighten up on that one.
“without claiming to be a healer.”
You do know what the word “therapy” in “Physiotherapy” mean, right?
Walker,
It comes from the Greek verb “therapeuo” meaning to serve or to administer medical treatment.
Generally in English “therapy” refers to treatment, so a therapist is somebody who treats. The term “healer” is not used in medicine, except sometimes with reference to time (most medical problems resolve spontaneously with time), although the verb “to heal” is used, referring to the process of recovery, usually of wounds. In English a healer is somebody who treats the sick without using conventional medicine, e.g. a folk healer, faith healer etc.
Except that they have been in business since 1902 and what you say, your snarky opinion to which you are clearly entitled to, has not happened and will not happen in your lifetime. I am guessing you have never been to a Naprapath so this comment holds little merit.
To the Author of this article,
Voltaire once said, “Opinion has caused more problems on this little earth than plagues or earthquakes.” So I will focus on what is known. Historically medicine has many origins and various forms of practices. The body is dynamic there is not just one way to treat a body as a living organism. Considering this is there only one way to treat a foot fungus, back pain, and eye infection or any other pathology? Therefore, does that mean that only one form of medicine or healing therapy of the body from ailments is the only valid course of action? That sort of mentality would be equivalent to thinking that anytime something needs to be one with your home, car or dog you only go to one place. If your dog needs a bath you take it to the groomer not the vet. If the car needs an oil change you take it to the place that specializes in that verses the auto body shop, ect. These are curd examples of how myopic this perspective is on diminishing a profession that has not shown any documentation of inflicting harm on a person. Additionally I have read the European studies you reference and they actually indicate that doctors in Scandinavia use Naprapathic medicine as a preventative measure to surgery and it helps with managing fibromyalgia.
What is discouraging is posts such as this which askew the true facts and for what purpose? Is it to harm another profession? If that is the case how discreditable of those that partake in such actions. As professionals isn’t our duty to support and serve the ultimate health and healing of individual?
In an attempt to shed light and potentially quail this “Holier Than Thou” attitude here are some interesting points: (feel free to look the information up)
1. Historically barbers were surgeons!
2. Additionally educationally the prerequisites for Dentistry and Optometry are no different than that of a Naprapath.
In conclusion I leave you all with these questions, if numerous people had not found profound relief from pain through Naprapathy how has the profession been able to survive in Europe and in the U.S since 1907? If this medicine is quackery how has school been able to survive in Illinois over 100 years? Why in 1917 did the AMA ask Dr. Oakley Smith to incorporate this medicine into their scope? If is truly what you claim, how is it that is accepted by the National Health in Scandinavia and naprapaths in Europe assist orthopedic surgeons during surgery? How is possible that such quackery can penetrate a state government and have be accepted and licensed under the medical board?
My purpose in writing all of this isn’t to engage in a heated discussion about who is right and wrong, it is to ask everyone to please have thoughtfulness and awareness surrounding of what you speak and the intentions for doing so.
“… the European studies … actually indicate that doctors in Scandinavia use Naprapathic medicine as a preventative measure to surgery and it helps with managing fibromyalgia.”
really?
are you sure that you “focus on what is known”?
Dr Phillips,
Since you have used the title “Dr” I am assuming that you are either a qualified physician or you have attained a post-gradual level of education, and are accustomed to academic discussion.
“Historically medicine has many origins and various forms of practices”
I don’t think anybody would take issue with that statement.
“The body is dynamic there is not just one way to treat a body as a living organism.”
I am not at all clear what you mean by this sentence. For instance are you using the word “treat” in the sense of treating a medical condition, or in the sense of how you regard it, e.g. an economist, a biologist, a sociologist and an epidemiologist would all treat it differently. That is before we get onto poets and philosophers.
“Considering this is there only one way to treat a foot fungus, back pain, and eye infection or any other pathology?”
This doesn’t follow from the previous sentence, no matter how I construe it. Though I agree with you that there are many ways to treat any pathology, with varying levels of efficacy in different situations.
“Therefore, does that mean that only one form of medicine or healing therapy of the body from ailments is the only valid course of action?”
This really doesn’t follow from anything that you have said before, so you are not justified in putting “therefore” at the beginning of the sentence.
To answer your question, I would say no, since in many cases the wisest course of action is to leave well alone. On the other hand, you also seem to be asking whether different forms of medicine are equally valid. My answer to this is also no. In my view, the only valid form of medicine is one which has been demonstrated to work, for which I require stronger evidence than simply testimonials. It is also desirable that there should be a clear mechanism of action, though frequently treatments are found to be effective before their mechanism has been elucidated.
“That sort of mentality would be equivalent to thinking that anytime something needs to be one with your home, car or dog you only go to one place.”
To be one with your home? What on earth do you mean by that?
“If your dog needs a bath you take it to the groomer not the vet.”
I have a springer spaniel. I usually clean her off myself. If I had to take her to the groomer after every walk I would be there daily. But I do take your point.
“If the car needs an oil change you take it to the place that specializes in that”
Yes, but I still expect them to put oil in it rather than anything else.
“that verses the auto body shop, ect.”
Which verses? How about these?:
The Ford is my Auto, I shall not want another
It maketh me to lie beneath it.
It soureth my soul.
It leadeth me in the paths of ridicule for its name’s sake.
Yea, though I ride through the valleys, I am towed up the hills.
And I fear much evil for its rods and pistons discomfort me.
It anointeth my head with oil. Its radiator runneth over.
I prepare for blow-outs in the presence of mine enemies.
Surely if this thing follow me all the days of my life,
I shell dwell in the garage for ever.
“These are curd examples”
What?
“What is discouraging is posts such as this which askew the true facts and for what purpose?”
Do you mean skew or eschew?
In either case, the aim of this blog is to examine critically the claims made by proponents of so-called alternative medicine in order to establish whether they have any merit. Establishing facts is part of this, but just because something is appealing doesn’t mean it is true. As Thomas Huxley said “the tragedy of science: many a beautiful hypothesis slain by an ugly fact”.
“Is it to harm another profession?”
Certainly not. It is to call out charlatans and con-men, and to ask those who genuinely believe the claims that they are making to provide evidence for them. It is to reduce the harm to patients that results from decisions made as a result of false beliefs and misinformation.
“In an attempt to … quail this “Holier Than Thou” attitude”
It takes more than that to make me quail.
“if numerous people had not found profound relief from pain through Naprapathy how has the profession been able to survive in Europe and in the U.S since 1907? If this medicine is quackery how has school been able to survive in Illinois over 100 years?…”
It is well established that symptoms come and go, and that relief from pain has more to do with expectations than anything else.
More broadly, if you look at the success of advertising, PR, political lobbying, they phenomenon of fake news etc. you will find answers to your questions.
“My purpose in writing all of this isn’t to engage in a heated discussion about who is right and wrong, it is to ask everyone to please have thoughtfulness and awareness surrounding of what you speak and the intentions for doing so.”
Mine too. Though I also strive to educate people a little at the same time.
Dr Money-Kyrle
I am an avid reader of Dr Ernst’s blog and I enjoy greatly the contributions of most posters, even those who express views with which I disagree; as even as I might disagree they at least enable the debate to take place, for matters to be clarified and, one must hope, for learning to happen. That has certainly been the case for me as I have developed my layperson’s understanding of science, evidence and reason immeasurably as a result of following this blog. Thank you Dr Ernst!
I have to say though that recently your contributions have added a new dimension to my enjoyment. I am sure many readers will feel the same. You last post surpasses even your own usual high standards. You even included a poem! How you persistently manage to temper your responses with humility and patience amazes me and many other posters could definitely learn something from you. You are obviously a compassionate man and must have been an excellent physician while practising.
I know from your posts here that you are now retired though ill health. I am sorry to hear that. It made me think that should I or my family members ever fall ill, I would hope to be treated by medics that had developed their skills under your supervision or teaching, or failing that, for them to at least share your outlook and approach to dealing with fellow humans beings.
I wish you well and please do keep posting.
LOL@DrJulian…
Thank you Dr Nancy…well said! The content from this group has descended to name call and limited opinion based comments. Too bad. Seems that the original intent was suppose to be evidence based even if still based on a limited scope of experience and hubris based opinions.
So many have greatly been relieved by the remarkable healing provided by their Naprapaths. I have much gratitude for this profession.
please try to consider that there is a difference between experience and evidence
https://edzardernst.com/2012/11/what-is-and-what-isnt-clinical-evidence-and-why-is-the-distinction-important/
Amen
Naprapaths outside USA only exists in Sweden, Finland och Norway. But Naprapaths do not assist in surgery in Sweden. They are licensed in the same way as chiropractors and physiotherapist but most health care clinics which are subsidized by the state do not employ naprapaths. Hence the majority of naprapaths work in private practice and most of them are not have any agreement with state for reduced fees or free health care. However in Sweden it was a pure political decision to give naprapaths licence even if their college still does not meet up to the standars of state owned universities and colleges. The individual naprapath is good in manual modalities and have a solid ground in human biology and medical subjects. In Sweden they and chiropractor are by no means compared to a Medical Doctors. In Sweden the law also forbid practitioners to call them self physician if they are not Medical Doctors. The naprapaths in Sweden also have education in exercise which means in comparison to a physiotherapist with continued education in orthopedic medicine there are a lot of similarities. If course al health care practitioners regardless of title treat and help a wide variety of patients where manual therapy and exercise can prevent patiens with for instance with some low back, neck pain and osteoarthritis from surgery. But on a national health level in Sweden the authorities are not specifically recommending naprapathic medicine.
Michael Kenny why don’t you do a little research and actually have experienced treatment from both a chiropractor and a Naprapath. Also you should do a few treatments of each and possibly by a couple of different doctors before making a statement that labels an entire 2 professions and also you claim that they all are Fakes and scam artist. If you think about what you said if it were true, than how could there be such a deep following with patients by the millions that see these doctors religiously on a weekly to yearly basis, some who were save from having surgery and millions of others with positive treatment outcomes. These doctors are treating people to help better their quality of life, not scam them. If you don’t believe in it or except it, than I guess it’s not for everyone, but probably, chances are that someday you yourself could benefit from one of these treatments and I hope it’s not a debilitating issue and you will suffer because you are to closed minded or perhaps afraid to open yourself up to other forms of treatments and ways of natural healing. Also, first though you should learn how to spell, when you are trying to sound smart by proofreading your writing. I think you meant to say “Dianetics” not Dinetics????????????????????????????????????????????????????
“… better their quality of life…”
any evidence that chiros do this effectively?
Yeah, there is a ton of evidence that chiropractors improve quality of life, also known as QALs. Which is how many life years a person can live comfortably, healthy and happy. Just come by my office and I will show you.
I don’t know what your goal here is Edzard with this website; other than to put down your “SCAM” or alternative healthcare professions. The reason that there isn’t much research out there on chiropractic treatment and other alternative medicine is because it cost money to do research and unlike allopathic medicine that are financed and fueled by the big pharmaceutical companies. Fortunately, this is changing and more research is coming out on how beneficial chiropractic can be, but to call it a scam is just foolish and ignorant. Here is some research that has come out and this is straight off of the ACA website.
“Many treatments are available for low back pain. Often exercises and physical therapy can help. Some people benefit from chiropractic therapy or acupuncture.”
Goodman et al. (2013), Journal of the American Medical Association
“[Chiropractic Manipulative Therapy] in conjunction with [standard medical care] offers a significant advantage for decreasing pain and improving physical functioning when compared with only standard care, for men and women between 18 and 35 years of age with acute low back pain.”
Goertz et al. (2013), Spine
In a Randomized controlled trial, 183 patients with neck pain were randomly allocated to manual therapy (spinal mobilization), physiotherapy (mainly exercise) or general practitioner care (counseling, education and drugs) in a 52-week study. The clinical outcomes measures showed that manual therapy resulted in faster recovery than physiotherapy and general practitioner care. Moreover, total costs of the manual therapy-treated patients were about one-third of the costs of physiotherapy or general practitioner care.
Korthals-de Bos et al (2003), British Medical Journal
“Patients with chronic low-back pain treated by chiropractors showed greater improvement and satisfaction at one month than patients treated by family physicians. Satisfaction scores were higher for chiropractic patients. A higher proportion of chiropractic patients (56 percent vs. 13 percent) reported that their low-back pain was better or much better, whereas nearly one-third of medical patients reported their low-back pain was worse or much worse.”
Nyiendo et al (2000), Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics
In Comparison to Other Treatments
The results of a clinical trial showed that chiropractic care combined with usual medical care for low back pain provides greater pain relief and a greater reduction in disability than medical care alone. The study, which featured 750 active-duty members of the military, is one of the largest comparative effectiveness trials between usual medical care and chiropractic care ever conducted.
Goertz et al. (2018) JAMA Open Network
“Manual-thrust manipulation provides greater short-term reductions in self-reported disability and pain compared with usual medical care. 94% of the manual-thrust manipulation group achieved greater than 30% reduction in pain compared with 69% of usual medical care.”
Schneider et al (2015), Spine
“Reduced odds of surgery were observed for…those whose first provider was a chiropractor. 42.7% of workers [with back injuries] who first saw a surgeon had surgery, in contrast to only 1.5% of those who saw a chiropractor.”
Keeney et al (2012), Spine
“Acute and chronic chiropractic patients experienced better outcomes in pain, functional disability, and patient satisfaction; clinically important differences in pain and disability improvement were found for chronic patients.”
Haas et al (2005), Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics
“In our randomized, controlled trial, we compared the effectiveness of manual therapy, physical therapy, and continued care by a general practitioner in patients with nonspecific neck pain. The success rate at seven weeks was twice as high for the manual therapy group (68.3 percent) as for the continued care group (general practitioner). Manual therapy scored better than physical therapy on all outcome measures. Patients receiving manual therapy had fewer absences from work than patients receiving physical therapy or continued care, and manual therapy and physical therapy each resulted in statistically significant less analgesic use than continued care.”
Hoving et al (2002), Annals of Internal Medicine
For Headaches
“Cervical spine manipulation was associated with significant improvement in headache outcomes in trials involving patients with neck pain and/or neck dysfunction and headache.”
McCrory, Penzlen, Hasselblad, Gray (2001), Duke Evidence Report
“The results of this study show that spinal manipulative therapy is an effective treatment for tension headaches. . . Four weeks after cessation of treatment . . . the patients who received spinal manipulative therapy experienced a sustained therapeutic benefit in all major outcomes in contrast to the patients that received amitriptyline therapy, who reverted to baseline values.”
Boline et al. (1995), Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics
For Neck Pain
In a study funded by NIH’s National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine to test the effectiveness of different approaches for treating mechanical neck pain, 272 participants were divided into three groups that received either spinal manipulative therapy (SMT) from a doctor of chiropractic (DC), pain medication (over-the-counter pain relievers, narcotics and muscle relaxants) or exercise recommendations. After 12 weeks, about 57 percent of those who met with DCs and 48 percent who exercised reported at least a 75 percent reduction in pain, compared to 33 percent of the people in the medication group. After one year, approximately 53 percent of the drug-free groups continued to report at least a 75 percent reduction in pain; compared to just 38 percent pain reduction among those who took medication.
Bronfort et al. (2012), Annals of Internal Medicine
Cost Effectiveness
Findings from a study utilizing data from the North Carolina State Health Plan collected between 2000-2009 show that care by a doctor of chiropractic (DC) alone or DC care in conjunction with care by a medical doctor (MD) incurred “appreciably fewer charges” for uncomplicated lower back pain than MD care with or without care by a physical therapist.
Hurwitz et al. (2016), Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics
Older Medicare patients with chronic low back pain and other medical problems who received spinal manipulation from a chiropractic physician had lower costs of care and shorter episodes of back pain than patients in other treatment groups. Patients who received a combination of chiropractic and medical care had the next lowest Medicare costs, and patients who received medical care only incurred the highest costs.
Weeks et al (2016), Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics
Low back pain initiated with a doctor of chiropractic (DC) saves 20 to 40 percent on health care costs when compared with care initiated through a medical doctor (MD), according to a study that analyzed data from 85,000 Blue Cross Blue Shield (BCBS) beneficiaries in Tennessee over a two-year span. The study population had open access to MDs and DCs through self-referral, and there were no limits applied to the number of MD/DC visits allowed and no differences in co-pays. Researchers estimated that allowing DC-initiated episodes of care would have led to an annual cost savings of $2.3 million for BCBS of Tennessee. They also concluded that insurance companies that restrict access to chiropractic care for low back pain treatment may inadvertently pay more for care than they would if they removed such restrictions.
Liliedahl et al (2010), Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics
“Chiropractic care appeared relatively cost-effective for the treatment of chronic low-back pain. Chiropractic and medical care performed comparably for acute patients. Practice-based clinical outcomes were consistent with systematic reviews of spinal manipulative efficacy: manipulation-based therapy is at least as good as and, in some cases, better than other therapeusis.”
Haas et al (2005), Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics
Patient Satisfaction
“Chiropractic patients were found to be more satisfied with their back care providers after four weeks of treatment than were medical patients. Results from observational studies suggested that back pain patients are more satisfied with chiropractic care than with medical care. Additionally, studies conclude that patients are more satisfied with chiropractic care than they were with physical therapy after six weeks.”
Hertzman-Miller et al (2002), American Journal of Public Health
Widespread Use of Chiropractic
“Chiropractic is the largest, most regulated, and best recognized of the complementary and alternative medicine (CAM) professions. CAM patient surveys show that chiropractors are used more often than any other alternative provider group and patient satisfaction with chiropractic care is very high. There is steadily increasing patient use of chiropractic in the United States, which has tripled in the past two decades.”
Meeker, Haldeman (2002), Annals of Internal Medicine
excellent!
EVIDENCE!!!
you are on the right track.
now, you need to learn that cherry-picking is misleading.
how about some systematic reviews – I mean those not written by chiros; try Cochrane.
Chiropractic is a health care profession that focuses on disorders of the musculoskeletal system and the nervous system, and the effects of these disorders on general health. These disorders include, but are not limited to: back pain, neck pain, pain in the joints of the arms or legs, and headaches. Doctors of chiropractic (DCs) practice a conservative approach to health care that includes patient examination, diagnosis and treatment. DCs have broad diagnostic skills and are also trained to recommend therapeutic and rehabilitative exercises, as well as to provide nutritional, lifestyle and dietary counseling.
There are more than 70,000 chiropractors in the United States who are required to pass a series of four national board exams1 and be state licensed.2 Roughly another 3,000 chiropractors work in academic and management roles.
There are approximately 10,000 chiropractic students3 in 18 nationally accredited, chiropractic doctoral graduate education programs4 across the United States with 2,500 chiropractors entering the workforce every year.5
An estimated 40,000 chiropractic assistants (CAs)6 are in clinical7 and business management roles for chiropractic practices across the United States.
It is estimated that chiropractors treat more than 35 million Americans (adults and children) annually.8
Chiropractors are educated in nationally accredited, four-year doctoral graduate school programs9 through a curriculum that includes a minimum of 4,200 hours of classroom, laboratory and clinical internship,10 with the average DC program equivalent in classroom hours to allopathic (MD) and osteopathic (DO) medical schools.11
Chiropractors are designated as physician-level providers in the vast majority of states and federal Medicare program. The essential services provided by chiropractors are also available in federal health delivery systems, including those administered by Medicaid, the U.S. Departments of Veterans Affairs and Defense, Federal Employees Health Benefits Program, Federal Workers’ Compensation, and all state workers’ compensation programs.12
A First Line of Defense Against Pain
The essential services provided by chiropractors represent a primary approach for the prevention, diagnosis and conservative management of back pain and spinal disorders that can often enable patients to reduce or avoid the need for riskier treatments, such as prescription opioid pain medications and surgery.
In 2017, the American College of Physicians released an update to its low back pain treatment guideline that recommends first using non-drug treatments, such as spinal manipulation (a centerpiece of chiropractic care), for acute and chronic low back pain.13
A systematic review/meta-analysis published in the Journal of the American Medical Association in 2017 supports the use of spinal manipulative therapy as a first-line treatment for acute low back pain.14
Patient Satisfaction/Clinical Effectiveness
Three in four people who saw a chiropractor in the last year (77%) described chiropractic care as “very effective.”15
In a consumer survey, chiropractic outperformed all other back pain treatments, including prescription medication, deep-tissue massage, yoga, pilates, and over-the-counter medication therapies.16
Chiropractors are the highest-rated healthcare practitioner for low-back pain treatments above physical therapists (PTs), specialist physician/MD (i.e., neurosurgeons, neurologists, orthopaedic surgeons), and primary care physician/MD (i.e., family or internal medicine).17
Chiropractors’ collaborative, whole person-centered approach reflects the changing realities of health care delivery and fits well into Accountable Care Organization (ACO) and patient-centered, medical home (PCMH) models bringing greater clinical efficiency, patient satisfaction and cost savings.18
In 2015, the Joint Commission, the organization that accredits more than 20,000 health care systems in the U.S. (including every major hospital), recognized the value of non-drug approaches by adding chiropractic to its pain management standard.19
A clinical comparative trial conducted at three military medical centers found that chiropractic care combined with usual medical care for low back pain provides greater pain relief and a greater reduction in disability than medical care alone.20
In another comparative-effectiveness trial, 94% of manual-thrust manipulation (chiropractic) recipients experienced a 30% reduction in their pain, compared with only 54% of medical care recipients.21
good to see that you can count to 20 – now try with the evidence.
I should add that stringing so many clauses together with little punctuation, besides the many other grammatical errors, does make your post rather difficult to read.
If you can’t be bothered to get your own language right, then it makes me wonder whether you have taken the trouble to check the details of what you are saying. I don’t know anything about you, but the way you write makes it harder for me to take you seriously. It is rather like turning up to a job interview in a dirty T-shirt and jeans.
I didn’t know I was auditioning for acceptance on this website when I made that post with a few run on sentences after a few too many Gin and tonics :), Sorry Docs. But if you are going to make fun of and discredit a whole profession make sure you know how to atleast spell it correctly.
I think you are using the word “research” in a different sense from most of the regular contributors to this blog. Test-driving a car might well give a good impression but it won’t tell you how reliable it is or how safe in a crash.
The terms “SCAM” as used in this blog is an acronym for “so-called alternative medicine”. This does not imply that the practitioners are fraudulent (although some of them are, many hold genuine beliefs that happen to be incorrect).
Or the millions of patients historically who willingly allowed themselves to be subjected to leeches, blood-letting, purgatives, intrauterine sea-water injections and the many other treatments used by doctors before somebody had the idea of testing them to see if they actually worked.
If you think about what you said if it were true, than how could there be such a deep following with patients by the millions that see these doctors religiously on a weekly to yearly basis
“Or the millions of patients historically who willingly allowed themselves to be subjected to leeches, blood-letting, purgatives, intrauterine sea-water injections and the many other treatments used by doctors before somebody had the idea of testing them to see if they actually worked.”
I am not talking about the 1900’s, I am talking about today! Why would millions of people today go see chiropractors and/or Naprapaths; if chiropractic and Naprapathy doesn’t do anything beneifital????? Also it is completely safe with little to no side effects. After millions of chiropractic adjustments performed daily, why isn’t there any reports of people stroking out by the hundreds after getting adjusted? If these forms of treatment can cure, help or fixes someones issue and is safe, effective and is repeatable; why call it Fake, a scam or pseudoscience????
read up about logical fallacies, please.
1.) A similar argument could then be used in support of almost anything that attract followers; I leave you to go through the obvious examples for a reductio ad absurdum argument.
2.) Again, obvious, but: Some things can yield positive experiences, and still be pseudo science, or even just plainly not science. To not be science does not even have to be strictly negative. It’s when you claim it is, when its clearly not, that it becomes pseudo. With that I am not actually even claiming this is the case for Naprapathy; just clearing up the terminology. I actually dont think that most serious Naprapaths claim it’s science, but if they do I think they may be wrong yes. Philosophy, for example, is a noble field with lots of well respected practitioners, but none of them would claim it’s science.
3.) A normal light oil massage, or hey, even sex, can make you feel great, perhaps even clear some minor back problems (not to the extent of a naprapathic adjustment no) due to the relaxation you got. But if someone claimed this as actual treatment of your, perhaps chronic, pain, and charged you more than usual because of it, you would be right to be sceptical of it, and to try and study it scientificly to se what the explanation really is.
To conclude: Again, a Naprapathic adjustment can probably do good in that it can make you feel better, at least temporarily. If your problems was e.g. temporarily tense muscles, then perhaps the treatment will heal you from this problem. Im even open to the possibility of certain treatments that could be effective against even worse problems, this is not the issue. The issue is that yet, there is very little to no scientific evidence of such. This does not mean we should abandon the field, but rather, if you care about it, and for some reason belive it works, be curious, go out and DO science and find out why and how. Or, accept that you do not know and keep doing it/using it, but be honest about the workings of it, and don’t advertice it as something that does more than you know about. Which is what some Naprapaths do, and this is fine.
Christoper
“To conclude: Again, a Naprapathic adjustment can probably do good in that it can make you feel better, at least temporarily. If your problems was e.g. temporarily tense muscles, then perhaps the treatment will heal you from this problem.”
The majority of Pharma meds don’t heal anything without taking more of them. Yes, there are some therapies and meds that heal, they are the exception to the rule. Therefore SBM is not so far ahead of the Naprapathic methods you mention. SBM might have proven TEMPORARY benefits. However, those benefits come at the risk of the patient obtaining other problems… hmmm.
So has science created cures … or customers ?
Chiropractic services are some of the safest drug-free, noninvasive therapies available for the treatment of back pain, neck pain, joint pain of the arms or legs, headaches and other neuromusculoskeletal complaints. Although chiropractic has an excellent safety record, no health treatment is completely free of potential adverse effects. The risks associated with chiropractic, however, are very small.
Many patients feel immediate relief following chiropractic treatment, but some may experience mild soreness or aching (like that experienced after some forms of exercise), headaches and tiredness. Current literature shows that minor discomfort or soreness following spinal manipulation typically fades within 24 hours.1
In addition to being a safe form of treatment, spinal manipulation is incredibly effective, in some cases getting patients back on their feet faster than traditional medical care. A clinical comparative trial published by the Journal of the American Medical Association found that chiropractic care combined with usual medical care for low back pain provides greater pain relief and a greater reduction in disability than medical care alone.2 In addition, a study in the Annals of Internal Medicine found that spinal manipulative therapy and exercise are more effective at relieving neck pain than pain medication.3
Neck Manipulation
Neck pain and some types of headaches are treated through precise cervical manipulation. Cervical manipulation, often called a neck adjustment or neck manipulation, works to improve joint mobility in the neck, restoring range of motion and reducing muscle spasm, which helps relieve pressure and tension. Patients typically notice a reduction in pain, soreness and stiffness, along with an improved ability to move the neck. Neck manipulation is a remarkably safe procedure. While some reports have associated high-velocity, upper-neck manipulation with a certain kind of stroke, or vertebral artery dissection, research suggests that patients are no more likely to suffer a stroke following a chiropractic neck treatment than they are after visiting their primary care medical doctor’s office. It was also concluded that vertebrobasilar artery (VBA) stroke is a very rare event, and that this type of arterial injury often takes place spontaneously or following everyday activities such as turning the head while driving, swimming or having a shampoo in a hair salon.4
Patients with this condition may experience neck pain and headache that leads them to seek professional care—often at the office of a doctor of chiropractic or medical doctor—but that care is not the cause of the injury. The best evidence indicates that the incidence of artery injuries associated with high-velocity, upper-neck manipulation is extremely rare – about 1 case in 5.85 million manipulations.5
To put this risk into perspective, if you drive more than a mile to get to your chiropractic appointment, you are at greater risk of serious injury from a car accident than from your chiropractic visit.
It is important for patients to understand the risks associated with some of the most common treatments for neck and back pain—prescription nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) as well as prescription opioid pain medications—as these options may carry risks significantly greater than those of manipulation.
According to a study from the American Journal of Gastroenterology, approximately one-third of all hospitalizations and deaths related to gastrointestinal bleeding can be attributed to the use of aspirin or NSAID painkillers such as ibuprofen.6 In addition, as many as one in four people who receive prescription opioids long term for non-cancer pain in primary care settings struggle with addiction.7
Furthermore, surgery for conditions for which manipulation may also be used carries risks many times greater than those of chiropractic treatment. Even prolonged bed rest carries some risks, including muscle atrophy, cardiopulmonary deconditioning, bone mineral loss and thromoembolism.8
A comprehensive review of scientific evidence related to neck pain treatments found at least as much evidence supporting the safety and effectiveness of common chiropractic treatments, including manipulation, as for other treatments such as prescription and non-prescription drugs and surgery.9
If you are visiting your doctor of chiropractic for neck pain or headache, be very specific about your symptoms. This will help your doctor determine the safest and most effective treatment, even if it involves referral to another healthcare provider. If the issue of stroke concerns you, do not hesitate to discuss it with your doctor of chiropractic. Depending on your clinical condition, he or she can forego manipulation and can instead recommend joint mobilization, therapeutic exercise, soft-tissue techniques or other therapies.
Ongoing Research
The American Chiropractic Association believes that patients have the right to know about the health risks associated with any type of treatment, including chiropractic. Today, chiropractic researchers are involved in studying the benefits and risks of spinal adjustment in the treatment of neck and back pain through clinical trials, literature reviews and publishing papers reviewing the risks and complications of neck adjustment.
All available evidence demonstrates that chiropractic treatment holds an extremely small risk. The chiropractic profession takes the issue of stroke and the safety of patients very seriously and engages in training and postgraduate education courses to recognize risk factors in patients, and to continue rendering treatment in the most effective and responsible manner.
“Chiropractic services are some of the safest drug-free, noninvasive therapies available for the treatment of back pain, neck pain, joint pain of the arms or legs, headaches and other neuromusculoskeletal complaints.”
JUST A PITY THAT THEY ARE NOT EFFECTIVE.
“The risks associated with chiropractic, however, are very small.”
Not the case, and even if true – why take even a small risk when there’s no evidence it works?
To: Michael Kenny: I am not going to argue either for or against naprapathy or chiropractic…
You are obviously sure of your opinion…however… “certainty” is not evidence of “truth”!!! For example, at one time, millions of people were “certain” that Earth was flat and was at the center of the universe, while at the same time, millions of others disputed that claim and were murdered for their non-compliance!!
The AMA and pharmaceutical industries have a sordid history of destroying anyone who threatens their hold on the minds and money of people around the world!!
An enlightening short book might interest you (warning… it may also disrupt your current “world-view”)!!
That book is “The Lethal Dose” by Doctor (AMA version) Jennifer Daniels.
btw…Dr. Daniels got her MD (at University of PA) and her MBA (at Wharton) … SIMULTANEOUSLY!!! The woman is brilliant!!!
“Jennifer Daniels is not a reliable source of health information. She fails to understand the need for scientific testing, relies on testimonials and beliefs instead of facts, and demonstrates poor judgment. She makes claims that are bald assertions not supported by any evidence. She is offering dangerous advice, not just about turpentine but about vaccines and other things.”
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/turpentine-the-fountain-of-youth-according-to-dr-jennifer-daniels/
@WRE
Well, if this is the case, then surely there must be tons of evidence to this extent?
Please show us some real-world examples of the AMA and/or pharmaceutical industries destroying someone they perceive as a threat.
Is there no end to this stupidity?
Don’t knock it until you try it.
The word naprapathy is a very odd name. The college says napravit is a Czech word for “to correct” and pathology is “suffering”. Many people 100 years ago were exploring different techniques to help the body heal when patients came to them because medical science wasn’t much better in the late 1800s when the professions of osteopathy, chiropractic and naprapathy emerged.
While “medical doctors” were treating people with radium water to cure everything from arthritis to impotence, an “Ecraseur” to tighten and squeeze around a cyst or hemorrhoid, Plombage to treat tuberculosis by creating a cavity in a patient’s lower lung and filling it with a foreign material such as lucite balls to collapse the lung, gasoline to cure lice, morphine for teething babies, mercury for syphilis, starvation diets for aneurysms, and hydroelectric baths for migraines – these “natural cure” folks were using their hands to relieve pain.
In fact, even today medical doctors treatments and interventions kill more people (you must certainly know the term iatrogenic deaths) each and every year than the number of Americans killed in Viet Nam. Yes, each and every year. Whereas the naprapathic profession has killed no one. Not a single one in 100+ years and not even one malpractice suits, yet has relieved the pain of hundreds of thousands. So who are you to talk about “quackery” and stupidity?
Essentially, naprapathy grew out of chiropractic when one of the first trained chiros felt that the chiropractic theory was essentially flawed. Oakley Smith was that guy and he created what is now referred to as myofascial release. The idea of stretching the body, using certain mobilization techniques to free up constricted joints, massaging to encourage blood flow has been proven time and again by the physical therapy profession. Why the PTs? It is because the research hospitals and organizations that fund well-designed research studies do not fund naprapathy because of people like you who are threatened by other professions who help people feel better without drugs or surgery. Maybe it is just that they feel that the profession is too small — and the fact that the same research is being done in the name of physical therapy but being called “manual therapy”.
Why so negative on a profession that has never harmed anyone? I suggest going after MDs who do surgery when more conservative methods are just as effective – like manual therapy, physical therapy, naprapathy, acupuncture, etc – or who prescribe more dangerous drugs because the profession almost always prescribes a pill for everything. Pills that more often than not have the potential for extremely serious side effects.
But you probably won’t post this to protect your profession … sad.
John Rauser what a wonderful rebuttal you have offered. Thank you. Clean, factual and unbiased. I have loved Naprapathic Medicine for over 40 years.
Recently I attended a lecture by a Chiropractor, Dr Faulkner, who wrote a book called The Chiropractor’s Protégé: The Untold Story of Oakley G. Smith’s Journey with D.D. Palmer, many of which have never been published before Faulkner shares Oakley G. Smith with the reader.
The book is a treasure and includes photos of D.D. Palmer that were found along with Smith’s journal as well as stories and anecdotes about the founder of chiropractic that are refreshing and fascinating. It was stunning to learn that Dr. Oakley Smith was responsible for much of the Chiropractic theory and curriculum before leaving to found Naprapathy. One may say a chicken or egg story. Chiropractic finds primary pathology relating to bone subluxation and Naprapaths find the primary pathology in connective tissue damage ei contracted muscles, ligaments and tendons which thereby create a secondary pathology for the abnormal pressure on the vascular, nervous and lymphatic systems. By stretching the contracted tissues, according to their specific fiber directions, you relieve the impingement upon the other systems. It feels amazing and balancing.
I personally will always use nature medicine and healing as a first resort, my primary care. The world has changed and this is a norm for many.
As you said it is amazing the negativity some need to stoop to without offering anything other than their shallow factless criticisms.
Rebuttal? Where? There is no rebuttal anywhere in the comment you responded to. The article’s claim is that the published evidence does not support the claim that Naprapathy has any value in treating non-specific neck or back pain. It then goes over the evidence.
A rebuttal would have to provide evidence that Naprapathy DOES have better than placebo effectiveness in treating neck or back pain. If such evidence exists, it should be a trivial matter to indicate where it can be found. At that point people can start argueing over the validity of the studies. As the comment by John Rauser does not cite any such study it cannot be considered a rebuttal of any sort. If such studies exist please tell us so we can examine the evidence for ourselves.
So, what does Mr. Rauser offer? He launches into an irrelvant attack on mainstream medicine. This is a logical fallacy called a “strawman arguement” where the speaker attempts to discredit their opponent by attacking some aspect unrelated to the actual debate. This is exactly what we see here. Instead of offering evidence that Naprapathy does anything better than a placebo would, he tries to discredit mainstream medicine. IF his criticisms of mainstream medicine were valid, it would still provide no reason to believe that naprapathy was useful. It’s like
me saying, “I have used fertiliser in my vegatable garden and that’s why my vegetables are bigger than yours” and someone who disagrees with using fertiliser responding with, “No, that isn’t the reason. The same chemistry used to make fertiliser can also be used to make explosives!” My opponents statement is perfectly true, but entirely irrelevant to any debate about the value of fertilisers in growing vegetables. Do you follow?
Now in my example I assumed that my opponent’s claims were true but irrelevant. Is this true of Mr Rauser’s remarks? He could be making a perfectly valid point that he lacks the training to apply correctly in an arguement. Training does matter, many of the most basic skills in science are counter-intuitive and, once we are discussing statistics and ecological validity, we have jumped up several levels of complexity. Without serious study of the methods it can me difficult to see exactly why aa arguement at this level is true or false. So what do we find?
We have a list of medical practices that are no longer used. This is very important as the reason they are no longer used is that evidence was assembled that showed that they didn’t work, that there were better treatments or that there were safer treatments. This is how medical practice develops. People have ideas and then we test them. If they are both effective and safe we use the ideas. “Safe” is a bit of a tricky one though and this is were Mr Rauser’s reasoning breaks down.
Mr. Rauser makes the apparently correct claim that medical treatments and interventions kill more Americans each year than were killed in the Vietnam war. This does appear to be correct. A little over 50 000 US military fatal casualties are admitted to by the US government. I will make no comment on the reliability of this data other than to note that it would be puzzling indeed if the US state was OVER-estimating casualties. On the medical side we have about approximately 250 000 fatalities arising from medical interventions. He also asserts that there have been no deaths arising from naprapathy. I have looked fairly hard and I can’t find any examples of deaths directly attributable to naprapathy so lets accept all these claims as true. Is it relevant?
One of the problems with using this sort of approach is that it takes great care to produce comparisons that are genuinely between things that are similar. Comparing medical accidents with battlefield casualties is not comparing like with like. You could do a comparison with iatrogenic deaths in other countries which would be closer to a true comparison. However, even in this case you need to state your assumptions. Commenters on the US right frequently claim that waiting times are longer in the UK for example. However, as the US uses an insurance based, proifit driven system and the UK provides universal healthcare out of taxation, this is comparing things that are not of the same type.
Mr Rauser’s comment falls victim to the same problem. He is argueing that combat deaths amongst a young, mostly male, fit and otherwise healthy population can be meaningfully compared to deaths from medical accidents! This is not true because the populations, in the statistical sense, are different. The people who die of iatrogenic causes are not the same as those who die in combat. They are mostly elderly and most importantly are already ill, often very seriously. This means that even quite small errors can be serious or fatal. The articles discussed in the main piece were looking at neck and back pain. They don’t specifiy the medical status of the patients. However, there is a vast difference between a 65 year old who dies as a result of a mistake during heart surgery and the equally hypothetical patient complaining of neck pain. The first may officially have died as a result of the surgery but on one hand a young healthy patient might well have survived. On the other hand, given the patient’s age and health, they might well have died at the same moment without any medical intervention at all. The Naprapathic patient could have some terrible underlying health condition, we don’t know, however the iatrogenic deaths patients are almost bound to include a significant proportion with serious pre-existing conditions.
So to summarise.
1. Mr Rauser’s comment does not constitute a rebuttal.
2. He provides no evidence that Naprapathy is effective.
3. He launches an irrelevant attack on conventional medicine.
4. Even if the attack in 3 had been relevant it is not a comparison of things of the same type.
Obviously, the ones who call naprapathy “quackery” have never tried it. It works. As far as I am concerned, my naprapath saved my knees. Two different PTs and an orthopedic surgeon couldn’t relieve my knee pain, but she did. It took time and money, but it was time and money well spent. I second Cindy Bean’s comment. Don’t knock it until you’ve tried it.
Obviously, you haven’t a clue about science and evidence.
Got any evidence that it works? I mean, other than your unsupported opinion.
Lots of negative rebuttal and certainly that is a whole lot easier to spew off than actually putting in the time to study the science of connective tissue damage and the subsequent pathologies to the vascular, nervous, lymphatic and structural systems. The problem with negative rebuttal is at the end of the day that is all you have to show for yourself….your opinion. Let your mind be a parachute and experience Naprapathy. I laugh because I know so many Naprapathic docs treat so many allopathic docs….smart that they know where to run when their back is locked up and more.
And ha ha if I want to get fondled I will go to irreputable dentist or doc who loads me up on anesthesia…too many cases of that. But looks who is playing your game. It was not fun as I have high regard and respect for the many amazing medical/dental trailblazers, although I am betting you have a section here that tears them down too!
Just wondering did you used to bully other kids on the play ground? Cause that is all you are doing here is being a word bully. And yes words have consequences. But imagine the good you could do for this world if your actions were a fertile ground for growth.
Go see a Naprapath and feel great. Then come back and make a comment based on experience! Your opinions are just that…opinions. Baseless word bullies.
Thank You Dawn. You and I have both seen first hand the positive changes and in many cases the undoing of negative consequences, brought on by treatments( or lack of) from Allopathic and Chiropractic physicians.
Exactly Edward Durkin. I much prefer being an active participant and receive benefits than be a passive non participant whose only activity is criticism.
The hubris is high 😀
These clever Napropaths are excellent marketers. They even have a “School” in Santa Fe New Mexico. They trade their services, for Advertorials in the local papers Opinion Section. That is a way to get around the Advertising and false health claims laws or what is left of them. They found that fear of “Addiction” is a great misleading marketing tool. Our state has a real problem with Heroin Addiction, which they are still claiming is due to prescription drugs. It is unlikely that Napropathy has had any impact on Heroin Addiction, yet they are peddling their services as if they do.
It is no wonder our state has the highest rates of Heroin Addiction and Suicide in the nation. Our country used to have laws about false health claims, now they get around the laws with misinformation, and well placed Advertorials. There have been no “Studies” of Napropathy here in the US, because the outcomes would be subject to examination. It looks like they decided the Swedish Studies were good enough Sweden has Universal Healthcare, and Labor Regulations, unlike the US, so their subjects would not correlate with American Subjects. Here in the U.S.A it looks like the goal, in healthcare is to mislead people, in order to maximize profits.
The real test here should be, Is this treatment better than, say a really good massage, by an excellent masseuse? It is unlikely the answer would ever be yes. These “Techniques” were developed because massage takes time, and it is physically impossible for a masseuse to make an exponential amount of money. Chiropractors and napropaths can sell us on the idea that a few moves, performed quickly in the office, is equivalent to an actual massage. Of course there has never been any testing or comparison, because the findings would not support the quackery.
In Sweden they have access to actual healthcare, and time off from their work when injured, unlike the US. So they would not represent a sample of American “Pain Patients.” They carefully worded that the pain lasted > than 2 weeks, in the subjects. This does not mean that any had the kind of chronic pain, that many Americans are dealing with. They mislead us all by claiming this is a representative sample, when it clearly is not.
Our local napropath traded free sessions with clinic workers, at a low income clinic, in order to get a free endorsement in our local paper. They even got a Physician there to claim Napropathy could stop Opiate Addiction, even though there is evidence to the contrary. Santa Fe New Mexico has high rates of heroin addiction, suicide, hopelessness and despair, and Napropathy, along with other alternative medicine, has not impacted the numbers one bit. In Fact it appears to have added to the level of despair. No one keeps track of the number of people who had a diagnosis postponed, because of a napropath, and that postponement led to more injury or disability. People market this stuff as if it is harmless, but it is not, it is dangerous, for the percentage of people with serious physical injury, cancer or misdiagnosed underlying condition. The same Physician that recommended the napropath, referred a patient with kidney cancer to a Chiropractor, even though she was a long term patients, at risk of kidney cancer. The poor woman spent her limited SS check on a Chiropractor who sold her useless herbs supplements, and had her come in 2X a week. These dangerous alternative practitioners have no qualms against taking money form sick and desperate people. This poor woman saw this physician over the course of three yearas as her cancer advanced, and she became sicker. The Physician attributed her “Back Pain” to Hysteria or Conversion disorder, in order to keep the clinics expenses down.
The US has the most expensive and least effective healthcare in the developed world, so these clever hucksters found a way to exploit the most vulnerable. sick and desperate among us.
It would not surprise me at all if the testimonial on here for Napropathy were paid for, by the industry. These alternative practitioners know how to deceive the public through social media advertising, and trolling sites like this.
Mavis as a fellow New Mexican from Santa Fe I am surprised you are against something that natural and may be able to help a person help in a drug free way. You may also want do some research into Naprapathy.
I find it coincidental that you may this review the same day my wife went in for her first therapy session at the school you mentioned. My wife has visited masseuses, chiropractors and has been on medication for her pain for a long time, and after her first visit to the school she was able to walk a lot better than she ever has. Her chronic pain has subsided quite a bit, and she has been able to do a lot more than she has the last two and half years.
The therapist was able to diagnose that her hip alignment was off, and was causing her to be unable to handle any pressure to it, including walking.
But I guess it is all quackery because you say so, and you want our state to continue down the road of overprescribing opiates.
Mr Sandoval,
New Mexico has some of the most restrictive opiate prescribing rules in the nation. In Fact, because there was a long term problem with heroin addiction here long before the so called “Opiate Epidemic” rules were put in place in 2011. New Mexico was one of the first states to implement a Prescription Monitoring Database. Your Wife’s anecdotal story, while great for your wife, does not apply to many of the people who are already living with Intractable Chronic Pain. It is unlikely your wife, had an immune disorder, multiple spine surgeries, or a battlefield injury. These types of conditions are often confused in marketing like this, where they portray all pain conditions equally. The marketing and hype in Santa Fe, has been really deceptive. If these alternative cures, actually worked then why are there so many Heroin Addicts here or in Rio Arriba?
The Medical Marijuana Industry uses the same kind of deceptive fear based marketing. It has led to more ignorance, and a viral kind of blame directed at people with chronic pain. I have friends and acquaintances in Santa Fe that are considering suicide, because they live with chronic pain, and they have spent thousands on these alternative treatments. There has been no research on how postponing care, by seeking out alternatives, could lead to more chronic pain. ad a No Agency in New Mexico keeps track of how many people are hurt or have had a serious condition go unchecked, because of alternative treatments.
I have an acquaintance who is drinking herself to death, because she has had several spine surgeries, and her doctor told her that the rods they placed in her spine, now need to be removed. I know a woman with multiple hip surgeries, the implants they gave her failed, and subsequent surgeries did not relieve the pain. She was a vital woman who loved to cook and a talented artist. The untreated pain, and the non opiate pain relievers turned her into a zombie, who can barely leave her home.
The Problem here Mr Sandoval, is that deceptive marketers like these Napropaths, Chiropractors, Medical Marijuana, and the other Quacks in Santa Fe, equate occasional pain that resolves over time, with serious painful health issues. Almost a third of all people who undergo spine surgery are left with chronic pain, and in some cases opiates improve their quality of life. People do not need opiates or medical intervention for every little thing, but they do make life a little more livable for people with intractable chronic pain.
New Mexico is dealing with a lot more than the so called Opiates Epidemic. There is long term poverty, inequality, and lack of opportunity. It is really an Epidemic of Despair. The problem is generational here. At the same time there is a lack of access to adequate healthcare. The Psycho Social problems led to the addictions and deaths of despair. At the same time there is a pattern of denial, and it is furthered by this kind of deceptive marketing.
Our local news media has been running a false narrative about addiction, poverty and lack of opportunity. If they had been factually covering the issues, and people were truly informed, they would not fall for deceptive marketing. Currently the narrative around opiates, gets attention Marketers s call it “Engaging” using and emotional hook to get people’s attention. Fear based marketing is effective. Our state epidemiologist declared that New Mexico was at the “forefront” but that was only because we already had a large number of heroin addicts here for decades. For local news misinformation, announcing that prescription drugs are to blame, just sounds better than endemic heroin addiction. It also silences all of the people with chronic pain, the medical mistakes, injured blue collar workers, and seniors who worked hard all of their lives, and now are forced to live with serious painful conditions. The lack of empathy here is palpable.
It is highly unlikely that any of these alternative treatment can cure anyone with serious medical conditions, yet they continue to market them as if they do. Driving south through Espanola, I saw one alternative practitioner after another, yet there are still people addicted to Heroin, and other drugs. There is still massive inequality, displacement, and despair. On top of it all there was Denial.
I’m not criticising your clearly heartfelt and well argued comment. However, I am curious about one thing. It’s the line, “the non opiate pain relievers turned her into a zombie,” Both my wife and I have unfortunately extensive experience of chronic pain but neither of us have ever encountered pain medication that has such an effect. Opioids, yes, non-narcotics, no. What drugs are you referring to? I’ve just noticed that you said opiates not opioids, is that what you meant? Do you just mean drugs that work the same way but are derived from poppies> Please explain, I’m confused.
Matt,
I think you have misunderstood what Ms Johnson was saying. My reading is that it was the untreated pain, which was not relieved by non-opiate pain-killers, which turned her friend into a zombie.
They have truly gone crazy in new Mexico.
http://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/health_and_science/disabling-conditions-may-lead-to-addiction-to-opioids/article_993feede-f16e-534e-857e-4f1023e02a5f.html
There is zero evidence that Napropathy has had any effect on our local Heroin Addicts. This Napropath was really pleased with this free advertising. This underhanded attack on the disabled who could be “Addicted” even though physicians are not prescribing opiates much anymore, and the death rate from Heroin has only been slowed due to reversal drugs. New Mexico had a Heroin problem long before the current so called opiate epidemic. It should be considered ghoulish to promote a profitable business, by claiming people on SS with Musculo Skeletal injuries are drug addicts. For every one of the studies he took from major media there are several to discredit them.
There used to be Laws regarding his kind of misleading healthcare advertising. Now we have D.O.Ms peddling Stem Cell treatments and infusions.
One of the most notable ‘Doctors of Naprapathy’ was Dr Harlan Tarbell who worked as a medical assistant in the first world war and did indeed have success in helping local people on the European continent in its aftermath.
He acknowledge that his success in this field was due to the force of his personality, and the techniques he had learnt as an entertainer before the war.
He had started out as a professional magician, and after the war, returned to develop the much acclaimed ‘Tarbell Course in Magic’ – which is still available today. He always used the moniker ‘Dr Tarbell’.
Says it all!
I am not surprised, the two enterprises are similar, both use deceptions, and tricks. It looks like that troll, removed his nasty comments. Our local Napro Paths like to use Internet Marketing, encouraging their students, patients, and even local physicians, who work with low income patients that can’t even afford Napropathy, to endorse them on social media. They even got a local “Disability Expert” to endorse them, while provoking more stigma and hate at people with disabilities. Most of the information in his Advertorial is incorrect if not an outright lie.
Richard that does not say it all. Your comment is about Dr Harlan Tarbell, an actor and magician. Speaking about his title in no way should imply every one is the same anymore than you would want someone to say that about you. Dr Patch Adams was a clown…but that did not make him less of a doctor.
Such bunk and stereotypical assumptions. Fortunately there is a whole world leaving you behind and your assumptions.
The admissions requirements for Naprapaths in America are similar in nature to a physiotherapist. One difference is the requirement of CE’s for the license which is not required for PT’s. As part of the pre-degree expectations for Naprapathic license and for PT, there is no call for magician course work. And though what you said bares truth and humor, it is unique to Dr Tarbell. So be mindful please. You are judging ones professional work on a limited scope of professional knowledge.
I am also somewhat sceptical, but also a person of science with a large curiosity, especially within neuroscience. I’ve been trying to figure out if there’s any basis for a technique that seems to be used by naprapaths, and which at least sounds plausible. They supposedly tested my muscle tone this way, and concluded I was “hypertonic”. Does anyone know what this technique is called, and if there’s any neurological basis for it? I managed to find absolutely nothing. It works in 3 steps (this is supposedly a TEST of muscle tone, and not a treatment):
1.) Asking the patient to push against the practitioners force with some (agonistic) muscle, e.g. trying to force the patient’s arm downwards while the patient is pushing it upwards.
2.) Stimulating another muscle or part of the body (nociceptors/free nerve endings in the skin above/around the muscle) (perhaps antagonistic one) by gentle touch such as scratching; palming; flicking; and even snapping ones fingers above the muscle (to “create sonic waves affecting nociceptors over a larger area”);
3.) Repeating step 1 with the same muscle (as in step 1).
To me it sounds really plausible that muscle tone is changed on one side of a joint or of the body to “make ready” from a strike or push or something similar from the other side, but I’m largely sceptical that this can be due to such gentle touches as even a sonic wave from a finger snap. Anyone have any hard information on this?
sound like ‘applied kinesiology’; more can be found here:
https://edzardernst.com/2017/07/applied-kinesiology-implausible-unproven-and-yet-incredibly-popular/
and here:
https://edzardernst.com/2014/09/kinesiology-tape-another-theatrical-placebo/
When I learnt how to elicit spinal reflexes as a medical student I was taught that weak or absent reflexes can be strengthened by “enhancement” which consisted of actively increasing the tone in another muscle group, for instance by locking both hands together and trying to pull them apart. It sounds as though step 1 as you describe is intended to enhance various spinal or cortical reflex responses to the stimulation applied in step 2. The only thing I would imagine that snapping the fingers might do is to elicit a startle response to the unexpected sound.
I suppose some of these techniques might tell you something about whether various neurological pathways are intact, but it sounds like an unorthodox way to go about it.
Like it or not, Naprapathic Medicine is here to stay. The negative opinions I’ve read so far about Naprapathy are totally baseless. Naprapathic Medicine is scientific and more importantly evidence-based. These facts are the irrefutable and welcome argument from better-educated opinions other than the mental midgets spewing forth nonsense about a God sent profession, read above. It seems to me the negative opinions written about Naprapathic Medicine were written by competitors who obviously feel threatened by the success that Naprapathic Medicine now enjoys. The majority of the population have tried everything else and know what harm drugs, surgery and so called scientific physiotherapy can do.
Bring the Noise!!!!! Long live Naprapathic Medicine.
you are a doctor of what precisely?
agreed. Evidence based alone is enough. People in pain need to feel better and are less duped by baseless opinions! Keep your need to be a critic for the sun is shining and I rather go out to play….cause I can…thanks to good Naprapathic healing!
Thank you Dr Charles Greer
Mr Greer<
My community has a "School of Napropathy" and pretty much anyone seeking to make a fast back that can come up with 50K is sudenly a "Doctor." What I fnd really disturbing is the ways they have to market their industry. After all if Naptorpathy was so wonderull, wouldn't someone be benefitting, other than financially. There is zero evidnece anyhwere that shows that napropathy is any better than a massage. It is a gimmick, a con, a scam, nothing more. Our country used to have laws regarding healthcare marketing, and with the advent of the internet and the proliferation of content marketing, in our media, people are being duped. The most disgusing thing of all is that sleazy napropaths are using the so called opiate epidemic to market themsleves. There is zero evidence for any impact on presciption opiate use, or heroin, and other street drug usage, impacted by napropathy. The FTC used to regulate health marketing claims, but they dont any longer, allowing people like you to decpetively market their businesses. In Post Fact America, anything goes, and people like you ave taken full advantage of the lack of credible fact based information.
At lest I have the satisfaction that comes from making a Napropath cry. Asking a few questions of a well advertised Napropath can bring them to tears. What is really disgusting and illuminating is asking the receptionist if the "Doctor" is an MD. They will dissmble on that question, as directed by their boss. Our American healthcare system more closely resembles a criminal conspiracy, than anythng beneficial, to patient. The adverse events from chiropractors, napropaths, and other quacks, are not tracked, and it is all by design.
Wow I cant believe all the negative in regards to a Naprapath.
Well I am a Naprapath and have been for 15yrs. I actually work with a medical doctor to help people in pain. And people who are on many medications.
And have written a book about it.
It’s called what happen when you touch the body. There are a collection of many cases over the years. And I would not call this magical it’s hard work.
I see around 60 people per week. And the Traumatize people out there is unreal. So it’s not just correcting there spine and stretching. Its making emotional contact and listening that cures the patient..and address the need
And correct the repetitive behaviors and they start to get better. So whoever wrote all the nasty things wait till you are in pain and cant get any relief u will be looking for a Naprapath.
I have people who believe in it so much will fly from another state just to receive the proper treatment..also I had a gentlemen who had been I Vitanam war and had agent orange in his lower body.
I saw him for over a year 1x per week.
This man says I cured him. So I can keep going with many stories. Or read my book it’s on amazon. There are many sources of healing . Pills dont heal.
Healing is in the mind and body.
please note the difference between anecdote and evidence
https://edzardernst.com/2012/11/what-is-and-what-isnt-clinical-evidence-and-why-is-the-distinction-important/
do you have any evidence?
Yes the data is in my book so check it out
you have no idea what one understands by data, have you?
Thes vulnerabilities are to be found in all clinical research where there is always an extraneous variable that can be argued to account for the variance. The author, in taking this fact in what are essentially findings in support of naprapathy and proceeding to the conclusion that therefore naprapathy is “quackery” is making a false and unjustified logical step.
@Rosalinda Perez
Your book was published in 2011. Its co-author is Clive Hazell: on the Amazon.co.uk website he is listed as the sole author. On the Rakuten Kobo website the book is classified under “Nonfiction, Religion & Spirituality, New Age, Mental & Spiritual Healing”.
In eight years since its publication, the book has not yet attracted a single review on Amazon.com, Amazon.co.uk, Rakuten Kobo or Google Books. The latter website offers a free on-line preview of the book’s first 13 pages. These include two ‘cases’ and one ‘case vignette’. If they are anything to judge the rest by then, as Edzard said, “you have no idea what one understands by data, have you?”
Statements made without the benefit of intellect. Evidence is how the Patient feels after the treatment. If you are in so much pain that you do not know what to do when you walk into a Naprapath’s Office and leave feeling a hell of a lot better, then it is a “NO BRAINER”. You have never gone to a Naprapath, so what makes you so knowledgeable?
Who can you say you have helped restore their body back to a state of equilibrium? The Thousands of people I have helped know the real truth. You and your drugs have only helped your pocket and destroyed countless number of lives. You will never be able to stop the Alternative Medicine revolution with your filthy lies and ignorant pseudo-facts. Educate yourself idiot!!!!!
Learn how to spell NAPRAPATHY
Statements made without the benefit of intellect.
yes, that describes your comment well!
“Evidence is how the Patient feels after the treatment.” Oh dear, is this really what we have come to? Yes, we have also all recently learnt that there’s evidence that the earth is flat, since well, I mean it does kinda look flat, and I heard others think so too, so it’s not just me. I have been to at least 10 different Naprapaths during my life, and only once have I felt I got more than a good massage (which is not nothing) out of it. That time I got really good exercises that worked (to treat acute back pain). They were very simple however, and it was very reasonable that those gentle movement exercises would help; Any physical therapist (even youtube) could’ve done the same. The patient feeling better is NOT evidence (per se) of anything else than that the patient is feeling better. It’s good that they feel better, and it’s maybe even likely that it’s directly related to the specific treatment and not just that any pressure on that muscle would’ve done the same. The problem is calling things like that ‘evidence’, and convincing yourself that you have actually learnt anything real about how the human body works. That’s greatly underestimating how complex these systems are. So, the problem is not that they never do anything good, because I’m sure they do, whether it’s placebo or not; The problem is the often very unscientific attitude and approach to learning, where you take things for true or at least plausible on single (or few) occurances and pass them on without sceptisicism, creating a chineese whispers portraying as actual science, and even sometimes worse, becoming fundamentalism; e.g. If someone is curious how something actually works, and try to ask them about scientific explanations, instead of just saying there are none, and it just seem to work for most people, they take it as an attack and get very fundamentalistic about it. (This has happened to me several times.) They should be curious themselves and applaud it, and treat it scientificly if they’re actually interested in how things work. Please people, learning about how the world works and doing science has never been easier, you don’t need this.
no, this is not what WE have come to; it is what quacks proclaim.
]I feel reproducibly better after a glass of Champagne]
Fair enough, it was just a matter of expression. Yes, same here, and I’ve vaguely heard a small amount of alchohol per day is actually good (I think there’s even scientific evidence of it). Let’s not try to study it, be aware of the complexity, or sceptical, but just pass it along as sound advice 😉
@Christopher
“creating a chinese whispers portraying as actual science, and even sometimes worse, becoming fundamentalism”.
Beautifully put!
I went to the source, and spoke with several napropaths and one cried. The poor guy had been inundated with phone calls from desperate people with pain, after a particularly good advertorial in the local paper. He was not prepared for people with actual painful medical conditions. Our area has few medical resources leaving a lot of people in desperate situations. These desperate people are easy pickings for these con artists.
I was educated in science and facts, so I don’t fall for every false claim these quacks make. I also do not believe every bit of nonsense they post on social media, it is almost like a multi level marketing scheme. I also do not care how they spell their made up profession. If naprathy actually worked, would we all be using it? How about my friends acquaintances with arthritis, genetic disorders, long healed injuries, amputations, and multiple surgeries? Naprapthy was not designed for any of that.
I bet I could get better results than any napropath, with a few massage techniques and positive talk!
Don’t get angry and attack me, because you have been duped. I feel sorry for you.
Well I think this group has found itself an appropriate spokesperson. Such an evidence based retort filled to the brim with scientific debate and data.
Eeeexccuse me! No reputable scientific researcher anywhere has done an analysis of napropathy or compared it to either allopathic medicine or even nothing. There are no scientific studies to base this on, because no one is stupid enough to do them. Even the napropaths know that a real RCT would show no conclusion, or the fact that napropathy is not as beneficial as a massage.
It was really clear from my interrogation of napropaths on the phone, they had no experience with people with certain conditions. All 3 were more concerned about payment, and scheduling than why I was seeking a treatment. They even tried to get me to commit to multiple sessions, before even seeing them, when I told them I would be paying cash. None of them offered any money back, if they could not cure me. They are seeking out patients who are gullible, and have money. They all used a few salesman’s tricks, to encourage me to make an appointment. Of course we have the napropathy school here, and they were duped into thinking there would be more demand for their services.
There is absolutely zero evidence either way! I can only go on anecdotal evidence, and the people I know, who tried napropathy were less than enthusiastic about it.
I do not view any of the studies, that napropaths claim supports their profession, as scientific.
Edzard, enough foolish so-called scientific, educated assesments from a trained Allopathic Physician. When asked, everything that involves Alternative Medicine in your eyesight is quackery. Fortunately, every Medically trained Allopathic Physician does not have your points of view. I have partnered with Orthopaedic Surgeons, Medical Pain Specialists, General practitioners, Thoracic Surgeons, Forensic Pathologists and Others during the course, whom appreciate the Services that Naprapaths provide. Many of my current patients are Medical Physicians. Educate yourself. Visit a Naprapath to learn first hand. I expect your outlook will certainly change.
I think it would be wise for you to stop embarrassing yourself by posting utter BS;
see for instance here:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18318982
you’ll be glad to hear that I re-considered naprapathy in a new post today:
https://edzardernst.com/2019/04/naprapathy-re-visited-but-its-still-not-evidence-based/
Would a naprapath explain why, if they wanted to be regarded as a ‘doctor’, they did not train, study and qualify as a MD before going on to study (and research) ‘naprapathy’ as post -graduates.
What did they find so attractive about the ‘naprapathic profession’? What is it they thought becoming a naprapath would do that becoming a MD would not?
Thank you.
Richard Rawlins (like naprapath the late ‘Dr’ Harlan Tarbell, also a magician. Tarbell knew how ‘naprapathy ‘worked’.)
Yes, I think this is a very good question, that I would also like a genuine answer to. This, like many other similar questions, should not be too hard to answer honestly and concretely. But, as I explained above, and we are seeing some examples of in this thread, it seems far easier to get fundamentalistic about it.
Whatever you are trying to protect, you are not doing it well by succumbing to anger and namecalling. Atleast show your own field some respect, and treat it with curiosity. There’s nothing more wonderful than all the things we do not know about how the world works, and we know zilch about the methods of naprapathy, so go out there and explore if you like it soo much. Do not make it your religion.
I don’t see you asking anybody else what kind of doctor they are but then again Dr. Green is the only doctor refuting you so…
Looks like you blew your bugle and summoned every low lite scientific mind in America to your defense. The fact still remains that Naprapathic Medical treatment is still a hell of a lot better than Opiate addiction, which only places a mask over a problem and creates drug addicts in America. When you can actually help rid the world of pain and suffering you may then blow that horn.
Dear Richard Rawlins so is hypnotism. In all of your long, long training can you say you personally have helped anyone?
Ordering exams after exams only to prescribe medication that cures nothing. Sounds like another two-bit drug dealer who doesn’t have to stand on the corner to me. Fortunately, all Medical physicians are not created equal. Many are Ethical and welcome all disciplines who contribute to eliminating pain and suffering of mankind. These are the opinions I listen to and respect. All I’m hearing is negativity coming from the bowels of humanity. Don’t waste your time with a response because no one will be listening. Have a good life!!!!!!!!
“Naprapathic Medical treatment is still a hell of a lot better than Opiate addiction”
they evidently do not teach logic in Napra-School!
Edzard, it seems your logic has been engulfed by beta amyloid and is accumulating to form hard, insoluble plaques and neurofibrillary tangles so thick that a .50 cal Raufoss round couldn’t penetrate that thick head of yours!!
nice pretence to understanding medicine, pseudo-doctor Mark!
yet, you probably know that it is stupid.
I’m not so sure he knows that.
How funny that “Dr.” Mark apparently thinks that logic is a material thing…
😀
“These are the opinions I listen to and respect.”
i.e. the ones who refer you patients.
I have also learnt that it is wise not to annoy people who might direct work in my direction. In fact, when I was a junior doctor there was a senior radiologist who was often rude to trainees, including me. As it happened some 15 years later I became a consultant in the same hospital, and I never referred him any private patients.
“Naprapathic Medical treatment is still a hell of a lot better than Opiate addiction, which only places a mask over a problem and creates drug addicts in America”
It’s funny, it doesn’t do that very much in the UK. I have prescribed a lot of opiates for cancer pain over the years, and indeed received them myself for a while when my T12 vertebra collapsed due to myeloma. I never encountered any addiction.
The problem isn’t the opiates, it is the way that they are prescribed by physicians with no training in pain control or in how to use them safely and effectively, as well as the widespread use of illegally manufactured and sourced opiates, which for some reason are referred to as “prescription drugs” even though you don’t need a prescription to get them from a dealer. Allowing pharmaceutical companies to advertise direct to the public doesn’t help, either, and nor does criminalising drug use rather than approaching it as a public health problem.
Faux-doctor “GREER”: you have a such a soft, kind demeanor and polite character that anyone would feel better just being in your company…irrespective of what scam you try to pull on them: Naprapathy, Scientology, chiroquackery, circumcision or manual coccyx adjusting. I’m sure you defend all of them with equal vigor. Though I do suggest you look into getting your constipation treated. It’s best to stop defecating through your mouth.
Mr Greer, can you provide some robust published scientific peer reviewed and replicated evidence demonstrating that napratherapy is more effective than standard physiotherapy or that its distinctive claims are real and effective?
If either of those does not exist then napratherapy is not evidence based in the way science based fields use the term.
I’m going to try to refrain from giving an opinion but I have to say that about 5 years ago I was treated by an “old school” manipulative osteopath who “cured” me of 30+ years of suffering from chronic knee problems. After a few weeks, I discovered I was able to walk up my front porch steps with no pain and not having to choose odd angles for the first time ever. I was there to see the doc for some shoulder problems. I had been resigned to the fact that my knee problems were just something I had to live with unless I wanted to take pain pills, anti-inflammatories and muscle relaxers all the time.The D.O. pushed around on my legs and I guess my wincing clued him in. He did a pelvic adjustment and literally changed the way I walk. I cant’t tell you that he moved bones or muscles or changed the way my nerves work – I don’t pretend to understand the ‘mechanics’ of it. It did change the way I walk – shortened my gait. The MD’s and an orthopedic surgeon had advised drugs in the past. I still have an occasional flare-up of inflammation but it is now infrequent and minimal and only last a few hours to a couple of days – no longer the chronic condition that I suffered from almost every day for years! I don’t know how things are elsewhere but here in Texas it seems like the the MD’s carry their prescription pads in a ‘quick-draw” holster.
New Mexico has an Osteopath school too. They might be helpful for some kind of conditions. I have an anecdotal story too, about by brother in law, and a recently graduated osteopath from the school in Las Cruces. The poor guy is retired and paid into his insurance his entire life. He was minding his own business sitting at a stop light, when an elderly lady tried to make the light, and then caught in the middle of the road, backed up over him. The poor guy was run over while sitting on his motorcycle. The elderly lady, a retired social worker, “heard something” as he ran him and his bike over.
This guy not being one to make a fuss, refused an ambulance to the hospital. A police officer told him all they would do is give him acetaminophen anyways. In New Mexico even the police are medical experts. The ambulance checked him out, and there were no broken bones. He was more worried about leaving his bike on the side of the road than his condition, so he drove it home. After the adrenaline wore off, the swelling made it almost impossible to move so he went to the doctor. Of course there was not much they could do, he had difficulty walking, was still traumatized and he was black and blue. An X Ray showed no broken bones, yet his knew and pelvis had been run over by a car. After few weeks he was still unable to walk without pain, so he goes to an Osteopath.
The Osteopath took one look at him, and decided he was a “Mexican” he is actually an American born New Mexican of Hispanic descent. the Osteopath decided that this guy a retiree from a state job, was just a scammer. The guy had insurance which he had paid for out of his paycheck for 40 years! The Osteopath made other racist and nasty assumptions about a guy that “did not want to bother anybody, when he was run over at a stop light. Apparently the school in Las Cruces did not prepare an ignorant racist for practicing his Osteopathy. Anyway my BIl was still billed for the consultation. His interaction has me thinking that Osteopaths are another scam. This kind of stuff is well documented in the medical profession too.
These vulnerabilities are to be found in all clinical research where there is always an extraneous variable that can be argued to account for the variance. The author, in taking this fact in what are essentially findings in support of naprapathy and proceeding to the conclusion that therefore naprapathy is “quackery” is making a false and unjustified logical step.
As a patient who has received much relief thanks to my
Dr of NAPRAPATHY, I only hope Edzard and the other
Critics are getting paid for their posts.
That way they aren’t as stupid as they appear to be.
a ‘Dr of Naprapathy’ does not exist, as far as I know.