Be aware of the BS called ‘chiropractic’

36 Responses to Be aware of the BS called ‘chiropractic’

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  Benjamin Krause on Saturday 18 November 2017 at 08:38

  “I wish to propose for the reader’s favourable consideration a doctrine which may, I fear, appear wildly paradoxical and subversive. The doctrine in question is this: that it is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true.“ B Russell

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  Alan Byron on Saturday 18 November 2017 at 11:01

  All these points may well be true. I can only recount my experience. I had upper thoracic pain radiating into the left shoulder very many years ago. An osteopath or chiropracter (I am not sure the difference) performed a directional thrust on the painful point with a ‘crunch’ and the pain disappeared for many years. when it recurred several years later a similar procedure did the trick again. In later life an osteopathic practitioner said it was by now postural arthritis of spine and no manoeuvre would help and advised me on posture, flexibility exercise, x ray and referral to a physician. All responsible and effective procedures. Treatment included advice on posture and movement. This is UK where chiropractors/osteopaths may be more responsible

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  • 

    Edzard on Saturday 18 November 2017 at 11:10

    All these points may well be true. I can only recount my experience. I knew someone who smoked 20 cigarettes per day (or was it cigars?). She never died of lung cancer. Ergo, smoking does not cause cancer.

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  • 

    Ieva Zagante on Saturday 18 November 2017 at 17:41

    And what’s wrong with doing exercise from the very beginning? And doing a proper physical exam to find out whether pain is really associated with your joints?

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  Critical_Chiro on Monday 20 November 2017 at 02:49

  Zero tolerance for these BS chiro’s.
  Your comments match what we have been saying.

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  • 

    Edzard on Monday 20 November 2017 at 08:25

    zero tolerance means you oust them, separate yourself from them, disown them, denounce them…
    I see none of this in the chiro camp.

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    • 

      Critical_Chiro on Tuesday 21 November 2017 at 04:50

      Thank you. Your saying what we are saying Edzard.
      That is exactly what we are saying in regards to the vitalists.

      Reply
• 

  Michael Kenny on Monday 20 November 2017 at 16:40

  Follow the Chiropractic rainbow ? and find a crock ‘o shit.?
  I find @cc’s repetitive rhetoric placing himself as the: “above-the-fray, holier-than-thou” Chiropractor nonsensical.
  He calls himself a Doctor OF Chiropractic YET claims to obviate the ONLY premise to which such a moniker can be applied….a “Doctor” who finds and ameliorates Subluxations. Otherwise he’s practicing Physical Therapy or Medicine without a license. NO subluxations=NO Chiropractic. Period.

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  • 

    Critical_Chiro on Tuesday 21 November 2017 at 04:56

    @MK
    You are full of it. If you had bothered to read my comments over the years on this site you would know my views in regards to the abuse of the title “Doctor”.
    Your BS arguments mirror the evangelical BS chiropractors who I deal with on a regular basis so closely it makes me laugh.
    Do you attend the same church?

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• 

  Michael Kenny on Tuesday 21 November 2017 at 18:29

  Not that it matters, but your response makes no sense. I pointed out that you consistently (having read many of your previous posts) yet inexplicably place yourself above-the-Chiropractic-profession, in that you reiterate a premise;
  “Those other, lesser DCs who believe in subluxation and Chiropractic as a religious-premise do the profession a disservice and don’t speak for the lofty, rehabilitatied ones like moi”….
  Problem is Einstein that IS the profession, both it’s historic basis and it’s typical promulgation throughout the world today…
  That you count yourself-out of such nonsense implies to me that you are NOT a Chiropractor….yet that’s still what you call yourself. It makes NO sense. IF what YOU do as a DC isn’t Chiropractic….then you are practicing PT or medicine without a proper license….nor giving THEM proper credit.
  Here’s a good church doctrine: either call yourself a Chiropractor and hunt subluxations like you were taught OR quit calling yourself a Chiropractor.
  What qualifications do you think you have that affords you the right to reinvent a 125 year old religion that’s perfectly content with itself??

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  • 

    GibleyGibley on Tuesday 21 November 2017 at 21:53

    Michael Kenny.

    Your ignorance of health care, especially treatment providers of Neuro-musculo-skeletal problems is palpable.
    Do some research. Read books by authors such as Meridal Gatterman, Scott Haldeman, Rany Beck, Bierderman, Jull.

    When you have read and understood principles of neurology and neuro-physiology of NMS conditions, you will then be able to comment logically. Up until then you make no sense at all.

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    • 

      Frank Odds on Wednesday 22 November 2017 at 12:56

      @GibleyGibley

      “…you make no sense at all.” I beg to differ. Several of us have tried over the years to induce Critical_Chiro to tell us what chiropractic would look like without the subluxation BS. She has never given us a definitive answer. Michael Kenny has now socked it to C_C more directly than ever. Shorn of subluxations, chiropractic is simply an unorthodox, eccentric, unproven variant of physiotherapy. (Of course, with subluxations, chiropractic is even more desperately eccentric.)

      Medicine offers orthopaedics, physiotherapy and specialist nursing for management of back pain. Why do you imagine deviant, pseudomedical practice devoid of clinical evidence can in any way be superior to medical orthodoxy?

      The authors you refer to have all written books, run institutes, or operated websites that do nothing to dispel these concerns. Meridal Gatterman writes with a straight face about chiropractic subluxations. Randy (not Rany) Beck has rechristened chiropractic as ‘functional neuroscience’. Heaven help mankind if such backdoor practitioners of pseudo-medicine who dodge formal medical training ever succeed in their efforts to become entitled to call themselves ‘primary care physicians’!

      I imagine Critical_Chiro will be responding herself to Michael Kenny with her usual complaint about “carpet-bombing the whole profession” when she and others are doing their best to reform chiropractic. Unfortunately, she doesn’t come over as much of a serious reformer when she hides behind a cloak of anonymity and refuses to explain why chiropractic (free of subluxation BS) needs to exist at all as a separate discipline.

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      • 

        Greg on Thursday 23 November 2017 at 08:08

        Frank, this is a BLOG, so if C_C wants to be anonymous, why do you have a problem with that?

        I see that you do not ask your friend James to reveal his identity so this led me to ask: does Frank know James?

        I found this:
        I am not sure that HealthWatch is the appropriate forum for discussions of religious belief. But the die has been cast, and I cannot let James May’s article (Scepticism and Religion, HealthWatch Newsletter issue 99, Autumn 2015) pass without comment.

        So now in the hunt to unmask James, there are TWO contenders:
        Professor James Alcock: the profile of his comments, his role as prominent alt med sceptic, and location/time of his comments that suggest Canada are pointers to him. The idiotic nature of some of the comments rule against him being a professor of psychiatry.

        James May: don’t know him
        https://www.healthwatch-uk.org/images/Newsletters/Number_99_Highlights.pdf

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        • 

          Frank Odds on Thursday 23 November 2017 at 10:46

          @Greg

          If C_C wants to be anonymous on a blog, that’s fine with me. However, when somebody says they’re constantly involved in efforts to reform their profession I presume they’re normally doing so under their professional name, and might want readers of this blog to see how they’re going about it in the real world outside this blog. Anonymity seems (at least to me) inappropriate for a ‘reformer’.

          I have absolutely no idea who ‘James’ is. I certainly don’t personally know him or her (people don’t necessarily assume a name of their own sex when posting anonymously on a blog). I certainly know of James May, the Chairman of Healthwatch, but I don’t know him personally. You seem very keen to breach the very anonymity you’re defending for ‘Critical_Chiro’, but I guess consistency is not a characteristic you care much about.
        • 

          Greg on Thursday 23 November 2017 at 13:10

          Apologies: I did not include the source of Frank’s statement above:

          Frank Odds on Monday 10 July 2017 at 16:26
          BTW, for those who wonder where Greg picked up this (off-topic) piece, it was a letter I wrote in the winter of 2015 to the editor of Healthwatch Newsletter — the quarterly publication of a charity devoted to evidence-based medicine. I wrote in response to an article by James May, the Healthwatch Chairman, explaining why he was a christian.

          You can link to the Healthwatch website from the home page of this (Edzard Ernst) blog. It’s among the links at the top left of the home page.

          http://edzardernst.com/2017/06/trying-to-understand-a-doctor-homeopath-homeopathy-is-helpful-for-any-condition/
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          Frank Odds on Thursday 23 November 2017 at 18:04

          Greg, I’ve avoided responding to your petulant posts for several months. You forcibly remind me why I regard you as a quasi-troll, if not a full-blooded one.

          “I wrote in response to an article by James May, the Healthwatch Chairman, explaining why he was a christian.” That’s right. It was a response to May’s article in the Healthwatch Newsletter. I don’t know James May any more than the thousands of writers of letters to newspapers and magazines are personally acquainted with the the people they may be writing about. But I can assure you that if I had occasion to choose between a chat with James May or the person who calls himself Greg, James May would win hands down, even though I’m suspicious of his religious beliefs.

          Your comments indicate you are an immature, delusional person who has filled this blog with arrogant, self-important verbiage that has never come even close to presenting a rational argument in support of the homeopathy you find so wonderful. Please assume my ‘off’ switch is once again operative.
        • 

          Critical_Chiro on Friday 24 November 2017 at 05:42

          @Frank Odds
          I keep my identity private to keep the noise down from the vitalistic chiropractors not the critics on this blog site and others like it. I disagree with Blue Wode on many points but I always keep it polite and respect his anonymity. Critical chiropractic friends have had vexatious complaints made to the registration boards, their jobs/practices threatened and had practice management guru’s send their attack lawyers after them for libel (Simon Singh is not alone). The guru’s lost that court case BTW.
          In regards to evidence I used to share your beliefs until the 2008 Supplement of The Spine Journal where Scott Haldeman had experts in 25 different approaches for the treatment of low back pain submit their evidence and then he compared the results. Now I am equally skeptical of the evidence base across the board and chiropractic stacks up well in comparison (low to moderate instead of zero to low for the rest). See here:
          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Evidence-
          informed+management+of+chronic+low+back+pain+with
          When it comes to the management of spinal pain medical orthodoxy has failed badly and the guidelines are now turning to chiropractic and physiotherapy as first line treatments.
          “why chiropractic (free of subluxation BS) needs to exist at all as a separate discipline?”.
          Good question as it mirrors similar discussions we are having with like minded physiotherapists who are fed up with their own entrenched dinosaurs, guru’s and groupies who over service like subluxation chiro’s just using different terms. It may come down to “unite the professionals not the professions”. Interesting times ahead for both professions.

          @Michael Kenny
          Subluxation has never defined how I practice as a chiropractor.
          I never have and NEVER will used the title doctor.
          I practice like the majority of the profession not the BS subbies.
          I have had many conversations with the subbies over the years and they employ the same arguments as you do. “NO subluxations=NO Chiropractic. Period.” and variations on this theme.
          They are afraid of reform as it threatens their business/religious model and you ignore it as it does not fit into your belief on what is chiropractic.
          “125 year old religion that’s perfectly content with itself?”
          Far from content and the vitalists are on the back foot and clumping together/circling the wagons. The Rubicon Group led by Guy Reichman is a prime example. The vitalistic colleges were banding together though there are already cracks appearing with Sherman pulling out. Life college is also in a $100M hole so their expansion plans look like a pipe dream.

          Reform chiropractors get hit from both sides. By the external critics who think all chiro’s are subbies and by the subbies for questioning/abandoning the faith. We also have external critics who

          So Frank “what would chiropractic look like without the subluxation BS?”
          Wherever the evidence leads. Evidence supplied by the likes of Maher, Kawchuk, Mosely, Butler, Hancock, Jull, Hartvigsen, Axen, Leboeuf-Yde, Sullivan, Sullivan, Bussiers, Adams, Bolton, Haldeman, O’Neil, Hodges, Goetz, Pikar, Cassidy, Vernon, Cote etc to name a few.
          It is constantly changing and evolving unlike subluxation. The way I practice now is different to how I practices 5 years ago and vastly different to the way I practiced 25 years ago.
          Adjusting takes up a small % of the consultation. I spend most of my time discussing pain, pain science, lifestyle advice, resilience, CBT, ACT, diet, soft tissue rehab and exercises.
          Exercise is the one thing that defines the physio’s yet as Chris Maher has said “which branch of that religion do you belong to?”. There are so many guru’s in exercise and rehab that it is not funny. So what are the best rehab exercises? Buggered if I know and I am still looking.

          Bottom line. I come on this site to tell the critics to be more targeted in their criticism. Much of what you say is mirrored within the profession. You demand reform yet your happy to take out the reformers. Edzards blog on Charlotte Leboeuf-Yde is a classic. I have cite her repeatedly on this site and it has been met with silence. Then she writes one sentence that Edzard dislikes and he wrote this:
          http://edzardernst.com/2017/04/we-have-an-ethical-legal-and-moral-duty-to-discourage-chiropractic-neck-manipulations
          “I have always thought highly of Charlotte’s work, however, her conclusion made me doubt whether my high opinion of her reasoning was justified.”
          Well if you think highly of her work then why have you not supported it all these years?
          Step1: Point out the BS.
          Step2: Support reform and the reformers otherwise you are …… ……. care to insert the two words Frank?
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          Critical_Chiro on Friday 24 November 2017 at 05:58

          Seems that the like the link got chopped in half. Here it is:
          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?linkname=pubmed_pubmed&from_uid=18164475
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  Michael Kenny on Wednesday 22 November 2017 at 19:32

  Your point@gg?? Frank Odds has spoken well and clearly…..
  I’ll add that I’m very familiar with the suggested literature as well as having attended numerous McGill, Cook, Towmey, Maitland, Mulligan & MacKenzie seminars among others.
  So Haldeman and his father were/are DCs….but Scott became a real doctor….why would he do that IF Chiropractic is such a repleat, expansive and non-dogmatic “science”? What about all the PTs & PhDs you mentioned….are they running off enrolling IN Chiro-clown college, or is it ALWAYS the other-direction?
  No one interested in the pursuit of real science, real efficacious NMS treatment methods or the research of it becomes a Chiropractor. It’s a hood-wink profession. You NEED a real degree to be a serious academic or researcher.
  Granted AFTER the wasted educational-effort becomes apparent a few of the right-minded enroll in a real college and pursue a real degree….Many like @cc self-aggrandize by attempting revisionist history and “reform” by practicing PT without a proper license and telling the world “a reformed DC is just as important as a DPT, or PhD”….but can never explain WHY. Of course the NON-reformed DCs all believe they are vitally MORE valuable than any PhD, PT or MD….read their ads.
  Perhaps you should look into Jews-for-Jesus….that makes no sense whatsoever either.
  Perhaps you should learn to read and assimilate what was said and respond to it instead of drawing erroneous assumptions, creating false equivalencies and suggesting superiority by authority.

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  • 

    Critical_Chiro on Friday 24 November 2017 at 06:36

    @Michael Kenny
    Looks like from those seminars that you are a physio.
    Yes Scott Haldeman became a doctor and neurologist and then published extensively on chiropractic, supports the profession and collaborates with many chiro PhD’s. (His nephew is Elon Musk BTW very talented family).
    https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Scott_Haldeman
    Here in Australia there is Lindsay Rowe who wrote the definitive text on Musculoskeletal Radiology (also used by medico’s) while still a chiro with Terry Yochum then became a doctor and radiologist. Supported the chiropractic profession right up to the end. Passed away recently too young, lovely man and a loss to chiropractic, medicine and radiology.
    “No one interested in the pursuit of real science, real efficacious NMS treatment methods or the research of it becomes a Chiropractor.”
    Hmm are you sure your up on the research. Are you aware of the researchers? You talk like you exist in the past when professions and researchers lived in silo’s. Are you aware of how much collaborative research is going between the professions at present? The days of living in silo’s and taking pot shots at other professions over. Unfortunately the vitalistic chiro’s have not got the message as well.
    Do you question the guru’s and dinosaurs within physiotherapy like James Dunning and Shirley Sarhrmann? You would be a brave man to stand up and question Shirley publicly. Pop onto the Soma Simple website there are some very good physio’s questioning the status quo there.

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      Michael Kenny on Wednesday 29 November 2017 at 17:54

      @cc: Not that it matters but…you bloviate and always come ‘round to further rhetoric and protectionism. Why? Do epidemiologists or astrophysicists need to circle-their-wagons and defend themselves? And Chiropractors DO live in silos…you yourself regularly drop snide-bombs on ostensibly the “minority” of your fellows (actually the vast majority) and many of the colleges. Do THEY do collaborative research with other real-professionals to prove or dis-prove their brand of Chiropractic?
      What percentage are you describing as the “reformers” (better described as usurpers or imposters) like yourself who are being sought-out for collaboration? WHAT percentage of real scientists don’t inherently already KNOW Chiropractic is a religion? None. They all do (Haldeman may be demonstrating the Stockholm-syndrome…who knows. But he practices as a neurologist…and NOT a Chiropractic-neurologist).

      I still ask: show a list of MSc, PhDs, MDs or DPT/PTs who aquire a DC degree (AFTER their real degree) to enhance-their-resume, professional status, academic, clinical or research acumen and acceptance.
      IF a DC degree is a real degree of real, unique scientific benefit and equal-standards (as opposed to an utterly non-transferable $200,000 license-to-defraud) WHERE are all these enthusiastic multi-degreed nascent DCs?
      And are you really comfortable with your machinations regarding “DC collaborations”?
      HOW would a Life, Logan, CCC, Sherman, Palmer etc etc DC ADD value to a REAL research project involving biomechanics, physics, statistics, orthopedics, logistics etc, etc ?? Without another viable college education?
      Why aren’t DCs being regularly “tapped” for real-research projects? They aren’t….hardly ever (perhaps Deed Harrison as the enigma but he publishes to support his brand).
      They are included when they need someone to deliver-Chiropractic-theatrics to a cohort of people…typically to prove A+B vs A “works better”. My DO family doctor delivers a better HVLA than any DC I’ve been to. I’m sure she’d be awesome whacking me with an Activtor, drop-table or Atlas-resetting as well (theatrics obviously requiring a four-year college degree…).
      I truly feel sympathy for people unable to separate facts from fiction. But as you prove, at root it’s always based in emotional and financial protectionism.

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      • 

        Critical_Chiro on Monday 04 December 2017 at 01:43

        @Michael Kenny
        I love your choice of words, ALWAYS, PERIOD, REAL….
        “NO subluxations=NO Chiropractic. Period.”
        The subbies are fond of absolutes as well. You have so much in common and your both desperately cling to the same religious belief.
        “Otherwise he’s practicing Physical Therapy or Medicine without a license.”
        If I do not subscribe to subluxation then I am a “usurper and imposter”.
        “machinations regarding “DC collaborations”.
        Now your into conspiracy thories. You are so like the subluxationists it is not funny.
        Scott Haldeman held hostage by chiropractic. He is Scott Haldeman DC, MD, PhD not Scott Haldeman MD, PhD.
        I am openly critical of the subluxation and the BS within chiropractic and you call it “snide-bombs”.
        I have talked to many researchers over the years and have asked them why they do not come onto this site and they answer “why bother as they will not change”. You are a prime example.
        Nice to see you dodge the question of guru’s, groupies and similar BS merchants within your own profession.

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        • 

          Edzard on Monday 04 December 2017 at 07:15

          “I am openly critical of the subluxation and the BS within chiropractic…”
          are you sure?
          I would argue that anything done anonymously is not ‘open’ [and largely irrelevant].
        • 

          Michael Kenny on Tuesday 05 December 2017 at 20:19

          @cc: I wasn’t aware this was a testing blog to wit dodging questions was an issue…though many of the most notorious frauds often do tend to answer a question with a question.
          Howsoever you also failed to answer the far more lucrative question I posed:
          Where is the copious list of professionals who have sought out a DC degree AFTER acquiring REAL science-based degrees….to enhance their acedemic, research or science-based credentials and standing???? A short, if not non-existent list indeed. But to you this is likely a carpet-bomb and it’s relevance superfluous.
          As to your ingenious PT “gurus” comment….REAL science may, and indeed must suffer with all the foibles of humankind (appeal to authority, falling prey to gurus’ etc etc….so what is the real point?) however Phyical Medicine Is an evolving part of science-based human endeavoring to get closer to the truth…irrespective of its shortcomings.
          Chiropractic was and is a non-falsifiable Invention of an ignorant charlatan…it was and is presented to the public as a senseless dogma disguised as a profound universal “philosophy”.
          A parsimonious solution to a chimerical problem….
          Irrespective of your inarticulate and pseudo-rational rantings Chiropractic borrows (usurps) from real science anything it offers that has merit. Luckily the vast majority of DCs are content keeping up the fraud brought forward in 1895. If NOT then you are practicing PT without a proper license.
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          Critical_Chiro on Wednesday 06 December 2017 at 07:38

          @EDzard
          Please read this comment above:
          http://edzardernst.com/2017/11/be-aware-of-the-bs-called-chiropractic/#comment-96884
          @Michael Kenny
          “Irrespective of your inarticulate and pseudo-rational rantings Chiropractic borrows (usurps) from real science anything it offers that has merit. Luckily the vast majority of DCs are content keeping up the fraud brought forward in 1895. If NOT then you are practicing PT without a proper license”
          You sound so like a subbie with that sweeping statement. I have to laugh. Priceless.
          Have you bothered to have a look at the evidence base for Maitland, Mulligan, McKenzie, Cook etc which are your core physiotherapy techniques? When you went to those seminars did you bother to ask why or did you just mindlessly accept what was presented?
          The tired old canard “Any evidence is usurped”. You are as devoid of original arguments as the subluxationists.
          And
          “you are practicing PT without a proper license”. Again priceless.
          If you are going to argue like a subluxationist then at least have the decency to use the same terms as them. They accuse me of being a “Medipractor”.
          Sorry to run but I have to go a meeting with my local Orthopods, Neuros, Pain specialists, physio’s and GP’s where we discuss case presentations and how to co-manage patients in a multidisciplinary approach.
        • 

          Michael Kenny on Thursday 07 December 2017 at 15:33

          @cc: Pardon, I used the word inarticulate to describe your rants….clearly I should have said incoherent.
          As you run off to your “meeting” you DON’T bring an Activator, drop-table, bi-lateral scales, Atlas adjusting unit, heat-sensing devices….or miraculous motion-palpation, AK or leg-length-discrepancy testing skills which detect all manner of inappropriate-spinal-motion to which only a DCs manipulation(s) can fix.
          So, WHAT do you do to a pt that they couldn’t do to themselves or learn on innumerable web sites or that EVERY real doctor sitting in that “meeting” wouldn’t know…and likely far better than you?
          I just gave the listing of DC theatrics available in the US. These ARE Chiropractic. Otherwise they are just using modalities, exercise and ergonomics none of which are uniquely sell-able AS Chiropractic. Thus my reiterating that what you propose as reformed Chiropractic is the practice of PT without a proper license. How do u not get that…?
          IF monkeying with the spine doesn’t invoke some miraculous human-health benefits (as you suggest reformed DCs would believe) then where is the profession? Why even have one?
          Do you somehow offer advice to these Orthos, Neuros, Pain mangt and PTs regarding the fact that subluxation ISN’T part of the patient’s problem (in case they think it is…perhaps having been imbued with the idea by some of your lesser-insightful colleagues…who actually follow what they were taught in college…?).
          WHAT prey tell could you offer in the pt mangt that wouldn’t be amply and adeptly available via these other professionals?? Anything you offer would inevitably have come from their respective research institutions NOT yours.
          The more you engage in these incoherent explanations-of-what you aren’t the more your motive of self aggrandizement and embarrassment of your misbegotten profession (“subbies”/subluxationalists) becomes apparent. That you see the fraud of the profession is admirable but denying that your adoption of science-based physical medicine approaches is NOT Chiropractic (and will never be) is specious.
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          Critical_Chiro on Tuesday 12 December 2017 at 22:29

          @MK
          ” that EVERY real doctor sitting in that “meeting” wouldn’t know…and likely far better than you?”
          ” pt mangt that wouldn’t be amply and adeptly available via these other professionals?? Anything you offer would inevitably have come from their respective research institutions NOT yours.”
          Wish I could bring you to our regular meetings Michael. You would find them educational and challenge your cherished beliefs about what is chiropractic. What you would find is a group of professionals where no one has all the answers, no one approach is best, no one professiopn has all the answers and a multidiciplinary approach that benefits the patient and where we all contribute. Chronic pain management is frustrating and the research is still in its infancy and seriously underfunded.
          “That you see the fraud of the profession is admirable but denying that your adoption of science-based physical medicine approaches is NOT Chiropractic (and will never be) is specious.”
          There are crooks in chiropractic who overtreat patients and foster a toxic dependency in patient and practitioner and it is up to the profession to clean them up with the assistance of external critics. Friends of Science in Medicine here have become more and more supportive of the chiropractic critics and reformers and we get along well. In countries like Australia, UK, Canada and the Scandinavian countries this is achievable. In the US with competing state registration boards and wildly varying scope of practice between states I am pessimistic.
          I actually enjoy interacting with the external critics like yourself and look on you as drivers of reform. You are tools. For reform that is. 🙂 I realize that some are unlikely to change but I am also here to put both sides of the argument into the public record.
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  Greg on Thursday 23 November 2017 at 16:42

  Frank: the double standards one encounters on this site can be something to read.

  I am not defending C_C, only pointing out the discrepancy between ‘James’ anonymously pushing his reformer message (abolish homeopathy) which is alright with you, and C_C whoever that is (I don’t have any interest in chiro whatsoever) having to satisfy your public knowledge to be a legitimate reformer.

  Are you are a person that prefers thinking inside a box?

  Reply
• 

  James on Thursday 23 November 2017 at 22:16

  The idiotic nature of some of the comments rule against […]

  That’s the typical Greg, having his usual “objective” take at things.

  My “reformer message”? Nice one Greg! You know, you don’t seem to hunt at all for identities of people that support homeopathy here. So, instead of asking people why they don’t care much about who agrees with them, rather about who disagrees with them, better ask yourself for starters, why you do what you accuse others of… See, I have explained extensively how we don’t really matter so much in a blog as anonymous posters, elsewhere. I know that much. Do you? And would you care to explain why you are so passionately after my identity? Is this your private investigator fetish again?

  In the meantime, better stick to our roles… have you come up with any new arguments in favor of your favorite hobby, homeopathy?

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  • 

    Greg on Friday 24 November 2017 at 08:06

    James, you are an interesting person to have on this blog: tries to appear gentle but has a knife behind back ready to strike.

    So James: are you James May? If so, why not declare it here considering that you meet the Frank Odds criteria for a public campaigner.

    Here is a picture of James May:

    https://www.healthwatch-uk.org/about/people/committee.html

    It would be interesting to know because the psychopathic tendency is something that is found amongst medical practitioners.

    And sociologically interesting too: as Mr Alan Henness is on the Committee too.

    Reply
  • 

    Greg on Friday 24 November 2017 at 09:18

    No James, one of my ‘hobbies’ is reading your drivel on this site. It helps to give me a laugh and cheer up my day.

    By the way, have you got past the 3/7 billion supporters mark yet?

    Reply
    • 

      James on Friday 24 November 2017 at 15:03

      Until you have spotted so much as one or two mistakes or insults on what I write and you call “drivel”, and notified me of it so that we can get down to actual argumentation, it’s you that holds the knife. You said I make idiotic comments, implied I am a psychopath, say I write drivel… Your knife, really…

      Needless to say that your trying to disguise the fact that truth and reality gets on your nerves all too often by pretending you laugh at it is a total failure. The grapes are not sour…you just can’t reach them.

      To end wih a couple of questions (your unanswered question list is steadily approaching 7 billion), why do you have a professorship complex? Is it some childhood dream that couldn’t come true? And, to the point, finally, why don’t you change your mind in the face of all the evidence that homeopathy doesn’t work? The rest of your attacks and defences are immaterial, nobody attacks you or takes your attacks seriously anyway. Focus on argumentations Greg. Open up your mind… talk about homeopathy once in a while. That’s the point in here.

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        Greg on Friday 24 November 2017 at 16:47

        You did not answer the question.

        I am all in: James May

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  Greg on Friday 24 November 2017 at 08:22

  Frank: ‘Greg, I’ve avoided responding to your petulant posts for several months. You forcibly remind me why I regard you as a quasi-troll, if not a full-blooded one.’

  Would Frank like to give an example of this?

  Frank is a person who thinks that because he knows about fungi, he therefore knows about homeopathy, chiropractic, acupuncture, astrology, fortune telling etc. Is there anything that Frank is not expert on?

  C_C’s reply above is fantastic (and I know nothing about chiropractic).

  Come on Frank: give us your take on C_C’s reply.

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  Björn Geir on Friday 24 November 2017 at 21:45

  Here’s a recent picture of our truth-dodging friend Greg. 😀

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    Greg on Saturday 25 November 2017 at 14:25

    Very funny Bjorn. Loved it.

    I found this video of your life and times on edzardernst.com.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGkg5ytaXlA

    (Iqbal and Greg on the hill)

    Reply