MD, PhD, FMedSci, FRSB, FRCP, FRCPEd.

After almost a life-time of exposure to seriously compact BS about alternative medicine, you would expect me to be used to it. And it’s true, I usually don’t bat an eyelash when someone writes nonsense about this or that therapy. But every once in a while, I come across an exception, some statement that is outstanding in its ‘naiveness’ (see below) or ground-breaking in its stupidity. When I found this article, for instance, I almost fell off my chair. So, please hold on tight, if you want to read on:

START OF QUOTE

Dr Edward Bach was a qualified allopathic physician. Later he got his degree in homoeopathy. He discovered 38 Bach flower remedies. Bach remedies are prescribed on basis of mental state of the patient it does not mean that this treatment is confined to the mental cases only. It simply means that the patient is cured physically and mentally by the remedy which is prescribed on the basis of mental symptoms only. ADHD is the disorder which shows the spectrum of signs & symptoms in both mental and physical plane hence Bach flower remedies are helpful in treating this condition.

Chestnut Bud

This is the remedy prepared by boiling the young twigs with shoots. This remedy has a lack of sufficient interest in present circumstances. Chestnut Bud relates to a state of a flighty mind, inattention, and a soul not yet grounded in maturity. Learning experiences of either a factual or moral kind are not integrated into the consciousness to the person’s full benefit. Chestnut bud child is restless and impulsive. The child lacks the power of concentration because of mental hurriedness or precipitation of thoughts. Chestnut child exhibits childish and foolish behaviour which we can relate to the remedies like Bufo, Baryta carb etc. These children are reckless, careless, they lack the power of reasoning. Chestnut bud has general weakness of memory, failure to retain learned material, this being either of factual or moral content. Chestnut bud also has naiveness, immaturity of mind/emotions, developmental delay. Children’s are hyperactive and impulsive they may show impulsive movements; lack of serenity and focused gaze. Chestnut bud is also helpful in kids who have symptoms like disobedience, commit anti-social acts, sins, crimes, again and again, factitious disorders and malingering.

Chestnut Bud has general weakness of memory, failure to retain learned material, this being either of factual or moral content. Chestnut Bud also has naiveness, the immaturity of mind/emotions, developmental delay. Children’s are hyperactive and impulsive they may show impulsive movements; lack of serenity and focused gaze. Chestnut bud is also helpful in kids who have symptoms like disobedience, commit anti-social acts, sins, crimes, again and again, factitious disorders and malingering.

Conclusion
Chestnut Bud helps to improve concentration power and moral growth in ADHD patients which are suffering from other behavioural disorders. It improves the power of reasoning. Many other Bach flower remedies depending upon the mental state of the child can be prescribed.

END OF QUOTE

This is a true treasure trove of fallacious reasoning!

My favourite is the opening argument: “Bach remedies are prescribed on basis of mental state of the patient… [which] means that the patient is cured physically and mentally by the remedy…” 

My runner-up is this statement: “ADHD is the disorder which shows the spectrum of signs & symptoms in both mental and physical plane hence Bach flower remedies are helpful in treating this condition.”

What sharp logic!

What tightly argued thought!

I think this is brilliant and totally convincing  (provided you suffer from terminal stupidity).

29 Responses to Terminal stupidity about ADHD and Bach Flower Remedies

  • I have a flighty mind! It’ s chestnut bud for me! As soon as I can find the chestnut forest here on Crete!
    But wait!I am generally able to retain information!
    That’s one reason I passed my exams!
    And I was just in conversation with a friend who used to work at the Independent when they published a story about th ‘breatharian’ Ellen Greve, and I’d remembered it all in detail! And advised her to check the American gentleman Wiley Brooks, who claimed to live on air and sunshine but who was spotted lwalking down the street with a chicken pie.
    Trouble for Wiley!
    But back to me.
    What to do with someone who is both able and yet unable to retain information?
    Tough job here for the chestnut!

  • These are some of the observations from the various recent researches in ADHD.

    Children may have higher rates of daytime sleepiness.
    50% of children suffering from ADHD had signs of sleep disordered breathing compared to only 22%of children without ADHD.
    There can be restless leg syndrome.

    You can find more information here: https://versionweekly.com/news/health/improper-sleep-causes-adhd-34153.html

  • I’m going to give it a try ! Others remedies have helped me in other ways why not this one !

  • The height if stupidity is passing judgment on something we know nothing about. Compounded with no desire to open your mind with a healthy curiosity to try and understand what it’s all about. Bach flowers, like any other energy medicine practice, does not treat illness, it treats the person’s “state of mind” or “state of being” so that the person can heal. No practice, allopathic or alternative can heal or cure, only the body itself can do it. All practices only assist or aide the body (the immune system) in it’s work. My question to you is: what is your purpose here, to cure people or to prove yourself right? Rigidity creates a loss of movement, therefore there is no advancement. You should try the Bach flower Rock Water.

    • you might know nothing about it, but I do. the evidence shows that it is not more than a placebo. and about an ‘open mind’, you might want to read this: https://edzardernst.com/2018/08/random-thoughts-on-the-issue-of-an-open-mind/
      “what is your purpose here?”
      https://edzardernst.com/2012/10/a-new-blog-on-alternative-medicine-why/

      • Incorrect. A placebo requires the patient’s knowledge if treatment so that they can develop the psychosomatic feeling of wellness.

        Animals and babies are successfully treated every day with flower essences, Bach 38 or not. I know. I’ve used them off and on with my kids for 20 years. Although it took 5 years of many different month-long treatments, my child, who was born with a mental illness, has been symptom-free for over 2 years. She never knew what symptoms were being treated, she just took whatever I gave her. If she was in a refuse-medicine state, we put in her bath. It alleviated the symptoms without her knowledge. 🤷‍♀️

        • Teresa said:

          A placebo requires the patient’s knowledge if treatment so that they can develop the psychosomatic feeling of wellness.

          incorrect.

          Animals and babies are successfully treated every day with flower essences,

          You claim that yet provide not a jot of evidence…

          Bach 38 or not.

          Well, we know they are not medicines…

          I know.

          Ah. I see your problem.

          I’ve used them off and on with my kids for 20 years. Although it took 5 years of many different month-long treatments, my child, who was born with a mental illness, has been symptom-free for over 2 years. She never knew what symptoms were being treated, she just took whatever I gave her. If she was in a refuse-medicine state, we put in her bath. It alleviated the symptoms without her knowledge.

          So many unanswered questions… How do you know it wasn’t the baths that cured her of her supposed illness? And how do you know she didn’t just grow out of whatever you thought she had?

        • There is research suggesting mental-illness is inherited. As perhaps it was in this case?

        • Interesting word salad in that first sentence Teresa.

          Please come back when you’ve got something coherent or relevant to contribute.

        • Animals and babies are successfully treated every day with flower essences…

          …but never report that they feel better. That observation is inevitably made by someone who knows that they have been treated.

        • Although it took 5 years of many different month-long treatments, my child, who was born with a mental illness, has been symptom-free for over 2 years

          I’m sorry to tell you that you have been fooling yourself. Young children with mental conditions almost always make progression of sorts, up to and including near-full recovery. This is exactly how con artists homeopaths manage to extract up to thousands of dollars from gullible parents of autistic children with their CEASE-‘therapy’, which is typically administered over a similarly long period.

        • “Although it took 5 years of many different month-long treatments, my child, who was born with a mental illness, has been symptom-free for over 2 years.”

          Sounds suspiciously like somebody’s got a mental illness, and it ain’t the kid.

    • There must be something you can suggest for yourself to counter all your aggression, negativity and downright rudeness?

      But instead of a Bach Flower product, I think Prof Ernst would prefer his alcohol in the form of a nice Merlot or Bordeaux.

      By the way, Bach Flower products are just foods, not medicines.

    • Oh look. Another stunted intellect is here to demonstrate to one and all the extent of their gullibility and the limits of their understanding. Will they go away nodding with their supposedly open minds having been educated and changed or will they continue to ignore what science has demonstrated and remain convinced by their own biases and flawed powers of observation? Let me guess..

  • I am soo sorry for you Edzard. You paid so much for all the titles you gained and in the end you do not know anything about the world you are living in. You are making a fool of yourself with this article.

  • . I have personally used the flower remedy holly and cherry plum when I was in a state of huge anger suspicion and jeousy. Honestly if I had seen the person I felt this towards, I would have hit them. Within 10 minutes I was calm and reserved. I do however believe that everyone to their own belief system. Whatever floats your boat. I have been let down by conventional medicine to many times. The results with homeopathy and the Bach flower remedies have been nothing short of miraculous in my home. Thank you so much for this article. It has explained this particular flower remedy very well.

  • Even I see difference in my son’s a ADHD whenever I give him Bach flower .it really really works even I have tried it for my some problems and I really is amazed with the effect .if it’s placebo why a kid shows the differences which are stated for a particular flower remedy, when he doesn’t even know about the medicines he is taking and what effect is written about it.I really ask people here to be open minded and try this because it’s really helped in improving my life in lots and lots of issues that I had or even many whom I know is experiencing same progess with there issues.

    please let people try and make their own decisions and don’t keep adhd / autism kids away from this remedy. let them have the benefit don’t be so negative that somebody be deprived of this medicine.

    • I suspect your child is responding to changes in your behaviour based on your own expectations of the Bach flower remedies.

    • you could easily test this:
      take an empty bottle of Bach flower remedy -> fill it with a water/brandy mixture so that it tastes just like the real remedy -> have a 3rd person label the 2 different bottles -> wrap them both into alu foil -> give your child the remedies in a random fashion for a few weeks -> determine which bottle was the placebo and which was the real remedy.
      my predicition is that you will not be able to tell the difference.

  • I’m going to admit I was skeptical but decided to give the essences a try out of desperation. My daughter has inattentive- ADHD and dyslexia. This past school year she went into a depression after starting high school and completely shut down and stopped doing her work. She almost failed every nine weeks. She could not keep up and was in a very low place. This year we have seen a different child since starting the essences. I gave her Mustard for depression, Chestnut Bud, and clematis. Within weeks of starting them I got a call from her math teacher saying he has never seen such a drastic change in a child, especially when it comes to focus and initiative. She went on to make mostly A’s and B’s this year and has had one of the most successful school years to date. I can’t explain it by placebo because my daughter had no idea what I was giving her. I’m the queen of using the placebo effect to my advantage, so I purposely did not tell her anything about them because I wanted to see if they worked. Side note- Smarties Candy works great as fake sleeping pills for young children. They worked like a dream to get my kids to sleep when they were little. 🙂 But at the end of the day I am okay if people want to think it was placebo. I truly don’t believe it was based on the change I saw take place in her. It was pretty incredible. At the end of the day they aren’t expensive and have no side effects. I didn’t have anything to lose by trying them and ended up gaining a lot. I’m very happy with the results no matter how they happened.

    • You seem to be recommending the placebo effect when it suits you and denying its influence when it doesn’t, based on a non-randomised non-blinded trial of N=1 (or however many children you had). I don’t wish to appear rude (academic rigour can seem like rudeness at times) but you shouldn’t expect anybody to take what you are saying seriously in this sort of discussion.

      • No offense taken. They are welcome to take it anyway they want. I didn’t post with high expectations I’d be seen as some expert. I found this page before I started using the essences and wanted to go back and share my experience since I was a skeptic. I didn’t perform a rigorous scientific trial. You might be right. It could be the placebo effect. She doesn’t know anything about them or was told they were going to help her focus, feel better, etc. In my experience that is usually what helps the placebo effect work. The person usually needs to think something is going to happen or impact them in a certain way to form the belief needed for the placebo to work. But maybe it still worked without this knowledge? I can’t say for sure. I’m not denying it’s influence to suit me. I have nothing to gain from sharing my experience. I don’t sell Bach Flower essences or treat people with them. I just thought my experience could add to the discussion because we did see a positive outcome and it did not appear to me to be related to the placebo effect. At least not in the way I had used it in the past. I put 20 drops in my daughter’s water bottle before school each day. She didn’t know they were there. If that is still placebo, then I underestimated its power. I had used it with my kids in many circumstances but always paired it with a strong suggestion. It’s impressive that you are saying it worked this well without the suggestion piece.

        I noticed you pointed out that another poster’s belief probably influenced their child. I think that is impressive in itself. It’s not only what we believe personally, but that we can even impact others with our beliefs. I find that fascinating. So if me putting those drops in her water was the causative factor that is fine, also. It was a positive result no matter if it was the essences itself, her belief, or my own. I am glad I tried them. It’s a safe and cheap intervention even if it is a placebo. I bought all three bottles for $7.50 each and they’ll probably last a year or longer. That’s not a bad investment for a placebo that appears to be working!

  • “I noticed you pointed out that another poster’s belief probably influenced their child. I think that is impressive in itself. It’s not only what we believe personally, but that we can even impact others with our beliefs. I find that fascinating.”

    Yes, it is fascinating, though it is well-established and even seems to apply to pet animals picking up subtle cues triggered by the expectations of their owners.

    This is one of several reasons why clinical trials are double blinded, in order to reduce the expectations of the healthcare professionals who administer the treatment – and assess its effects – biasing the results by unconsciously influencing the trial subjects.

  • I do believe in healing with alternative medicine. I have indigenous roots and remember my grandmother using plants and herbs as home remedies so that made me open to believe that mother nature can provide us with medicinal breakthroughs.

    • ok, you believe – what about evidence?

    • I do believe in healing with alternative medicine.

      Unfortunately more-or-less by definition that means that you believe in healing with something for which there is no evidence. As soon as there is evidence that healing actually takes place then the medicine stops being alternative.

      I have indigenous roots and remember my grandmother using plants and herbs as home remedies

      I’m afraid I can’t claim any similar descent from first settlers. Although I still live in the same part of Wiltshire where my family has been for at least 700 years; the tribes who lived here before the Romans invaded 2,000 years ago were either wiped out or driven into Wales, and going back still earlier to the Bronze Age, roughly 4,500 years ago, the then inhabitants of Britain were completely displaced (or massacred) by the Beaker People, and DNA evidence tells us that they left no descendants.

      Nevertheless, my grandmother was also very interested in the use of plants as remedies (I should point out that herbs are also plants) and amassed quite a collection of literature on the subject. I remember finding among her effects an original copy of Gerard’s Herbal, printed in 1597, which made fascinating reading; this important work is still available as a modern facsimile for about £20 from Amazon.

      that made me open to believe that mother nature can provide us with medicinal breakthroughs

      Indeed that is true. In the constant struggle not to be eaten many plants (and quite a few animals, not to mention fungi and bacteria) have evolved the ability to produce substances that are pharmacologically active in other species. Many of these form the basis of widely used drugs, such as aspirin, quinine, morphine and penicillin, to name a few. Even in my more specialised area of oncology I can immediately think of a number of chemotherapy agents derived from plants and fungi (etoposide, vinca alkaloids such as vindesine, vincristine and vinblastine, taxanes such as docetaxel and paclitaxel, bleomycin, daunorubicin…).

      There is an entire area of medical research, known as pharmacognosy, devoted to finding useful treatments by examining Nature. On the other hand traditional herbal medicine is rather hit-and-miss affair, relying as it does on relatively simple preparations made from the plants themselves, where the content may vary widely depending on how and when the plant was grown, how mature it is, how fresh it is etc. especially as in many cases too low a dose is ineffective and too high a dose is toxic. Also with traditional herbal preparations there is very little information available as to how they may interact with each other or with prescribed medicines, or how the effect varies between individuals, particularly those with liver or kidney impairment. Not to mention the fact that “traditional” medicines are often adulterated with commercially available pharmaceuticals, particularly those sourced from China.

      Going back a couple of hundred years, when most systems or medicine were based on strange theories and tradition rather than evidence, herbal remedies incorporating handed-down knowledge could provide a safer and more effective alternative. Of course medicine has moved on a bit since then.

      I should add that Bach Flower Remedies, which are the topic of this post, have very little to do with any form of traditional herbal medicine. For one thing they are a comparatively recent invention by Edward Bach in the 1930’s, and for another they are so diluted that on average only a molecule or two of the original flower is present in the bottle. The theory behind them is that the flower imparts a ‘vibrational energy’ to the alcohol it is dissolved in and which is reponsible for the healing action, but nobody has ever been able to demonstrate or measure this, nor provide convincing evidence that any healing takes place.

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