Pranic healing?
What on earth is that?
Whatever it is, it is big; there are more than half a million websites on it, and it seems to me that a lot of dosh is being made with pranic healing.
But what is it?
This website might be as good as any to explain:
Pranic Healing is a form of ancient energy medicine, which utilizes the inherent energy Prana (life force or energy) to balance, and promote the body’s energy and its processes. Prana is a Sanskrit word which actually means, the vital force that keeps us alive and healthy. Pranic healing is a holistic approach as it assumes a person in its complexity and does not separate the body and the mind.
It was developed by Grand Master ChoaKok Sui who founded the World Pranic Healing Foundation. He is a Manila-based businessman of Chinese origin – a spiritual teacher, writer and therapist of Pranic healing system.
According to ancient medicine, the body is composed of several physical elements including skin, bones, muscles, organs and so on which function with the help of Prana.The pranais present in the form of +ve and –ve ions. Pranic therapy or treatment involves the act of manipulating the energy (by experts) to restore the energy of the chakras in the body which is believed to treat the condition. Although it’s difficult to detect and measure life energy, its existence is undoubtedly proved…
Following health issues can be successfully treated with Pranic healing: Sleeping illness (lack of sleep) Mental illnesses including depression, anxiety etc. Stress Sprains and strains Body aches like neck pain, muscle pain, back pain etc. A recent trauma and related inflammation Improve psycho-physical aspects in athletes Improve memory Enhance energy level Treat headache Fight ulcers (intestinal) Heal respiratory illnesses, including sinusitis and asthma Skin diseases, including eczema Improves overall immunity Treat the various causes of infertility Aesthetic treatments such as Pranic face lift, bust lift, hip and tummy tuck etc.
Not only is pranic healing a true panacea, it also includes all the buzz-words any self-respecting charlatan wants to employ these days:
- energy medicine
- ancient wisdom
- life force
- holism
- complexity
- mind-body
- chakras
But the real beauty is, I think, that the existence of the energy – and by implication pranic healing – is undoubtedly proven!
Should we believe this statement?
Not without some evidence, I suggest.
Medline lists all of 4 articles on the subject of pranic healing – not too difficult a task to summarise them quickly here:
The first paper is entirely evidence-free, but we learn the following interesting thing: “When Pranic healing is applied the molecular structure of liquid and dense states of matter can be altered significantly to create positive outcomes, as revealed through research.”
The second article is not actually on pranic healing and contains no relevant information on it.
The third article is merely a promotional essay for nurses that fails to include anything resembling evidence.
The fourth paper finally is much of the same again.
So where is all this science supporting pranic healing? After all any treatment that can alter the molecular structure of matter must amount to a bit of a scientific sensation! Has the evidence perhaps been published in journals that are not Medline-listed? That I find difficult to imagine after realising that even the AUSTRALIAN JOURNAL OF HOLISTIC NURSING (one of the above 4 publications) is included in this database. And, in any case, such a scientific sensation deserves to be published in one of the leading science-journals!
Could it be that there is not science to pranic healing at all?
Could the whole thing be a hoax?
I sure hope one of my readers can point me to the science thus proving my suspicion to be unfounded!
202 Responses to Pranic healing: could it be a hoax?
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It seems that these pranic people are using at least some of the same principles as the homoeoquacks with their claims about the vital force (that is supposed to have “lost its way”).
I can’t help but think of Falun Gong. They talk about a wheel in your tummy, but their health claims are equally impressive. The Chinese government has outlawed them and that gets a lot of criticism from the Western hemisphere, but the way I see it, is that they are not nearly harsh enough.
As we now know, this is not harmless. Hansel and Gretel probably are. These people are pushing their victims into potentially life-threatening situations. At the very least, it should be seen as illegal practice of medicine, and quite possibly as premeditated murder. They may not know they are doing harm. That’s no excuse. They are practicing medicine, however revolting. They are supposed to know.
One thing is sure.Those who support these occult science are blindly following it. But those who are opposing this have not made any serious attempt to learn it. Those who seek science needs full proof and evidence for everything. There are lot of things we do not know and only a few things we know, We do not know even 1% of what is happening around us whether it is physical or non physical in nature, but even then we criticize everything.So when we disapprove something better say we do not know that instead of making expert opinion either to support or oppose.
How do you know it’s 1%?
I think you have completely misunderstood the scientific method.
Scientists are very happy to say “I don’t know” rather than making up an explanation. Indeed, “I don’t know” is the prelude to “let’s see if we can find out”. And there is no such thing as scientific proof. Scientists work by putting forward hypothesis which are consistent with the available evidence. They then try as hard as they can to find further evidence to disprove their own (and others’) hypotheses. Those that appear to be robust, and which make predictions which have not (so far) been falsified are accepted as good hypotheses and the best are given the status of theories. But all of them are considered the best we have so far, certainly not the final truth.
Hypotheses and theories which do not fit the evidence are discarded, however appealing they might be and however many people have devoted their careers to investigating them.
My wife did get cured of autoimmune disorder from ACL and IGM antibodies with pranic healing treatment spread over a period of 3 months. We had two miscarriages before that due to this disorder and the doctors could not provide any treatment. So I think pranic healing works. But it requires a high level of expertise, so not everyone who says they are pranic healers can actually heal… if you know what I mean.
Sir, I would ask only one thing from you. Can you explain what happened to her? How she got treated? What happened during this so-called session of ‘Pranic Healing’. I would like to understand. Can you scientifically prove what happened to her?
DO you believe in this because the doctors said they couldn’t do anything for her? Is that so? Had you ever tried to understand why the doctors couldn’t do anything? Then sir your whole argument is based on your sheer belief in Pranic healing. Pranic healing is a hoax. Can the healers actually show and teach you what they are preaching and practicing? Think about it.
If you do not know something, or you have not studied it, least you can do is to shut up!
talking to yourself?
Nailed it! Pranic Healing is Yoga, but I wonder why people have a negative view(filter) of it.
Pranic Healing is a method to improve wellness like yoga and meditation.
By using positive affirmations, practicing forgiveness and using visualization techniques to energize the body, it helps to reframe your thoughts and consequently reshape your behavior. Logically, if you are constantly getting trigged, lost or losing your mind, which is a constant rush of negative thoughts, with pranic healing methods you “reverse engineer” your thoughts to have a more positive thinking process, rather than being an untamed horse raging against everyone.
Anyway, as they say, don’t believe in it, but you can experiment with it and think by yourself without filters.
E.g. if you have negative thoughts, constantly sick, blaming everyone, carrying resentment and cultivating negativity life will be dark, if you communicate apathetically with people, hate everyone and never forgive anyone, you end up having depression, or a serious illness. To reverse the negative torrent of energy, there is no better way than simply thinking positive things.
Pranic Healing is not recruiting members, It is a tool for wellness, you can experiment to see if it’s good for you and if you don’t like it you can just move on and focus on something positive for you.
May love and peace be with you
Of course it’s a hoax, just as the inventors of Reiki and a plethora of others created deception-based health and religious empires. Here’s a highly curtailed list of prana-based charlatanism…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dantian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_medicine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etheric_body
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasmuheen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prana
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pranic_healing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qigong
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subtle_body
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga
Most of the alt-med empire would collapse if its prana-based keystone was removed. This is why proponents defend it using any means necessary, including: covert, overt, illegal, and even mind-numbing displays of fuckwittery.
Pete 628 – I know you said it was a curtailed list, but since you left out my favorite…I thought I’d add it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneuma
Thanks for that link, jm, I was unaware of Pneuma. I also learnt some interesting things from the “Pneuma (disambiguation)” page.
Pete 628 – You mean something interesting like: prana, qi, pneuma, ki, holy spirit, great spirit, (maybe even the great pumpkin…who knows), etc, etc, etc, are all different ways of saying “the field is the only reality”?
Careful – you’re a few clicks away from realizing that aether, ling, rei, etc, etc, etc are all taking about the same thing…
Yes, I know that they are different ways of saying the same thing. My particular interest is in learning more about which ancient philosopher supported each particular concept and why so many of these prescientific concepts are being increasingly espoused in the 21st Century despite them being known to be abject nonsense i.e. anti-science.
Careful — you’re a few clicks away from finally realizing that you keep committing a divide by zero error in your reasoning 🙂
Pete 628 – I never questioned that you knew they were saying the same thing. I was hoping you finally found out what the thing was they were saying (the whole field/reality thing).
Oh FFS, jm! I long ago found out that the whole field/reality thing doesn’t exist, which is why all alt-med [and everything else] based on it doesn’t work.
Pre-scientific abject nonsense exist only in the minds of those who are true believers — those who now have their head stuck so far up their ass that their main/only enjoyment is spitting venom at science- and evidence-based medicine.
Good luck with your research, Pete 628.
Alt-med empire? You are reading too many conspiracy theories.
Bless you with peace and love
AltMed grift is a QUARTER-TRILLION DOLLAR global industry.
Good old “Honest” Joe Mercola alone is personally worth a cool $100 MILLION.
“Empires” is being polite. Were this a just world, it’d be the biggest fraud conviction in all history.
Wiki is not reliable source
?
It is definitely several orders of magnitude more reliable than any web-page where the words in Pete’s list occur. And probably even more so than in 2014 when Pete wrote his comment.
Interesting use of what look like ‘scare quotes’ in the abstract though.
Hi please check the following link.
And a suggestion to all the scientific people being soooooo sure about pranic healing being not scientific or effective. Did YOU ever even care to try it properly with a competent healer.
Because it would be as ” unscientific ” to form such a strong, judgemental and and biased opinion as it would be to accept it blindly.
According to my understanding science means an open minded study of any phenominun rather than opinion based raving.
I request you to observe the language. It is not that anyone can site any research dis proving pranic healing.
The reason there is this lack of data proving it because there are so many people who have experienced it and they may not be people with scientific background that is why it seems that it is “unconditionally proven”.
The people here argue as if it is “unconditionally disproven”.
Try it and see.
Check this link which at least gives some facutul information about a scintific experiment.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YYWJuDnfPvQ
I have seen it tried it, researched it, tested it in clinical trials, published about it – WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT ME TO DO?
With Pranic Healing, there has to be faith, willingness, receptivity i.e., ”internal conductivity”.
Yours is only willingness to refute Pranic Healing, so what do you expect? You have dedicated a whole website to this, my goodness. The is a whole world out there including doctors who have benefitted. People who were open and receptive, and willing to heal. No, they didn’t know exactly how it worked, but it did, and does work even for animals. (Animals must be suckers, too, right?)
If it works for people, just let it go…why does it bother you so much? Conventional meds has its place, too, but how many people does it kill each year, this multi-billion dollar industry? What about scientific “evidence” that is a paid-for “manipulated result to dupe people to spend their money there?
How many endless side effects? How many needless and cruel tests run on animals when, in truth, the first human using that medication/ item, is the first guinea pig? How many docs perform needless surgeries, cutting off limbs etc, when they can advise other options, BUT so that they can buy that mansion, pay off their homes, or go on that world tour? How much do you pay to overnight in a hospital?
Its a big business, isn’t it?
A relative was related to this industry, it gets ugly if you know what kind of talk goes on behind the scenes…and how money is the motivating factor, and not the wellbeing of the patient, and doctors are people in whose hands you literally put your life in. (Of course, not all Doc’s are unethical, but just saying so you understand, neither are all Pranic healers, but which field is more sinister?)
Nobody ever died of Pranic Healing, my dear. And, yes, people who successfully practise do earn for a living, but not everyone pursues it full time or charges an arm and a leg. If there are those who live lavish lifestyles, let’s hope not by unscrupulous means, but people are allowed to enjoy the money they earn.
Besides, laws like karma also come into play, healing cannot be affected if something is your karma.
Anyways, wishing you happier times in the world. Be a beacon of joy and love… This site seems lacking it.
God bless.
Wait a minute, science cannot prove the existence of God either.
Hmm, anyways…
What clinical trials. What hospital or org. Allowed you to do that. 30 years of trials were conducted by the scientist and yogi master choa kok sui. Go to Manila and south India and see the impact his free work did. He taught for free, he gave the books free the cd’s free. All donations were given to various charities. MCKS came from a wealthy background and utilised his education and yogic practices to help the poor. It’s only here in the uk that it’s been turned into a material thing. I’ve done 2 levels of pranic healing and it’s nothing at all like reiki. At least buy a book and read about it. Pranic healers are humble people. Pranic healers are mainly women, who learn to help our loved ones. We need men who are not stay at home moms to turn it into a business, so as we can learn. There are women who became master healers. Master Nona was a Vatican nun, who’s experience of healing one helper of a severe wound, led her out of the Vatican and off to Canada to learn from master choa. Pranic healers study theology also. We are what we are. One with the spirit , one with matter One with God. But we are not the same. Listen to the song One by U2. Wise words. I have experienced pranic healing myself, reflexology and acupuncture. I love alternative or complimentary medicine. I’d rather have pranic healing for asthma than to take inhalers and have to suffer with side effects. A senior certified pranic healer conducts a completely different energy than a basic or advanced healer. Everything else is from the source, only if you have spiritually bothered to develop. God bless.
” I love alternative or complimentary medicine.”
in this case, you might consider learning how to spell it correctly
I haven’t seen you offering any compliments. Quite the reverse, in fact.
@J R S
A youtube video? Seriously?
” A youtube video? Seriously?”
Oh but Wiki is SO much more credible to recite from! Really? Um ok.
Who mentioned Wiki?
Its just a Multi Level Marketing Business! One should look at the luxurious properties they own form the monies they earn!
“There is no better way to take money from people than to make them willingly give it away !”
They target are the people who are weak form their mind, who need a belief to cling on to. They major focus is moulding the minds and perspectives of the very young crowd. And they in become the army to pass it on to the next level.
Worst thing is, people who are into it will never admit it, because the science of self reasoning doesn’t exist in them else they wouldn’t be a part of it in the first place!
Anyways, its not right or wrong! At the end of the day, people have the right to believe whatever they want in order to live on this planet so far as it doesn’t cause in any harm or destruction to others.
But yes, a business it is! and a lot can be learnt from its Business Model.
Most of the people hate sciences, lol
It is a method like Yoga using positive affirmations techniques to reframe your thoughts, so you can have thoughts that are good for you. The barrier is that anything that evokes God has a feeling of occultism or negative image in the head of a negative skeptical person, most of the research we can do through available documentation, but experimentation is a vital process for any scientist.
one of my close known lady have learnt this Technic and she is practicing in my house as she is visiting me for couple of weeks and staying with me
I did not know it earlier that she is practicing prani healing at my house too. but after her stay of one weak i start feeling very uncomfortable.i asked her i am feeling very uncomfortable an bad vibration as I never felt it before.are you doing any kind of prayer or anything. she said yes pranic healing, so I asked please stope it, and she did stop for few days and i felt better and again I saw her doing in front of my son room and later ine day my son got mad at me with no reason it happened couple of times.
so i believe its harmful to another person.
waitning for the reply
If your son doesn’t like what she is doing to him then YOU must stop it from happening to him. Don’t ask us to explain what is happening and don’t simply ask your “close known lady” to please stop what she is doing. Be a responsible parent by making 100% sure that ‘lady’ stays away from you and your son.
Your son didn’t get mad at you a couple of times for no reason, he got justifiably mad at you for your failure to look after his best interests in a responsible manner.
Yeah pranic healing is such BS. The worst thing about it is there are very few websites out there that actually shed light on this sham of a “practice.” Basically, they prey on weak minded people with personal issues and isolate them from their families like Scientology does.
From kids who can’t live up to their dad’s expectations to women who are past the age of childbirth, pranic healing societies offer this miraculous hope that it will all go away if you just pay a few hundred bucks for the intro course, then a few hundred more for next, then… Well you get the idea.
It’s really a refreshing change to see a site that actually analyzes this scam with a critical eye.
a.pranic healing school never does promise anything nor say it will go away..its best people don’t comment without understanding the subject..thanks
@poornima
Why do you think the “healing schools” not promise anything?
We understand perfectly well that there is nothing for them to promise because this particular type of philosophical belief cannot heal anything for real.
Can you tell us why we should believe otherwise and what it is you think we do not understand?
You guys seem to be paid by the pharma biggies!
Without even knowing what ur talking about u seem to criticize the sole basis of each living particle !
Before u dumbos were even born the system existed several thousand years ago…acupuncture , tcm, herbology,al are based on ancient secrets ..
bravo! two fallacies in one short comment: conspiracy + appeal to tradition
If the ancient secrets were so wonderful…
…how come the ‘ancients’ had an average life span less than 40 years (‘ancients defined as 2000 years ago)?
…how come the ‘ancients’ often starved to death when their crops failed or during severe droughts?
…how come the ‘ancients’ didn’t know about electricity, nuclear power, printing or internal combustion engines, all of which we depend on daily for our existence?
I could go on, but I think I’ll stay a dumbo and vote for 21st-century ‘secrets’: they seem to offer so many more advantages!
Wow! A conspiracy theorist. Who’d have thought it?
These healers only make big claims, such as treating cancer, diabetes etc …. They are good psychologists though! They know that people with incurable diseases are desperate and would believe them. Have you ever seen they claim treating routine diseases?! NO! Because you can get the antibiotics for a few bucks!
Another claim they make, is that these stuff are scientifically proven! Whereas, there is NO peer reviewed scientific literature published in recognized medical/scientific journals about PH. I will be happy to see one!
The dark side of PH is that its very easy way of making big money.
I feel sorry for desperate cancer patients or individuals with neuropsychological disorders … ;(
First time when Steam engine started. People ran away. Cows stopped to Milk. There was a great resistance. Today everyone believe steam engine was just a beginning and there was much more to be added. 100 Years back we new telegraph and and wired phones we never thought technology like Mobile phones will come up.
Imagine 100 years back we had Mobile phones and Petrol Cars. What would happen. Some people would be amazed and some will call is which craft or may be more.
Pranic healing is Energy Medicine. Which in another 100-500 Years shall change the treatments and Medicines. It is suggested that unless the science is studied in class room one should not just criticise or declare it bogus. Better take a class it is some 100 – 300 Dollars then react on it.
the first time someone formulated a truly stupid idea, people laughed – and today? they are still laughing!
Well would you think quantum pyhsics and ideas such as consciousnessis affecting matter and outcomes are truly stupid ideas as well?
Ideas are not stupid. Having an idea, then believing in it without properly testing it, is stupid. Anyone who thinks that quantum mechanics lends support to the idea that consciousness is affecting matter, doesn’t understand: quantum mechanics; consciousness; matter; science in general; and statistics.
You mean derided and mocked with a shared sense of requirement for social and collegial validation? Let me add a few more pertinent examples, Galileo, Semmelweis, Van Leeuwenhoek.. All men with ideas that you would now call undisputedly scientific who were either denounced as heretical, ridiculed or ostracized by their contemporaries into an insane asylum because they dared to report their findings contrary to the status quo of the day.. The placebo affect has only recently been shown to have as great or greater affect than the actual biochemistry incited by opioid pain killers (because they use the same neurological pathways) despite the fact that it has been observed and dismissed for a long time by the willful ignorance of Western medicine.. Is this not evidence of the power of harnessing the mind and if pranic belief through direct experience is a way to do that, where is the harm? I have struggled with a debilitating vagus nerve and stomach issue ever since the establishment you put so much faith in butchered my oesophageal sphincter during a fundoplication.. Apart from one drug (that is very broad spectrum and not at all understood in its biological action), the only true relief I have from this condition is natural medicine and pranayama breathing practice BECAUSE I HAVE ACTUALLY TRIED EVERY MEDICAL AVENUE AVAILABLE MYSELF.. Consider that your own education and subsequent hubris is being used against you to make you a prosecutor of the relatively harmless micro while the real macro battle is lost to big pharma and profiteering at international scale.. While some people will always be willing to exploit suffering, the small homeopathic quacks, as you call them, are most often doing far less harm than the big industry doing it’s best to lurk in the shadows.. I would cite the recent class action lawsuits being filed in the US, particularly with respect to fentanyl overprescription conducted by GPs with the same fundamental ideology as you – to trust in science that is being skewed and twisted such that education is now indoctrination into ever narrowing perspectives. I have a science degree and have read enough papers to find contradictions even when the Scientific Method is supposedly strictly adhered to.. It is the nature of the point of observation to have inherent and inescapable bias when it is part of the system it is trying to observe.. The end results are what matter to the patients who suffer and your vocal push will always be distorted by the media (ie: Prince Charles debate) both as a smoke screen and to keep your truly valid ideas off center stage.. Stop being a willing pawn and broaden your mind or be left behind and know that your legacy will be amongst what is laughed at in the next century
It was not enough for you to stick to the placebo effect or “natural medicine”, huh? Then we’d talk…
You had to bring the big pharma gambit into the discussion… Your health problem has not made you a conspiracy theorist, they rarely do… You were one all along.
What conspiracy? It’s happening and you’re just afraid to admit that it’s most likely true despite all the evidence you choose not to see because ignorance and lies are more comfortable.. Sadly, just another example of willful ignorance.. Why live in a prison made of your own conviction that strangers with billions of dollars to win or lose actually care about you though? And why can’t we talk if your observations of the world vary from mine? It’d be pretty boring and unproductive if we all thought the same way.. Please tell me your thoughts on the Placebo affect as I have been reading similar studies to this http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.1004.6194 and this http://scholar.google.com.au/scholar_url?url=https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Daniel_Moerman/publication/11462443_Deconstructing_the_Placebo_Effect_and_Finding_the_Meaning_Response/links/09e4150b600debe4d8000000.pdf&hl=en&sa=X&scisig=AAGBfm06wi_TALwmDiZSW_ObGzq5lzg52A&nossl=1&oi=scholarr&ved=0ahUKEwi105WZ8OPYAhWIVZQKHcsvCRQQgAMIJCgAMAA for some years? It’s just a couple of examples, but they point to more going on both at a biochemical level and at the mental/psychological axis with physiological response and states.. On another note, why is it not possible that what we perceive as the nervous system is not differently (and in your view rudimentarily I suppose?) represented in prana or chakras or Qi energy practices that are thousands of years old and have not only survived for some reason but also appear across different cultures with strikingly similar ideas as the end point of countless generations of thought and observation and debate? And why can Wim Hof intentionally and successfully mobilise his immune system under controlled scientific conditions with breathing techniques derived from an again similar Tibetan practice that terms the energy Kundalini? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4034215/ I look forward to your counterpoints 🙂 and by the way, what is your background and experience if I may ask?
@ST
The difference is that Galileo, Semmelweis and Van Leeuwenhoek have been consistently proven right. Pranic healing has. The purported inherent effect of Placebo postulated in early research has been increasingly refuted.
So this study from 2015 would have me believe otherwise https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4388042/ The entire protocol is sound and so are the results from what I can tell.. Are you sure you’re not just seeing refutation of the placebo effect in disease etiologies that we firmly believe are untreatable without physical intervention because they have only ever been discovered by and viewed through the lens of Western medicine? I can also personally attest that pain and nausea are very real symptoms, often related to very real inflammation or aggravation and yet they can clearly be mitigated by placebo through thought/expectation/belief – define it as you will? Thoughts?
And Semmelweis as well as most of these other guys were only recognised posthumously http://www.medicaldaily.com/mad-scientist-6-scientists-who-were-dismissed-crazy-only-be-proven-right-years-later-362010 Seems in this day and age we might’ve learned that it’s quicker to investigate with the same fervour that we deny because of what we think we know in the here and now.. It’s good to have healthy skepticism, but perhaps not healthy denial don’t you think?
please read up about fallacious thinking, e. g. here: https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/216/Galileo-Fallacy
@Edzard As you seem to be attempting to remove reply links to this thread I address you here instead.. Is that really all you’ve got in response? A link to a few paragraphs on how any argument that references past examples we might learn from can be used to undiscerningly support garbage as well.. Might I remind you that you hail from an institution that was having people lobotomised less than a century ago and anyone who thought there might be a finer tuned method or approach was quite possibly sidelined with the exact same sort of counter argument you propose? Forget the exceptions and look at science’s propensity to rewrite itself over and over as new facts come to light.. We have studied only a small percentage of the biome of our own planet’s oceans and you think there are not possibilities we don’t even yet have a framework for that could exist? If I had not attempted to backup the rest of my queries with literature you might have had a straw to grasp at but as it stands I fail to see the merit of your point of view on this subject at all and you’re doing nothing to assuage that
“As you seem to be attempting to remove reply links to this thread I address you here instead..”
wrong!
” Is that really all you’ve got in response? ”
yes, your comment does not merit more.
ST said:
I’m sure the good professor won’t mind me saying that he wouldn’t have the slightest idea how to remove reply links even if he wanted to.
To keep conversations manageable, threaded (nested) comments are set to five levels: your comments here are on the fifth level down (you can count them yourself), so there are no reply buttons. No need to invoke any conspiracies or malicious intent.
I see.. I do apologise for the misunderstanding, every other nest appeared to have links.. This is the first time I have ever felt strongly enough to post on a forum and have certainly gotten a little overzealous without a cogent response to chew on.. I wonder if you can all see your own inherent biases too? My distrust of any system of thought is well founded and in fact balances my outlook where others are happily backing the fallacy of any authority they wish to feel safe under.. I admit it was intended to get a rise out of Edzard but this feels a lot more like stonewalling than lively debate between different perspectives.. Why are you so afraid to specifically defend your ideals?
Also, I did read up on logical fallacies even though I understood your suggestion to be quite derivative and derisive.. Circular reasoning would be more accurate and there is actually nothing wrong with it if the conclusions and premises set out have any basis in real measurement.. Actually sounds exactly like what drives your arguments too to be honest https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning Now please feel free to read and respond to any of the links I posted as I have
PRANIC HEALING IS SAME AS BLACK MAGIC OR VOODOO….THERE ARE LOT OF HEALERS USING NEGATIVE INTENTIONS TO GET EVEN WITH OTHERS…NO LAW OF KARMA…JUST BLACK MAGIC IS WORKING MODEL…PROJECTING EVIL INTENTIONS USING COLORS HAS BEEN USED BEFORE IN VOODOO…THIS IS SCAM…MASTER CHOA KOK ONLY TAUGHT PEOPLE, HOW TO MAKE MONEY OUT OF GULLIBLE PEOPLE…IT IS VERY SERIOUS ISSUE BECAUSE OF ITS MISUSE.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/338771037_Pranic_Healing_as_a_Complimentary_Therapy_in_Stage-4_Metastatic_Cancer-A_Case_Study
A study on effect of pranic healing in cancer.
You’d think they’d know how to spell “complementary” if it’s so good.
Think research paper downloadable from the link below might be of interest !
https://www.cihs.edu/whatsnew/Non-Touch%20Energy%20Healing_Koji%20Tsuchiya_ISSSEEM-v20n2.pdf
Quink said:
It certainly provides some amusement!
But why do you believe it might be of interest?
here a link that might help http://www.equilibrium-e3.com/images/PDF/Jones%20Pranic%20Healing%20Research.pdf
@Martin
“here a link that might help”, It certainly helped get my day off to a good laugh. Martin, this short account contains no experimental detail that would allow anyone else to replicate the experiment, and no indication of the types of blinding that should be applied, even to petri dishes of HeLa cells receiving karmic healing, to provide the extraordinary evidence needed to support such an extraordinary claim. It reads like the pseudo-experiments done by people who claim to possess psychic powers: the powers vanish as soon as decent controls are put in to prevent humbug.
“Our study, the details of which will be published shortly in the scientific literature…”. Please refer us to the published version of this ridiculous, 10-years-old piece of nonsense. It must surely have been peer-reviewed and published in the scientific literature by now.
My God you are so negative. You are beginning to disgust me.
There is no scientific reasoning that hasn’t been refuted that explains exactly the way a bicycle works (check if you don’t believe) does this mean we can’t ride bikes… No. There are things in this world we are as yet to prove scientifically.. Aswell as things that haven’t even been discovered yet, that may help us immeasurably.. The great minds of the world were laughed at for suggesting the world was round yet today it’s popular belief and you’d be crazy to say otherwise.. As someone who has never had evolvement in pranic healing (although it has been suggested I try for a certain ailment) , I have no judgement.. All I can say for certain is, believe in what exists in your own reality. Suggesting someone’s lifes work is ‘BS’ without undergoing extensive therapies and testing based on what it does for you is ludicrous.. Belief and faith subconsciously can have great affects on our lives.. To cast judgement based on how their belief doesn’t support yours, is detrimental to society. This is what has caused this world to endure countless wars and the deaths of millions of our own species.. Remember that every prescription our traditional medicinal doctors give us is detrimental to our liver and with a list of side effects as long as your arm, yet we don’t question it because they have two letters before there name..
I don’t need to check, I know how a bicycle works.
Absolutely right!
You’re wrong.
A bicycle works by very simple, easily understood physical principles. You can find this information quite easily.
I’ve read all the comments even the b.s … First I want to question your logical way of proof… Since I’m Greek I have learn from the Greek philosophers to question and to quest in order to find proofs… solid data that will give me the scientific result. I practice Pranic Healing a few months now and the only results I saw was good.
First of all I would like to tell you that First the Greek philosophers talked about this energy in Greek called Pneuma.
Then I would like to tell you than we can not practice Pranic Healing without having the permission to do it…. so it is so far from truth that what I read before for someone feeling bad because a guest in his house was practicing Pranic Healing.
Ultimately I also want to state that this practice is not a religion this is why before every practice we pray to our God, to Saints, to all of the angels and to master Choa Kok Sui for this beautiful gift.
I you want to see crearly on the issue you have to undestand who is going to loss a big amount of money if everyone in this planet learns to heal the members of his family without paying money to medicine. Nevertheless P.H isn ‘t panakeia to everything and isn’t here to take the place of classic medicine but to complement it.
There is a video on youtube with a Hospital in California in which over 100 doctors learn how to practice the Pranic Healing in order to reduse the healing time after surgeries… and save money…
Εdzard… Great for you! Stay on your bike and leave the ferrari for the others.
P.s. sorry for my bad English….
I prefer a bike that works to a Ferrari that has no engine!
“prana: (Alternative Belief Systems) (in Oriental medicine, martial arts, etc) cosmic energy believed to come from the sun and connecting the elements of the universe [from Sanskrit, literally: life-force].” — TheFreeDictionary.
“Pranic healing: The word pranic stems from the Sanskrit word ‘prana’ meaning ‘vital life force’ which is an ancient science and art of healing that utilizes prana or ki energy to heal the whole physical body.” — Collins Free Online Dictionary.
“Pranic healing is a pseudoscientific alternative medicine that claims to utilise ‘prana,’ or ‘life energy’, to heal the body. ‘Prana’ is the Sanskrit word for qi. It also uses chakras and acupuncture meridians. Deepak Chopra is quite a fan.” — RationalWiki.
See also:
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Pranic
Mina said:
Ah. I see your problem.
If it’s a ‘gift’ from a god and/or other supernatural entities, why is it not a religion?
It’s not a religion because this thing allow you to have your own beleifs….and follow your own religion. In this point I want to say that I have taken the basic course, I’m not advanced in this and I don’t intent to make money of it. I just want a tool for my life…. to help the family members and my pets and plants… and as far it works.
Thank you Mina. Yes I am a doctor myself and have just started practicing Pranic Healing …. And it is simply just amazing …….Thanks to Master Chow Kok Sui ……. Thank you for making me a better instrument to help my patients .
@Parames
Doctor of what???
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pranic_healing
It seems that you have not yet learnt the vital difference between becoming a better instrument, and becoming a complete and utter tool.
PRANIC HEALING IS BEING MISUSED WIDELY…PROJECTING ENERGY WITH COLORS ON SO CALLED CHAKRAS…WILL GIVE YOU SAME RESULTS IF YOU JUST SIT AND THINK ABOUT SOMEBODY….IT IS ALL THOUGHTS…YOU DONT HAVE TO PAY HUNDRED OF DOLLARS TO LEARN THIS SCAM…NOWADAYS EVEN VOODOO DOCTORS ARE DOING SAME THING BY PROJECTING THOUGHTS AND PLAYING WITH BLOOD AND CEREMONIES…THIS IS AGE OLD BLACK MAGIC TRICKS…IT IS ALL A MAGIC ACT…MEDICAL SCIENCE IS THE ONLY ANSWER IN THIS AGE AND BEYOND…JUST WHEN OUT OF THOUSAND CASES ONE CASE GOES BAD….THEN THESE SO CALLED ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE HEALERS STAND UP AND ACT AS HEROS TO SAVE HUMANITY…JUST OPPORTUNISTIC CON PEOPLE THAT PREY ON WEAK MINDED PATIENTS.
People tend to be aggresive or afraid of the things that they don’t comprehend… They either laught at them… or condemn them. If we look back at history we’ll see that people with great innovative ideas were considered lunatic at that time…
Do you want to remind you that Eratosthenes the Greek Astronomer discovered that earth was round more than 2000 years ago (the same Pythagoras and Parmenides) … and this knowledge just rediscovered in medieval times… Not to mention how people reacted in these “crazy” ideas…
Peoples mind must be like a parachute: OPEN … otherwise we are condemned to fall…
I have a better quote for you; it’s from Carl Sagan:
: “It seems to me what is called for is an exquisite balance between two conflicting needs: the most skeptical scrutiny of all hypotheses that are served up to us and at the same time a great openness to new ideas. Obviously those two modes of thought are in some tension. But if you are able to exercise only one of these modes, whichever one it is, you’re in deep trouble. If you are only skeptical, then no new ideas make it through to you. You never learn anything new. You become a crotchety old person convinced that nonsense is ruling the world. (There is, of course, much data to support you.) But every now and then, maybe once in a hundred cases, a new idea turns out to be on the mark, valid and wonderful. If you are too much in the habit of being skeptical about everything, you are going to miss or resent it, and either way you will be standing in the way of understanding and progress. On the other hand, if you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an ounce of skeptical sense in you, then you cannot distinguish the useful as from the worthless ones.”
I tottaly agree! This is why ancient Greeks were saying “Metron Ariston”…
I at first was also skeptical until I had someone to practice on me…. and it worked! I don’t know how since when you are skeptical placebo effect doesn’t work… but… it worked!
On the other hand we can see miracles happening around us everyday…. People with cancer getting cured… and no one can explain this… (ok it’s God’s hand but what if God gave us the way for selfcuring?)
P.H just boosts the bioenergy field so it can help you to cure yourlelf… Once you try it and see that it works, you know that everyone can cure himself on his own . It has’t to do with placebo effect since pets and plants don’t have beliefs!
And it is amazing what you can do with just the basic on P.H.
It is fantastic to have such a tool in your hands. Most of the people that I know here in Greece they use it not to make money of it but just to help family and friends… and it helps!
and it helps!
pity that there is no evidence for this claim!!!
Τhe evidence provided only from the people they tryed it. 🙂
Did you try it?
@Mina
Sadly, people saying they tried it does not constitute evidence. People fool themselves all the time. Science is a tool for avoiding people fooling themselves, and there are scientific methods for testing things like pranic healing to see if they really ‘work’. That includes pre-defining what constitutes ‘working’ — for what conditions, in what circumstances, with what degree of success and how often. Your testimonials fall on deaf ears here.
“I don’t know how since when you are skeptical placebo effect doesn’t work”
Please provide evidence of your claim because it contradicts the scientific findings that the placebo reaction, and especially the nocebo reaction, frequently result even when the person is aware that it is just a placebo or just a nocebo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocebo
http://skepdic.com/placebo.html
http://skepdic.com/nocebo.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-fulfilling_prophecy
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing!
Give him his due, Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the Earth, as well as the angle of tilt, with a fair degree of accuracy. This knowledge wasn’t “rediscovered” but oppressed by the believers in the same deity you cite below.
It is said that Science had just scraped the tip of the Truth Iceberg. I have been studying different energy modalities here and visited Choa Kok Sui’s center here in the Philippines. I wanted to test it out for myself. I know my experience would not be acceptable to some of you, still, for the benefit of discussion, allow me to recount my findings so far. I’ve interviewed some of the clients here who go to the center every Thursday, which is a free healing day btw. So at least we know, it’s not all “business”. PH is meant to COMPLIMENT therapies, and not replace it. Also, if you live in the US, please interview Eric B.Robins, M.D., a certified Board Urologist in LA who now practices PH to augment his medication to the patients. He also wrote a foreword in Sui’s first book. Mayhaps an interview with a man of science would help in your search for truth (and not judgement of the whole thing I hope).
I can also provide you a list of names of the people here who underwent PH and attest to its credibility. I have met a few who were just dragged there by relatives, and not only skeptics, but non-believers. When I talked to the 2 of them (one is hypochondriac amongst other stuff that he had), they just could not believe they made progress. It took long, not at once; one had to do it for almost a year and a half due to deep seated psychological issues.
So my hypothesis so far, it proves a worthy subject for science to invest their investigation on since there is a great percentile of success rate. I know I’ve seen a link wherein science has a take on this but I also want to look for books so as to have peer related reviews. It’s hard to be reliable solely on the net. So far I have found a medical book that includes PH in it which is why I suggested you look for the doctor mentioned above. I am sure he is not the only doctor who uses this to augment his/her therapies.
Let us keep an open mind. And instead of being condescending (as showcased by the manner of some comments here), why not open ourselves to the reality that not everything yet is touched or studied extensively by Science. Our reality is much complicated than it seems. It is not made up of collected website links posted as answers, nor quotes made by dead greats. If you really are dogged to prove it as a sham, then I cordially invite you to come to our country and investigate not only PH, but also different unexplained healing modalities here backed up by documentation (both written and videoed). What do you know, our concerted effort to create a study might just be the key to answer this phenomenon. .. we might be featured in Nat Geo or Discovery or somethin LOL
@Peach
Thank you for so beautifully demonstrating what is wrong with well-motivated but unthinking people ‘investigating’ matters ‘scientifically’. Your “hypothesis so far” is “it [PH] proves a worthy subject for science to invest their investigation on since there is a great percentile of success rate.” That’s not a hypothesis.
Your position seems to be based on “a list of names of the people here who underwent PH and attest to its credibility.” That’s anecdote/testimony. The same applies to astrology, religions, UFOs, psychokinesis, contacts with spirits of dead people and tooth fairies: long lists of names of people who attest to their credibility can be drawn up, but only in the case of tooth fairies is there a base in hard, reproducible evidence for their possible reality. Sadly, even for tooth fairies, their possible existence is subject to other interpretations. Experimenters need in particular to keep adults away from a child’s pillow where a tooth has been placed in order to verify that exchange of tooth for cash cannot be explained by a simpler mechanism than invoking a fairy.
You are right about one thing. “It’s hard to be reliable solely on the net.” But your devotion to ‘books’ is also misplaced. Books are authored by people with a point of view; they are not by any stretch of the imagination the best repository for scientific evidence. That honour goes to ‘nominally’ peer-reviewed journals. You seem to be unfamiliar with the way science is formally communicated. It is not through interviews and books but via reports describing experiments designed (ideally) to disprove a specific hypothesis. These are published and archived in thousands of more or less subject-specialized periodicals. Nat Geo and Discovery are not publications of this type.
Please try to come up with a specific hypothesis. Perhaps you think pranic healing works well in a particular condition. If so, pre-define what constitutes ‘working’. Then try to design adequately controlled tests that can disprove your hypothesis. Science really is not the simple matter of “studying different energy modalities here and visited Choa Kok Sui’s center here in the Philippines. I wanted to test it out for myself.”
The wall definetely are more openminded than some people in here…
You spent a lot of money everyday in useless things why all of you don’t spent money to have a pranic healing session so you can have YOUR OWN oppinion instead of scientific crap?
Maybe you are afraid to prove yourself wrong about this… this is what I think…
End of story…
If you lived in medeival you’d probably killing scientists….
LOL! I see you understand nothing about science.
But you say you’re “more openminded than some people in here”. What would persuade you to change your mind about pranic healing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-BgQJ-OmBs
Τhanks God some doctors in this Californian hospital are openminded enough to practise Pranic healing along with the classical medicine!!
It’s odd that the urologist mentioned in the (uncritical) news item, Dr Eric Robins, in his listing in HealthyGrades, makes no mention of his pranic powers of healing, doesn’t list it as one of his specialities, doesn’t offer it as a treatment and has no publications to his name, telling the world of his successes…
Robins has his own listing as an American Loon:
http://americanloons.blogspot.ca/2013/05/576-stephen-co-eric-robins.html
Mr. Henness: I find this disclaimer on Robins’s website revealing:
DISCLAIMER:
While Dr. Robins is a licensed physician in the State of California, he only offers his services as a stress management, health and wellness educator through this website. Dr. Robins does not provide any medical diagnosis or treatments and the services he offers on this website are not part of his medical practice.
In other words, it’s all “nudge nudge wink wink”: we don’t talk about this pranic nonsense inside the office where I practice “real” medicine. I only do this idiotic hand waving behind closed doors.
The first rule of pranic healing is: we don’t talk about pranic healing.
Τhe odd thing would be the opposite…
With all this medical marketing…. Imagine what would happened to all these companies how many money would loose if the the people could heal themselves without medicine…. and then imagine the pressure on the doctors who would choose to give a chance to P.H…
@ Mina on Sunday 25 September 2016 at 18:45
‘Imagine what would happened to all these companies how many money would loose if the the people could heal themselves without medicine”
If/when you get a cancer, please use Pranic Healing and don’t be a burden on the medical/hospital system. If you are so sure, you should bet your life on it.
Mine
LOL! Please come back when you’ve managed to find even a jot of good evidence pranic ‘healing’ has any effect.
If you want to have a clue about what good evidence actually is, try reading more of the posts on this blog.
Your answer made me feel sick.
perhaps even in need of some pranic healing?
@ Peach on Thursday 22 September 2016 at 21:20
“It is said that Science had just scraped the tip of the Truth Iceberg.
By whom is it said? Science is not a proper noun, it is an activity to find the best answer with the best evidence. What is the, or a, “Truth Iceberg”?
“I have been studying different energy modalities ”
What are “energy modalities”?
“I wanted to test it out for myself.”
With properly designed studies to exclude all of the human biases which pollute so many studies and make them worthless?
That is only two lines into your post and there are more questions than answers.
“I can also provide you a list of names of the people here who underwent PH and attest to its credibility.”
Please do? Do these people understand placebo effect?
Why is it you accept the scientific process to fly, communicate, eat, drive, reproduce (or not), use lights and power, but not medicine?
(I posted a version of this with a link that went into moderation, so I’m reposting without the link. Dr. Ernst, please delete the original in moderation. Thank you.)
Television news reports are not science. Especially from credulous, non-science-trained pretty talking heads.
Clueless reporters have also done stories promoting homeopathy, Gerson “therapy” and Stan Burzynski.
Also, I wouldn’t trust that urologist in the video to tell me the temperature outside. He’s a total quack who buys into all kinds of nonsense:
Dr. Eric Robins, MD, is an internationally renowned health expert in Mind-Body Medicine, featured in the NY Times best selling series “The Tapping Solution”, and in “Soul Medicine: Awakening Your Inner Blueprint for Abundant Health and Energy.” He is the author of the foreword to numerous books including “The Tapping Solution for Pain Relief,” “Tap Into Balance”, “The Secret Language of Feelings,” “Life is the Perfect System,” “Superbrain Yoga,” and “Miracles Through Pranic Healing. “He is co-author of the highly acclaimed book “Your Hands Can Heal You,” and a contributing author to both Dr. David Berceli’s book, “Shake It Off Naturally,” and Dr. Dawson Church’s “The Heart of Healing.”
Dr. Robins is a board-certified urologist and surgeon in private practice and affiliated with a major hospital in Los Angeles. He received his MD degree from Baylor College of Medicine in 1989 and his BA in Biology from the University of Texas in Austin. Dr. Robins completed his training in surgery and urology at LA County-USC Medical Center. He is also certified in a multitude of the most cutting edge healing modalities available today, including as a Level 2 TRE Provider, NLP practitioner, certified clinical hypnotherapist, advanced Pranic Healing practitioner, and in a number of Meridian Tapping modalities such as EFT and others.
Ugh. If you need any more evidence that Dr. Robins is not credible, none other than the King of Quackery Dr. Oz has endorsed him:
“Dr. Robins has helped transform Eastern healing traditions into digestible food for thought for the Western mind. This allows people from all walks of life to reengage in these fascinating techniques.”
– Dr. Oz, The Dr. Oz Show
Of course Oz has invited reiki masters in his operating room and is married to a reiki salesperson.
And you are credible???
A man who doesn’t try P.H to fight it so strongly?
How come?
Is this make sense?
Not to me…!
Τry to convince his patients who recovered so grate about his “garbage”
Not me! Thanks God I have a personal opinion because I have tried it!
I have tried standing in a bowl of water and shouting “wacky-wacky-woo” for 5 minutes. It sure helped my lower back pain.
Mina said:
What patients?
Everything cannot be explained.. Science actually contradicts its own research many times I have seen… Therefore I believe to think science is the only answer is a big mistake…i have been a skeptic of energy healing myself.. But I have seen my mother’s cyst completely cured which actually needed an operation and my granny’s heart blockage cured too through Pranic healing.. Therefore I am slowly moving towards belief in it.. I feel the people here are very judgemental and aggressive in their views.. Why do you care about scientifically proving it so much? I don’t want scientific proofs.. I don’t believe in science with such fanatiscm.. All I want is to get benefitted in my own life.. So try it if you want to benefit from it and stop condemning it if you are happy with your present medical options
“… Why do you care about scientifically proving it so much? I don’t want scientific proofs..”
I real medicine, this is a necessary precondition to protect patients from charlatans.
I don’t believe in medicine much.. There are too many side effects.. Also They keep saying one thing in one research and then contradicting it in another future research.. You are trying to question everything.. But You don’t know that we humans are limited in our I understanding of the world.. There are many things which can’t be experienced with our limited senses.. I understand that and I am looking to explore these things further.. I am not calling something false just because I don’t understand it yet.. But you are.. This so called “real medicine” is filled with people trying to just make money.. I don’t have faith in it either.. It’s full of “charlatans” as well.. I would not like to argue with you about anything coz it’s a waste of my valuable energy.. I have totally understood your limited sensibility.. So feel free to not believe in healing and keep wasting your time writing these blogs.. I am not a big fan of blogs bcoz it’s filled with misleading information and biased and judgemental views.. Thank you.. Stay healthy
“There are many things which can’t be experienced with our limited senses..”
that seems particularly true in your case!
“.. I am not calling something false just because I don’t understand it yet.. ”
nobody does. but I doubt treatments which show no effects in properly controlled clinical trials – regardless of whether I understand their mode of action.
So please continue doubting..
Only You are missing out on great wisdom and it’s benefits and a lot of other good Stuff coz of lack of faith and too much dependence on science..attend the course if you want to understand Pranic healing and the true purpose of your life.. Don’t judge from outside.. May God bless you!
I prefer to miss out on your ‘GREAT WISDOM’ and behave instead responsibly by insisting on reasonable evidence for ALL therapeutic claims for ALL medical interventions.
Okay.. Be happy.. You don’t know what I am talking about and I choose not to explain either coz it’s futile.. Stay happy in your “purely scientific world”.. I feel sorry for people like you.. but I guess your time has not come for spiritual growth..you have a super logical brain.. Therefore your brain will never accept anything else.. I am logical too… But after experiencing personal health cure I have become more open to such things.. And I think it works.. Still discovering more of it.. May God bless you!
no, you have given us ample reason to assume that you are neither logical, rational or bright!
May God bless you!
same to you!
Neha said:
He’s not the only one who doesn’t know what you’re talking about here…
Oh and one more thing.. The guy who wrote this article.. Edzar.. His replies clearly show he is not really looking for any evidence.. He has totally formed an opinion against Pranic healing and is just looking for ways to condemn it.. Such strong fanatiscm does not show a receptive mind.. Therefore anything told to him in favor of Pranic healing will only be refuted by him and the other anti people with full vigour.. They are just looking to win the argument and not actual evidence
which evidence are you talking about?
You are not looking for evidence to support Pranic healing but just looking to refute it and win your argument.. The words and tone of your replies to all the queries shows that… One important thing is to be receptive to healing for it to work.. Remember that
I will!
but please show me the evidence you are non-stop talking about!
This is interesting debate. Edzard can you prove to me from where your thoughts are coming from. Prove that you are not being influenced by whatever. Prove that you have feelings. Prove that you love your children. Prove that you feel pain when your child dies. Thank you
are you feeling ok?
your demand that I ‘prove’ anything to you sounds odd [which proves, I think, that I have feelings].
No way. You been asking for evidence and same am I. Give your evidence please. Thank you.
These so-called “scientific”-minded buzzards have already made up their minds. When they say they have tried or studied pranic healing they’re either lying or they only skim the surface with the intention to criticize and condemn. No, they do not have the public’s best interest in mind. Because if they do, they would consider this one thing : the possibility that every ordinary people would be able to help themselves and others without being dependent on traditional western medicine with its serious failures and (pharmaceutical) dangers. The amount of money spent in basic pranic healing course is a lifetime investment for one’s own and family health.
a few more sites illustrating the silliness of pranic healing:
http://www.instituteforinnerstudies.com.ph/
http://www.pranichealingwa.com.au/pranic-healing/courses/categoryevents/3-pranic-psychotherapy
https://www.regonline.com.au/registration/Checkin.aspx?EventId=1968737
http://www.pranichealingwa.com.au/pranic-healing/courses/details/59-basic-pranic-healing-course-east-fremantle
I have taken all their courses including the spiritual ones. It’s all a hoax. The teachers only care about money. I was told by an instructor that they are told to put a lie and fear in their marketing so that people take the higher classes. In all the events that I have attended, they only care and glorify people with money and power. The instructors are wackos too. Most of them are stupid. They prey on people with problems and make millions. Stay away from them!!!
Why did you take ALL their courses? In fact how many? What prompted you after paying for the first course to continue on to subsequent courses?
What a crap. You must be at least an idiot to give away so much money for something that can see from the first course if its a lie… You are not a pranic healer… !
Please list allthe courses and in the order that you took them
Seriously, all the courses? Who was the teacher? It takes years to develop. I believe teachers are concentrating on teaching more than healing these days. Big money. Ive taken two courses myself and feel that I don’t need to do all the courses. I’m able to do what I need to do with just advanced pranic healing. Arhatic yoga is a spiritual practice. It’s basically the prayer of st Francis contemplated on. No need yo go arhatic yoga.
Hi Bernice
Are you aware of the Advertising Standards Authority’s rules on listing medical conditions in advertising? For example, this page on your website lists:
Their relevant guidance include:
Therapies and references to Medical Conditions
Guidance on health therapies and the claims to avoid if robust evidence is not held
Therapies (General)
Do you believe in hypnosis, counselling, therapy, prayer, meditation, mindfulness etc? Pranic healing and Reiki healing work along similar lines. Lots of hospitals in the UK and US and Australia have in house healers. Please google for confirmation. If it was complete crap, why would hospitals allow it. If something makes you feel good and better, where is the harm in it.
“Do you believe in hypnosis, counselling, therapy, prayer, meditation, mindfulness etc?”
STRANGE QUESTION!
healthcare should be about evidence, not belief.
Thank you, is counselling or therapy guaranteed to work. What is the scientific premise behind therapies, if it isn’t to work with and manipulate your mind and thoughts. Energy healing works similarly.
sorry, but you make no sense whatsoever.
P Relwani said:
No, you made the claim, you provide your substantiation. It’s not for others to do your work.
Hi Alan, I asked Bjorn Geir to provide confirmation of where he is registered as a medical doctor and bariatric surgeon. His reply suggested that he would ‘teach’ me how to do research rather than him provide the straight answer to the question.
LOL! Why come crying to me?
@Greg
I could of course have given you a link long ago but since you are not forthcoming with any information about yourself, then why should I help you? It is much more fun to have you find it yourself and see how clueless you really are.
It is unbelievable that you have not learnt to search the web yet? You seem to be able to write comments here and search for my posts on this blog so you can at least open a computer and should be able to use the internet. But you seem totally incapable when it comes to finding easily retrievable information such as my professional information. This is so strange. Are you unable to get help from your local librarian?
When I use the most common search engines, the third and fourth item that come up lead to one of the largest business- and employment-oriented social networking services. There you should be able to find the answers to your questions in my public profile.
I’ll give you one more hint. This one should be easy. Try letting the pointer hover over my “avatar” and see what happens. If you are smart enough it will lead you to the motherload 😉
Bjorn, you did ‘well’ to last as long as you have done on this blog (5 years).
You gave yourself away in the beginning but then your writing improved.
Most medical doctors proudly have their title before their name Dr. … You don’t.
Bjorn Geir Leifsson studied medicine at the University of Iceland but on which medical register is he on?
You have avoided answering this directly for a while now, and are still doing so.
I prefer a LINK to the Medical Practitioner Register where your name is.
Thank you.
I have decided to bin all further responses on this subject from you.
this has gone far enough!
Here are links to the different authorities where I am at present actively registered as a licensed medical doctor, surgeon and health care administrator. I am not sure what you want to do with these links as the registrations are in different languages probably foreign to you. As I said before, your local library might be of assistance.
https://helsedirektoratet.no/
http://www.socialstyrelsen.se/
http://www.landlaeknir.is/
he’ll want your grandmother’s marriage certificate next.
@Greg on Monday 04 September 2017 at 16:34
I googled and found Björn Geir in the first entry on the first page. Can I surmise that one of us is a dill?
I would like to point something out here regarding this thread and what it has become. It is no longer about investigating the viable effectiveness of pranic healing. It has become an egoic attempt at attacking each other’s personal belief systems. And take note that such an attempt is a clear message that the attacker feels their personal beliefs are being threatened. If you’re secure with what you believe there’s no need to defend or attack. This is where worthwhile discussion is found. If you believe it’s a hoax and aren’t open to anything else then no need to discuss. State your belief and carry on with your life.
not quite!
therapeutic claims require evidence.
for me, this is not about belief but about the lack of evidence for pranic healing
Do not forget the question of prior probability of efficacy, which is purely speculative in PH.
@Walker Martin on Tuesday 05 September 2017 at 17:59
“I would like to point something out here regarding this thread and what it has become. It is no longer about investigating the viable effectiveness of pranic healing.”
It has none; that much is crystal clear. My guess is you have an interest in this nonsensical witchcraft, most likely financial.
“It has become an egoic attempt at attacking each other’s personal belief systems.”
Medicine, and all science, do not involve ‘belief systems’. Belief systems belong in pseudoscience.
“And take note that such an attempt is a clear message that the attacker feels their personal beliefs are being threatened.”
“take note”? Oh gosh, the drama of it all! Again, belief systems are in the realm of pseudoscience, oh profound one.
“If you’re secure with what you believe there’s no need to defend or attack. This is where worthwhile discussion is found. If you believe it’s a hoax and aren’t open to anything else then no need to discuss.”
Such a simple and simplistic viewpoint. Is there any ‘worthwhile discussion’ to be had in some attempting to validate a form of supernatural non-medicine? Those who try to support nonsense must have their thoughts critiqued. While I am at it, it is the idea being attacked; no idea, concept, or belief is above analysis or criticism, except to relativists, seemingly such as you.
“State your belief and carry on with your life.”
With thinking like that, we wouldn’t progressed even to the Bronze Age.
@Walker Martin on Tuesday 05 September 2017 at 17:59
Are you this Martin Walker?
http://www.slingshotpublications.com/martin-j-walker
Ιf P.H was a lie the number of Pranic Healers will not be increased by thousands every day…Bad for you…I KNOW 🙂
Open your mind and you will see.
please learn about logical fallacies.
I’m a step ahead my friend… as a Greek I know Aristotle’s logic …
Mina
Open your mind and try to think.
@Mina on Monday 04 September 2017 at 19:49
If there are so many Pranic Healers and they are so effective, why do we still have doctors and hospitals?
When you can cure a cancer, any cancer, tell us then.
Υes there are a numerous of cases of cancer cure…the human body has the ability of self cure… when you clear the energy field deeply you can give a boost for the human body to be healed itself.
spontaneous cures have indeed been described – but this has nothing to do with energy fields. such talk is not only nonsensical, it is dangerous, in my view.
hahaha “spontaneous cures” make more sense to you than the ability of self cure that we all have?
Sorry… I am not interested continuing this discusssion…Sorry I rest my case!
excellent – except: you don’t have a case to rest.
@Mina
Please do tell.
What on earth is an ‘energy field’?! How do you ‘clear it deeply’? What is the precise nature of the ‘boost’ for the human body to heal itself?
If what you say has any basis in reality, why do people who practise/believe in pranic healing ever get cancer in the first place? Why do people ever die?
Ask yourself also, If there are so many doctors and medical care is based upon science, why are hospitals still full and sick people dying in huge numbers. Why hasn’t science found a cure for cancer then? On that basis using your logic, doctors are useless!
…AND LOGIC IS CLEARLY YOUR FORTE!!!
THOUSANDS EVERY DAY? I just whipped out my calculator. 2,000 x 365 =730,000 more per year. In 2 years, this would be nearly 1 1/2 million new practitioners. How many years has this been going on? At this rate, there will be over 3 1/2 million in 5 years!
You have not published the data that I provided
if you read my comment from earlier today, you will see this:
I have decided to bin all further responses on this subject from you.
this has gone far enough!
@Greg on Tuesday 05 September 2017 at 15:43
What gives you the right to demand information about others when you are anonymous?
Reveal your identity then you may have a case.
Pranic Healing is amazing….. but be careful of the healer.
If you need healing, get a great healer for pranic healing. Some healers are not certified so you must make sure you find a good, decent one. Many people are into the occult, but the prayers and meditations are all about God, Jesus, Holy ones, Saints etc. Master Choa Kok Sui was a Catholic when he was alive and the meditation is simply the Prayer of St Francis of Assisi who was a great healer himself.
Crystal Healing is weird to me, as I think why get an object to heal you. I don’t get that. But I have not done any research on that subject except in the Bible it states to stay away from crystal healers, sorcerers, witches and the work of the occultists. All of those will go to hell according to the book of revelations. Jesus’ own words. I, however, am a natural born healer and have learned the technique of Pranic Healing and I prefer it to Reiki but both are better than ‘Hands on healing’ and catching the disease yourself. I feel peoples pain and emotions and it’s not easy to deal with life in general being that way and so empathic. Pranic healing is amazing to me and has transformed my life and saves me getting sick all the time. I don’t charge for healings, so it’s not a trick and not a money making scheme, just a way to use our natural talents. And to help the community. I can heal the sick with the Divine energies but I have not raised the dead as yet….
Mary I think you mean Prank healing….like prank saviors and their crackpot followers.
Perhaps you should reduce your intake of locusts, gas-forming vegetables and LSD.
Good grief!
pranic healing is true.. i ahve been doing pranic healing since 3 years n in these 3 yrs i didnt visit a doc even gor caugh n cold or fever…. my life which has seen nly disasters aftr pranic healing saw miracles and succes…
i am afraid this is not evidence but anecdote
Do we have to prove everything scientifically for it to bring value and good to life . I have not studied Pranic healing but if it does good and helps some people is that not a positive ?
Just because something has not been proven scientificaly does not mean its of no value ..it just means we havent using our current methods found a way to proove it as yet.
That doesn’t mean its not useful !
Maybe it just means we don’t fully understand it yet ?
yes, in healthcare we need proof before making therapeutic claims.
What is your problem? If people are cured or getting better what is really your problem??What’s your loose? The problem is that the number of Pranic healers are increasing rapidly every day all over the world and this says something I think…. People DO get better without hospitals and drugs and this is your BIG problem… I personally don’t give a shitt about scientific proof if I have my own proof. 🙂
people do get better after all sorts of quackery – but that does not mean quackery is ok.
@Mina
“People DO get better without hospitals and drugs.” Spot on, Mina! Many or most diseases, real or imagined, get better without any kind of treatment at all. But we humans have such a strongly ingrained belief that every outcome must have a cause, we constantly seek explanations in something that occurred between the problem and the solution. (And we bother doctors for prescriptions even when they tell us it will go away with time.)
This huge propensity for self-deception is the basis of all superstitions (including religions, ‘the paranormal’ and pseudo-medicines). It’s harmless in most cases, but it can be dangerous — look here — and I personally think it would be a better world if we were all more able to distinguish ‘woo’ from reality. I find it unpleasant to discover I’ve been fooling myself.
This blog is just one of many websites that aim to support consumers and protect them from deceitful practices. How do you react when there’s a product recall of some kind? “I personally don’t give a shit about scientists telling me there’s risk of my TV bursting into flames. I’ve been watching the set for years and nothing bad has happened, so I have my own proof”?
By your own logic, Mina, masturbation and pranic healing are the same in terms of healing power. People that masturbate are undoubtedly increasing every day all over the world, faster than pranic healers even!
It means nothing of the sort, thankfully! It’s like saying cows can talk, but you haven’t met one such as yet…
@ST: I’m always curious as the “why” of an individual’s ‘belief’? As in religious convictions (and as Nietzsche pointed out: the most dangerous thing in the world is a man with a religious conviction) religious-affiliation, and I’ll contend Alternative-medicine health-care also can ONLY be arbitrary, and psychologically based i.e “my family was always Catholic or I knew a guy who’s sister had great results from a Pranic or Chiropractic etc etc”.
Not that most of life isn’t based on our inner paradigms seeking outer validation BUT why defend Pranic healing?
Do you vigorously defend Scientology auditing? Bach flower remedies? Reiki? Moxabustion? Upper-cervical Chiropractic? These and innumerable other pseudosciences are replete with gurus, devotees and capacious testimonials, just like Pranic methods. No facts, no proof no external data the “outside world” can use to adjudicate the wheat from the chaff. Nietzsche also pointed out if one religion is true then they must all be true…but if one is false they must all be false….since they all solely rely on revelation and metaphysical “insights”. Alt-Med is exactly the same.
Rationalists understand this intuitively….”believers” scoff at it and say “well MINE IS true….and you can’t prove it isn’t”. Illogic 101 has a lot of attendees.
I have been entertained by the partisan and non-partisan views here, but have a serious question.
My 21yr old son has a debilitating condition that he believes can *only* be treated by PH. He is resisting psychological treatment (which I understand makes treatment of that type less likely to work even if he does embark on it), which raises the issue that if PH teaches conventional therapy should be avoided then rather than being harmless (whether it works or not), causing him to reject (or fail) conventional therapy they are doing him real, potentially life-threatening, harm.
Conventional medical practitioners have not found a solution in 5 years, they have ruled out physical damage (such as nerve or tissue damage) and have come to a consensus that his issue is “most likely neuropsychological”. I have tried to get him to classify his condition as either psychological or physical which he refuses to do, as he thinks its a 3rd category (using PH language). In my amateur language I would describe his condition as trauma related, and therefore that his root condition is a form of non military PTSD. (I mention military because nearly all PTSD resources refer to that type for obvious reasons).
I am an engineer, and believe in following logic to find the most likely route to success. Ideally I would like to show him evidence (not opinion) that PH does (or doesn’t) work and with what efficacy, and likewise show him evidence that psychoanalysis and appropriate treatment does (or doesn’t) work and with what efficacy.
My personal opinion, being an engineer, while probably evident is irrelevant. It is his opinion that counts, and he needs to come to the conclusion that embracing psychoanalysis is his solution (if that is what the evidence shows), or I need to embrace the idea that he will get better with PH (if that is want the evidence shows).
I hope I have conveyed my request clearly – scientifically reviewed evidence of the efficacy of treatment for PTSD in both the psychoanalysis and Pranic fields, or either, or anything that is not a youTube video!
Sadly, your son has a condition which will only be “cured” by his own mind, that is, his ‘mind’ is the problem (whatever mental illness that is) and a lack of rationality will lead him to find a “cure”, despite it being totally irrational.
Also sadly, you are a professional in a area where rationality, reason and logic are the requisites for doing anything. I don’t say that as a criticism, only that you see with a clarity denied your child.
None of the stuff he thinks are possible cures make any sense; psychoanalysis was invented by Sickmind Fraud, Pranic is supernatural nonsense, and all of the other fields touted by sCAMmers are baseless nonsense. Medicine (that is, real medicine) isn’t perfect but it is always progressing and finding fault with itself.
I wish you well with tour, seemingly impossible, problem.
I started my journey of learning about Reiki in 2002 and then ventured further into Pranic Healing. I was told by one friend that i had joined a cult when i started my Reiki course. I was so concerned about it i spoke to my parish Catholic priest about this cult i had joined, and he said i need to continue learning about Reiki as the nuns practice this in the convents.
It changed my life and something that i started doing as a hobby, i eventually turned it into my career and am truly grateful for having all the knowledge that i have built up over the years today about natural healing.
If this form of healing resonates with you that’s wonderful, if it doesn’t then you are right.
I’ve actually trained as a Pranic Healer. I’ve personally had good experiences, but perhaps it’s a placebo effect. I think it can be a positive thing, if you use healthy skepticism. The meditations are a great way to de stress and that might help your overall health. At the same time, I’ve heard extraordinary claims that I’ve never witnessed. I’ve been told that it can fix near sightedness, but I’ve never seen it done and I’ve never met someone that’s been healed like that. So even though I’ve enjoyed some of my experiences in the PH community, I’ve also held a degree of skepticism. There are tidbits of wisdom in the teachings and it’s not exactly a cult. I was free to leave without anyone trying to manipulate me into staying. Also, they don’t ask you to abandon western medicine. They encourage you to do both, which may be to avoid criticism.
“I think it can be a positive thing, if you use healthy skepticism.”
I believe you just accurately defined ‘oxymoron’.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/338771037_Pranic_Healing_as_a_Complimentary_Therapy_in_Stage-4_Metastatic_Cancer-A_Case_Study
A.case study on the effect of pranic healing on cancer treatment
https://www.globalpranichealing.com/category/magazine/scientific-papers/
This page contains several scientific papers on the use of pranic healing in various circumstances.
Bruben Abraham,
I have just looked at the abstract of the first article. It included this sentence:
It should be obvious to anybody who has attended a basic course in statistics that the authors have no idea what they are doing and that any conclusions will be meaningless. I don’t think it is worth my time reading any further.
Occult science is different. It is foolish attempt to prove occult science through the eyes of science. It is based on faith which cannot be taught just like statistics.
If you really want to know about the efficacy of pranic healing objectively is to learn it and practice it for few months. Nothing else is acceptable. Even if scientific evidence is there to prove its effectiveness it will be a joke for you unless yo have a first hand experience. To be an effective pranic healer or reiki healer a person has to dedicate at least 3-5 years of practice and study. I have been doing it for the last 30 years. It has its limitations as well as wonderful possibilities that other systems do not have.
“If you really want to know about the efficacy of pranic healing objectively is to learn it and practice it for few months. Nothing else is acceptable.”
If you really want to know about the efficacy of my new pill objectively is to learn it and use it for few months. Nothing else is acceptable.
DO YOU NOW SEE HOW DAFT YOUR STATEMENT IS?
@EE
Professor…. the man is correct, you are the daft one.
Most medications produced via pharma have approximately 48% –65% efficacy rates (from the studies). It therefore has been proven they the meds will do what intended to so for SOME of the population, while not showing a benefit for others. Just because an FDA gave it a thumbs up doesn’t guarantee it will benefit everybody. How else to learn for whom it work benefit without experimenting personally ?
in this case, smoking has been proven not to cause lung cancer: my gran smoked heavily and did not die of it but of something else.
@EE
Thank you professor…. you make my case.
You use the word ‘objectively but you clearly don’t know what it means.
But please tell us about these limitations and how you know about them.
Isn’t that rather like saying that if you want to know about the effect of smoking on your health objectively you have to become a smoker?
By your logic there is no place at all for statisticians here, who don’t practice any form of healing or medicine. They simply tell us what the numbers mean.
I can only speak from my personal experience, but pranic healing helped me battle a series of “depressive” bouts last year triggered by a number of setbacks (being taken to court and being made redundant from my job of 10+ years among other things)
Before my first session I can only describe how I felt as heavy with negative emotions and overcome whenever I tried to explain how I felt. I went to counselling and found this did not work for me at all. I just couldn’t speak to the counsellor and when I did I left feeling really down after revisiting raw emotions I had been trying to bury. After my first pranic healing session I felt physically lighter and after several I felt like a completely different person which was echoed by close friends and family! I benefitted so much I have now enrolled on Pranic Healing level 1 to learn more and hopefully help others eventually.
My only advice to skeptics to try it out for yourself and see what it does for you. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain
Ashleigh said:
And there’s your problem.